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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 6:34:00 GMT
Hey everyone! It is our first week back in Australia and we have been super excited to get our hands back into Genesis. I have brought you all a picture that you may find interesting! (keep an eye out on our twitter today for some extra content). I went around to the different teams and asked them what they had been up to. Here is our new update! The tech team have been making it so that the player can take over an NPC town. They have also been working to optimize the game loops so that some parts of the code will only run when they need to. They have also been getting the NPC's to decide what buildings they should build as well as integrating the demo assets into the game. The art team have been working towards iterations of a lot of the characters and now have one of the dolls rigged. They have also been working towards making some of the old animations work on the new dolls. They have also been working towards gaining good reference materials for particles that will be in the game. The design team were facilitating getting the prototype together as well as working on UI designs. They also spent their time helping the integration of assets and mechanics. Next week they will be building a basic outline of how the UI will function in game, as well as player initialization. Which will make use of the motion controls. This will hopefully be prototyped next week, so we can test the feasibility of it in game! Let us know what you are looking forward to seeing from us! Kind regards Petra!
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Post by idem on Apr 2, 2016 16:16:56 GMT
It's great to see all the progress being made! What are those UI designs like? I'm also very interested in what ideas or assets have been discarded so far. (and what the reasoning was)
The video on twitter showed a character with short limbs, a little bit like you might see in a more 'cute' cartoon style of animation and bodily proportions. Have you settled on this style, or is it still subject to change? Will the style of animation and the visual style of the human npcs be designed in tandem with the 'feel' you're going for in any story the game might have, or is story not yet on the radar?
Sorry, lots of questions all at once...
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Post by echocdelta on Apr 3, 2016 4:55:41 GMT
I can answer these!
The UI design is actually pretty interesting, surprising because they kind of came up with it themselves whilst I was away. I believe, I might be wrong because I have only observed from the outside of the process, that your UI is a halo above your head that appears when you tilt your head up - miracles appear and you grab a 'miracle' to cast it down onto the ground below. They seem to be going for the Zeus effect, but in terms of using 'physical' space, it seems really interesting and non-intrusive. It's early days and subject to my savagery in picking apart design issues, but it looks promising.
Ideas discarded so far, no fog of war - we added a villager exploration/memory system, so the NavMesh on the ground is 'scouted out' by villagers who plot their paths to the nearest resources. They don't know these routes until they're told to go somewhere, this might mean that the towns are aware of their surroundings past navigation - a town can 'see' the forest, but doesn't know how to get there until a pawn journeys to it. Think grey squares that turn green as a pawn begins to move across them, essentially carving a route for other pawns to use. So 'fog of war' isn't really a thing per say.
I know that idols are in, idol selection is in, the first ability to 'take over a town' is in (by slamming your idol down), the towns also grow or shrink independent of you - I think they ripped out my gesture draw miracle system and I had it noted down that people here didn't respond well to that anyway.
I can't think of any specific ideas that are discarded, I think I discarded the 'falling to Earth' intro sequence because it's actually horrible to drop people in VR. I think we're also still waiting on the engine to make headways for terrain sculpting, it's not discarded but we're totally focused on NPC town/God interactions. Champions and direct orders to pawns is basically on the fringes of being out - towns are currently sending people out to forests on their own, you don't really need to tell them to do that. Gameplay area is also too big right now - we have it around 2x2km with a giant mountain, it's not really working as well as I hoped.
For debugging we have a bunch of controls mapped to the controller buttons, but they're all going to go or be replaced. Also war, as an executed concept, is definitely phase 2 - we have the groundwork of how villagers gather and build now, we want to keep expanding on that to tighten up the growth, reaction and adaptation of NPC towns.
Character wise, the big headed characters were my suggestion and the art team ran with it. I wanted rag-dolled big-headed 'pawns' that would be contrasted by more realistic/grounded animation. They're not going to have cute animation sets, instead I wanted the player to be able to see/recognize them, for their profile to be visible at a distance and for them to die/be thrown in fun ways. They're subject to change, by adjustments and better stylization, but we needed the meshes to develop the animation sets. I think they sit, idle/chat, walk, run, plow and chop at the moment. I have a personal aversion to them doing anything cute, the buildings are remaining less cartoony, the landscape will be more stylistic (I think they're aiming for something similar to The Long Dark and Massive Chalice). Art direction might iterate, evolve, change but for the prototype it needs to be a constant reference point, so we can profile platforms, add VFX, check how many towns/villagers we can have and develop the tech/AI/engine stuff accordingly.
I actually think that we're going to find a mid-point between the Godus humans and the 'nubs' that our people call the puffy big-heads, which might be the best option. If people here want one or the other, we can adjust to that.
Animation sets will play a role in the feel or story, but the story might be more emergent. Story is currently definitely taking a back-seat but it's in scope, we just need to know what we have to facilitate a story before we think about the content. I think audio is in the same boat, we're thinking about audio but it's definitely far behind every other branch (audio people will hate this).
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 3, 2016 12:44:11 GMT
The UI design is actually pretty interesting, surprising because they kind of came up with it themselves whilst I was away. I believe, I might be wrong because I have only observed from the outside of the process, that your UI is a halo above your head that appears when you tilt your head up - miracles appear and you grab a 'miracle' to cast it down onto the ground below. They seem to be going for the Zeus effect, but in terms of using 'physical' space, it seems really interesting and non-intrusive. It's early days and subject to my savagery in picking apart design issues, but it looks promising. That to me sounds like a perfect way to implement a VR user interface for such a game! You look up and raise one hand to grab a specific power and then throw it down with a wave of your hand. For more powerful powers you might need to raise two hands and smite it down with two hands as well. Feels rather godlike, or at the very least it feels like you have power at your fingertips. Perhaps the halo could be seen as the edge of a palette from which you can select various powers and move them to the center of the halo to be mashed together by your hands. Maybe a second halo around the first one where you can store custom premixed powers. Okay I think I'm getting carried away. Not sure how all of that would work in a non VR environment, but I think it sounds pretty cool. Gameplay area is also too big right now - we have it around 2x2km with a giant mountain, it's not really working as well as I hoped. Perhaps the gameplay area could grow dynamically according to how far a player evolves? Start out with a small and very limited area for a player to focus on, then slowly grow it further giving the player more options and possibilities when they master the previous options. Or perhaps rather have the gameplay area expand when the NPC town grows which can only happen when the player plays well. I actually think that we're going to find a mid-point between the Godus humans and the 'nubs' that our people call the puffy big-heads, which might be the best option. If people here want one or the other, we can adjust to that. Perhaps the size and shape of the heads could be determined by the player to add a little bit of customization. Animation sets will play a role in the feel or story, but the story might be more emergent. Story is currently definitely taking a back-seat but it's in scope, we just need to know what we have to facilitate a story before we think about the content. I think audio is in the same boat, we're thinking about audio but it's definitely far behind every other branch (audio people will hate this). I'm an audio person. Or at least I used to be. I'm not disturbed by this in any way at all. Doesn't matter when it gets done, as long as it gets done properly eventually.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 3, 2016 12:47:56 GMT
Let us know what you are looking forward to seeing from us! Hi Petra. Good to see you guys are back! Regarding your question. How about that public Trello board or whatever it is you guys are using for project planning and progress tracking? Is that something that can be shared yet?
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Post by echocdelta on Apr 3, 2016 23:03:33 GMT
The UI design is actually pretty interesting, surprising because they kind of came up with it themselves whilst I was away. I believe, I might be wrong because I have only observed from the outside of the process, that your UI is a halo above your head that appears when you tilt your head up - miracles appear and you grab a 'miracle' to cast it down onto the ground below. They seem to be going for the Zeus effect, but in terms of using 'physical' space, it seems really interesting and non-intrusive. It's early days and subject to my savagery in picking apart design issues, but it looks promising. That to me sounds like a perfect way to implement a VR user interface for such a game! You look up and raise one hand to grab a specific power and then throw it down with a wave of your hand. For more powerful powers you might need to raise two hands and smite it down with two hands as well. Feels rather godlike, or at the very least it feels like you have power at your fingertips. Perhaps the halo could be seen as the edge of a palette from which you can select various powers and move them to the center of the halo to be mashed together by your hands. Maybe a second halo around the first one where you can store custom premixed powers. Okay I think I'm getting carried away. Not sure how all of that would work in a non VR environment, but I think it sounds pretty cool. Gameplay area is also too big right now - we have it around 2x2km with a giant mountain, it's not really working as well as I hoped. Perhaps the gameplay area could grow dynamically according to how far a player evolves? Start out with a small and very limited area for a player to focus on, then slowly grow it further giving the player more options and possibilities when they master the previous options. Or perhaps rather have the gameplay area expand when the NPC town grows which can only happen when the player plays well. I actually think that we're going to find a mid-point between the Godus humans and the 'nubs' that our people call the puffy big-heads, which might be the best option. If people here want one or the other, we can adjust to that. Perhaps the size and shape of the heads could be determined by the player to add a little bit of customization. Animation sets will play a role in the feel or story, but the story might be more emergent. Story is currently definitely taking a back-seat but it's in scope, we just need to know what we have to facilitate a story before we think about the content. I think audio is in the same boat, we're thinking about audio but it's definitely far behind every other branch (audio people will hate this). I'm an audio person. Or at least I used to be. I'm not disturbed by this in any way at all. Doesn't matter when it gets done, as long as it gets done properly eventually. 1. That first thing is legit, I'll pass that on. I think they did a good job on the UI, it was a really decent idea and seems to play out well. 2. Yes, I think this is good - we already can scale the player up or down depending on 'faith' and how many people believe (debug allows us to scale up/down at will, think Apocalypse) I'll pitch this at our folks over at engineering 3. Head 'mesh' is separate anyway; this is a non-issue and might be easy to impletentttt... ah yeah, the hats and helmets. Let me talk to our character artist(s) and get back to you. 4. Audio will get done properly, I have enough audio friends in the industry who would basically hate me if I side-lined audio as a secondary priority. It'll just have to wait for now.
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Post by idem on Apr 3, 2016 23:28:22 GMT
Thanks for the answers, I appreciate that!
That halo that you described, will you be able to grab spells from it without looking at it if you've memorized where on the halo they are?
How much will be possible in terms of facial expressions on the 'nubs'?
One general approach I'd have if emergent gameplay and story is the intent of the design is that you add more detail into the systems within the world than you think you'd need because the detail of the systems within the world determine how much CAN happen. The less detailed a system, the less ingredients for emergent gameplay or story. And this isn't just for gameplay systems, but also animation systems, facial expression systems, NPC generation systems (visualy), they all increase the options of what CAN happen. Pay close attention to No Man's Sky to see if they run into the problem of not enough being able to happen. Their entire design depends on it. And from what I'm seeing so far, Genesis may also heavily depend on it. Especially if the player is supposed to project their own meaning onto the nubs of the game world.
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 4, 2016 5:55:48 GMT
The UI design is actually pretty interesting, surprising because they kind of came up with it themselves whilst I was away. I believe, I might be wrong because I have only observed from the outside of the process, that your UI is a halo above your head that appears when you tilt your head up - miracles appear and you grab a 'miracle' to cast it down onto the ground below. They seem to be going for the Zeus effect, but in terms of using 'physical' space, it seems really interesting and non-intrusive. It's early days and subject to my savagery in picking apart design issues, but it looks promising. That to me sounds like a perfect way to implement a VR user interface for such a game! You look up and raise one hand to grab a specific power and then throw it down with a wave of your hand. For more powerful powers you might need to raise two hands and smite it down with two hands as well. Feels rather godlike, or at the very least it feels like you have power at your fingertips. Perhaps the halo could be seen as the edge of a palette from which you can select various powers and move them to the center of the halo to be mashed together by your hands. Maybe a second halo around the first one where you can store custom premixed powers. Okay I think I'm getting carried away. Not sure how all of that would work in a non VR environment, but I think it sounds pretty cool. SNIP.... I love the idea of mashing powers together to create a powers tree, with each new power costing the base powers added together to cast. That would create a natural evolution of powers and a choice that make it hard at the beginning to use them and easier as you collect larger quantities of "belief". You could even go down different trees with it for unique powers. I'm thinking similar to skyrims skills system imagine that above your head in a virtual word. Even the light side/dark side of powers could have worldly effects.
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Post by echocdelta on Apr 4, 2016 7:06:51 GMT
Quick side note, I'll write another answer when home, I hate that people call them Nubs. ****ing art team people squeezed that name through on their own. Nubs. I wanted to call them Pawns.
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Post by idem on Apr 4, 2016 8:50:01 GMT
I think it might be fun if different gods have different names for them, which says something about how they value them or not.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 4, 2016 9:30:29 GMT
I agree on the Nubs. If you're gonna go with that, might as well call them Nipples.
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 5, 2016 10:17:25 GMT
Eh, I liked gestures. Those were the kind of stuff you could do on the fly.
Could you try to propose spellcasting instead, like in "In Verbus Virtus"?
That's much better than a halo, after all - kinda like hotkeys.
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Post by echocdelta on Apr 6, 2016 7:39:41 GMT
I liked gestures too, we might find the happy point;
How do people feel about finding symbols, like signs, around the world that if you draw once you can unlock as a gestural power? You need to draw it, it unlocks, and maybe then 'collects' to the GUI halo above?
Ba'al I'm going to check feasibility of the mash-up of powers; I knew this was going to happen eventually, which is why I was proactive in having design change their path on 'wood can burn' into defining objects as 'can burn' or 'can x, can't x'. This means when, for example, if you were to mix electricity and fire, a 'pawn' is still defined as 'can burn, can electrified', which means an electrical fireball will still shock/burn a pawn - or anything else that can be set on fire or shocked. I *think* that we can lerp between two particle emitters, like a fiery lighting ball, or have two overlapping emitters running at 50% spawn rate (so a fireball with electrical sparks).
I'm using easy examples because this is basically a mechanic that would then impact bigger decisions, like if there was the ability to 'seed' a town (which right now there is a miracle that spawns a town wherever the ball lands for debugging) then what happens when you 'mix' fire and town spawn? Do you spawn really angry warrior town, or buildings on fire? Fascinating to explore this route.
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 6, 2016 12:14:09 GMT
I liked gestures too, we might find the happy point; How do people feel about finding symbols, like signs, around the world that if you draw once you can unlock as a gestural power? You need to draw it, it unlocks, and maybe then 'collects' to the GUI halo above? Ba'al I'm going to check feasibility of the mash-up of powers; I knew this was going to happen eventually, which is why I was proactive in having design change their path on 'wood can burn' into defining objects as 'can burn' or 'can x, can't x'. This means when, for example, if you were to mix electricity and fire, a 'pawn' is still defined as 'can burn, can electrified', which means an electrical fireball will still shock/burn a pawn - or anything else that can be set on fire or shocked. I *think* that we can lerp between two particle emitters, like a fiery lighting ball, or have two overlapping emitters running at 50% spawn rate (so a fireball with electrical sparks). I'm using easy examples because this is basically a mechanic that would then impact bigger decisions, like if there was the ability to 'seed' a town (which right now there is a miracle that spawns a town wherever the ball lands for debugging) then what happens when you 'mix' fire and town spawn? Do you spawn really angry warrior town, or buildings on fire? Fascinating to explore this route. Gestures for VR would be good, for controller or keyboard mouse not so much (if you're supporting those). I never liked the gesture spells in Black and white, not to say you might have better gestures! Also if I recall you could do it 2 ways, gestures or click on the temple\spell.
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Post by idem on Apr 6, 2016 13:42:31 GMT
Maybe a combination between gestures and the halo system (provided you can access the halo without looking at it. You can store a miracle on the left side of the halo, right side, or the middle (so it's easy to distinguish between grabbing the right, left, or middle miracle) which takes less time than making the gesture first. But there's thus very limited room on the halo. And perhaps the spells you carry on your halo also influence how the NPCs see you.
Also, those spells you choose for the halo might have passive effects...
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 6, 2016 17:25:26 GMT
What about letting people decide for themselves what gesture they would like to use for each miracle? I liked gestures too, we might find the happy point; How do people feel about finding symbols, like signs, around the world that if you draw once you can unlock as a gestural power? You need to draw it, it unlocks, and maybe then 'collects' to the GUI halo above? I think that could work. However, as far as I'm concerned the spells should not be easy to find. You don't want it to feel like a poorly executed hidden object mini game but more like a quest.
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Post by Spiderweb on Apr 6, 2016 19:36:06 GMT
What about letting people decide for themselves what gesture they would like to use for each miracle? I liked gestures too, we might find the happy point; How do people feel about finding symbols, like signs, around the world that if you draw once you can unlock as a gestural power? You need to draw it, it unlocks, and maybe then 'collects' to the GUI halo above? I think that could work. However, as far as I'm concerned the spells should not be easy to find. You don't want it to feel like a poorly executed hidden object mini game but more like a quest. If you do quests it like skyrims dragon shouts it could be cool, not sure how you would implement that in a god game though.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Apr 6, 2016 21:20:58 GMT
I'm just saying it shouldn't be like "hey there's a symbol, kaching!". A player should have to work for it, achieve some goals, maybe solve some puzzles. The goal of the puzzles should not be clear either. Keep it mysterious. Sort of like a treasure hunt where you don't know what kind of treasure you're looking for or where about to find it, or how many puzzle pieces there are. Frankly it should not be obvious that there is a quest or puzzle. You should be able to stumble upon clues here and there if you pay close attention and use some wits. Then slowly it becomes clearer that there is some kind of hidden quest and that there might be other clues to search for. Then later on when more clues are available it should become clearer how they fit together. Until finally BAM the riddle is solved and the prize is begotten. Nothing better. (coincidentally, I just finished watching National Treasure, I wonder if that affected my posting)
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Post by idem on Apr 6, 2016 21:38:10 GMT
I'm much more a proponent of having to work hard to master the use of miracles than having to work to find them or earn them in the first place. The latter makes it feel like a collecting game, the first makes it feel like a skill/strategic game.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 4:23:59 GMT
Let us know what you are looking forward to seeing from us! Hi Petra. Good to see you guys are back! Regarding your question. How about that public Trello board or whatever it is you guys are using for project planning and progress tracking? Is that something that can be shared yet? Good to be back we missed you guys! The public trello board will be a thing and it is in the works! We are pretty excited to make it a thing! I hope this answers your question!
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