Who is motion corp?

Toss it, since this was brought back up, I sent an email off to them requesting info on when their work with 22cans began and whether or not it was to be used in the game or if it was purely demo reel stuff. If I receive a response, I'll pass along any info I get, and if I get clearance, I'll share a screenshot of the correspondence (should it be anything worthwhile).

At least we have sparked something, when Lord Ba'al was pondering why there were no posts tonigt! The animation might not be much, but it was enough for me for a few nights at least! Would have hoped for answers for Spider's project though in steam forums though. Those were left unaswered for months, and for someone who is interested in the editor, will do so for months more.

This was my thinking too. Why they'd wanna be associated with 22cans' property, I've not the faintest idea though.

Directly from the "Producer"'s* keyboard on that one:  

steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618459405723860235/#c618459405724795046



Yeah, wouldn't want those actually working on the game to be exposed to actual feedback - there might be a repeat of Konrad leaking their duplicity with honest answers and details that poke holes into the narrative from Colin, Simon, and the other sweatshop managers.  The latter must have been too much for them to maintain and so they appear to have given up on the farce.

Bonus, their last post on the Steam Godus forum:

steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/620712999984612194/#c618463738386398714



It dates from Jun 4th - about the last time the 22cans website was touched and around when Dave left, and for Andy's claims everything that 22cans have shown us so far would suggest a rather shallow gameplay experience as they have provided to the core game itself.

I can understand why those who have some shred of integrity left after realising what kind of dodgy company they've been working for.  Fabs was one of those who did interact with the community when he was allowed to, and so that explains his blog post of excellent perspective from both sides of the farce 22cans have been playing - not just upon their customers, but their employees as well.  So your cynicism is hardly misplaced when that is exactly what 22cans have been doing so far.

*  - Apparently Godus has TWO Producers - Anthony Walker and Andrew Straub.   Fecked if I know what either of them have been doing, because from the updates they've shown this year they've appeared fake tits on zombies useless, and seem to be more of trying to keep Godus' development as obscured as possible by providing a fake narrative to the employees under their "direction".  Also see:  Yard Boss

Oh and Linked in show's he (Tim) left in September as well.

1.  Some of us used to be developers ourselves, or had the (mis)fortune at times to have worked on all sides of game development, like with publishers and outsourcing liaison for remote studios.  In turn, a number have experiences in a wide variety of game development, from the original free to play/donateware MUDs and their like, to shareware development of real closet indies.

This whole mess was made worse from the initial legacy of what PM himself built in the industry, and why all of this nonsense around 22cans is a shame.  The recommendations I once gave about PM have led some to participate in this, and I sometimes hear about it.  Then I get reminded to pay everyone here a visit to give my jaded view from industry experience with the information we're given.  The answer for what 22cans should do is really simple and yet they keep running away from it at every opportunity the community reaches out to them about it.

I would make a comparison between 22cans' website and Detroit, but Detroit's actually looking like it has a better future these days.  That is all them, and has been, and really suggests that they are barely able to keep the lights on, so to speak.  With that...those leaving the "ship" often divulge information to a number of sources, through a number of channels.

I will just put it out there that some developers, current and previous, have formed many channels of information over the years.  The routine fun around the old CRPG developers of the 80s and 90s was legendary - everyone was a "hating fan" "frenemy" and picked apart everyone else's stuff...but also loved it because it was something aside from their own work.  Amusingly enough, and for a hint to this apparent rambling, some have been given credit in work that they were not on payroll because of work they have offered to the developer - these are the indications of the developer acknowledging each other or someone else, as an extra-special "Special Thanks" credit.

2.  Video game press are all over this forum.  Some of us work with the press in some form, whether it be merely alerting on important bits as they happen or through more direct participation like collating up information dumps.  This blurs heavily between fans and developer participation.  

Media coverage is something that most developers actually WANT - if they have an amazing product, they're the new media darling like PM once was.

Avoiding media coverage is usually done when the developer has something to hide.  Otherwise they would be routinely offering information for the media and everyone else following to see...what they are working on.  Keeping secretive is  a sign used by the media along the lines of "PAY ATTENTION, THIS IS GOING TO BE GOOD!"

When these details have to be discovered otherwise, and to a degree that likely makes the updates for much of the last year into a farcical show, then it's not going to be pretty at all.  The natural reaction for the press is to show how 22cans have been deceitful again, and so there is no reason for 22cans to use press outlets aside from purchased PR puff-pieces.  They know they are hiding details with intent to deceive and that just speaks ill of them no matter how you can look at it.

Much like when the new CEO issued a total load of bollocks.

3.  After having been around the industry for some time, since the time when PM built up his fame, we have seen some examples in the industry of much better, much worse, and now another example of doing it wrong.  ~30 years of the industry is well enough to objectively put 22cans' development and performance otherwise to a fair evaluation.  In this, even fans are able to find reasons to facepalm at the indications and information we can discover through means...well, see number one.  Developers themselves have been teaching 2 and 3 how to get information about us and from us in a variety of methods.

On that note, Usenet would have sent 22cans all home weeping.

Everything he said resonates deeply with people who actually care about making games. Could not have had less of a contribution to what was written if you tried. 


1. Some of us used to be developers ourselves, or had the (mis)fortune at times to have worked on all sides of game development, like with publishers and outsourcing liaison for remote studios. In turn, a number have experiences in a wide variety of game development, from the original free to play/donateware MUDs and their like, to shareware development of real closet indies.


I'll be upfront in that my exposure to publishers has been limited, but I've worked with demands from Business to Business or technology developer partners and their demands have ranged from insanity to rational expectations. I based my initial thing on the fact that 'rank and file' developers tend to want to know about the stuff they're working on. Also, I used to do a fair bit on media/PR tracking (using stuff akin to Mentions/trend tracking) and would always update team members 'yeay we are on TIME website, everyone cheer! I SAID CHEER!' or watch over IGN/Reddit/Forum comment sections to see how community reaction was going. It's the nature of being a craftsperson - you're interested in how it is received. A good 'producer' should seek feedback on the consumption of the product - avoidance of this seems like a practice of willful or defensive ignorance. It'd be cool if you could even elaborate on your own experiences because it sounds like a wealth of information. 


This whole mess was made worse from the initial legacy of what PM himself built in the industry, and why all of this nonsense around 22cans is a shame. The recommendations I once gave about PM have led some to participate in this, and I sometimes hear about it. Then I get reminded to pay everyone here a visit to give my jaded view from industry experience with the information we're given. The answer for what 22cans should do is really simple and yet they keep running away from it at every opportunity the community reaches out to them about it.


Actually I want to comment on this from a POV; whilst doing game design mechanics and looking at even stuff like art design, many of PM's choices and directions are the logical choices in developing 'the God game', in that everything seems to feel like a breadcrumb trail of working game loops, good art decisions etc. I am more inclined to believe that something happened or that most of 22Cans, from their preproduction material, genuinely believed they were creating a God game for the fans/to meet fan expectation. Even PM's first inceptions of player agency matched to the genre, or developing the genre itself, seem to me like really inventive or innovative choices that feel 'right', but their sequels or attempts feel diluted - like BW1 and BW2 have such radical regression of mechanical goals over sequels. Fable is a great example of this too, the way that core mechanics seem to shoe-horn into established genres. I think Bullfrog and even Lionhead were great drivers of genre development. That does, in reality, provide the expectation from fans that their 'donations' would fund further innovation under the guise that freedom from publisher demands would have allowed PM to really push the boundaries on the stuff he wanted to create. None of which happened, which is where we are at.


I would make a comparison between 22cans' website and Detroit, but Detroit's actually looking like it has a better future these days. That is all them, and has been, and really suggests that they are barely able to keep the lights on, so to speak. With that...those leaving the "ship" often divulge information to a number of sources, through a number of channels.



Based on the number of people working on it, it's hard to say. I personally had a ton of faith in Konrad and other developers who'd come in as the seniors would have been leaving the project. I think speculation on their finances or ability to acquire investment is probably too far into the unknown. It's pretty safe to assume, as consumers, that we're not getting what they promised to build by a margin but the window for them to make an engaging game is still feasible. I guess?

I will just put it out there that some developers, current and previous, have formed many channels of information over the years. The routine fun around the old CRPG developers of the 80s and 90s was legendary - everyone was a "hating fan" "frenemy" and picked apart everyone else's stuff...but also loved it because it was something aside from their own work. Amusingly enough, and for a hint to this apparent rambling, some have been given credit in work that they were not on payroll because of work they have offered to the developer - these are the indications of the developer acknowledging each other or someone else, as an extra-special "Special Thanks" credit.



I don't have the experience you do (and you have a lot), but for example in Melbourne, our dev community is tight enough that we all know well or of each other - or we have acute awareness of what people in general are up to. I've personally experienced this a bit more at GDC-like events where people have some commonality with each other or sixth-degree of separation, so you can get that 'dev' feedback on your own work. Like recently, I was talking about systems and tech stuff with someone who was a programmer on Angry Birds and we exchanged some critical outlook on mobile/VR/AR, and I need to be able to respond to that. At PAX after hours Alexander Bruce (Antichamber) came in (we went to the same university/degree) and he voiced concerns about VR in a way that was blunt and could have been stinging but I appreciate that it happened - if we can't address the merit of our work to fellow developers (who are most likely to show empathy) then the fans will tear. that. shit. up. Even at this forum, the principle reason for community engagement is to have people reflect and say 'this is not going well'. I think the absence of 22Cans being active here is the result of the vitriol that has developed, but it is actually a fantastic resource none the less. Also R/gamedev - that's pretty handy too. 

2. Video game press are all over this forum. Some of us work with the press in some form, whether it be merely alerting on important bits as they happen or through more direct participation like collating up information dumps. This blurs heavily between fans and developer participation.



My Steam rage post was directly quoted by a press outlet at the height of Godus-Gate. I'm pretty aware that our forum activity can always be a part of the press narrative. That's a good/bad thing, depending on the product or conduct. It would, however, mean that developers back off when stuff is not going well. To be frank, someone (as you know) always has a boss or a PR/HR person that will outline their community facing communications. That's literally a part of developing media policy. I actually assume/guess that some of the 'guest' users could in fact be the developers venting, which would be a really human reaction. 

Media coverage is something that most developers actually WANT - if they have an amazing product, they're the new media darling like PM once was.


Yeah, 'if' they have it. If not, you do dodgy stuff and hope that people buy it - before ducking back down and hoping that consumers are fickle enough to buy the next round of stuff. Games are a luxury item and gamers, myself included, often have really terrible self-control on purchases. There is like a whole industry concept of bizz dev in mobile gaming based on this. It's why we had faith bubbles to click on, why we had cards, why we had gems. 

Avoiding media coverage is usually done when the developer has something to hide. Otherwise they would be routinely offering information for the media and everyone else following to see...what they are working on. Keeping secretive is a sign used by the media along the lines of "PAY ATTENTION, THIS IS GOING TO BE GOOD!"



100% - take note of, for example, XCOM2 has released preview builds a full month with no NDA. That's confidence. As consumers we can't fault that. 

When these details have to be discovered otherwise, and to a degree that likely makes the updates for much of the last year into a farcical show, then it's not going to be pretty at all. The natural reaction for the press is to show how 22cans have been deceitful again, and so there is no reason for 22cans to use press outlets aside from purchased PR puff-pieces. They know they are hiding details with intent to deceive and that just speaks ill of them no matter how you can look at it.


Like the Steam forums doing investigations on Godus Wars, whilst their Facebook/Twitter/Steam forums are barren of anything but community complaints of non-communication. Press on it is going to be interesting.


Much like when the new CEO issued a total load of bollocks.


I thought he meant well in damage control but I guess the community doesn't feel that way. I'd be hard-pressed to find discourse that deviates from the narrative that the statement bought them time/goodwill but it was spent over the course of the time leading up to now. 


3. After having been around the industry for some time, since the time when PM built up his fame, we have seen some examples in the industry of much better, much worse, and now another example of doing it wrong. ~30 years of the industry is well enough to objectively put 22cans' development and performance otherwise to a fair evaluation. In this, even fans are able to find reasons to facepalm at the indications and information we can discover through means...well, see number one. Developers themselves have been teaching 2 and 3 how to get information about us and from us in a variety of methods.



If any developer/ex-developer can make a case that 22Cans did anything on this 'right' I'd be genuinely really interested to hear that point of view. The senior staff leaving, the original members shuffling off, people leaving the games industry from 22Cans (like what the actual ****) are all things that are talking points among developers. Personally, I have more than just that $20 loss on a shoddy product to be angry about - they permanently poisoned the well of crowd-funding any God game for the future. Even looking at release methodology of God games in an analytical way, there is literally no option for anyone to make a solid business case to take a God game into crowdfunding directly because Godus is a referenced thing. Like 'we can't crowd-fund that because of Godus'. That's 22Can's contribution to game developers everywhere. Thanks for that. Even Universim had to release a statement to distance themselves from Godus/22Cans - when people talk about developer empathy, that goes both ways, they ruined the faith of consumers in an entire genre and the environment of which we can develop products in that release methodology. Might be an unfair assessment, probably talking a bit too much out of emotional investment. 

On that note, Usenet would have sent 22cans all home weeping.
I think RPS did that plenty well, regardless of how we might view their interview delivery on that specific article.