Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Jul 17, 2014 23:38:38 GMT
In order to keep you all updated on the latest state of the game's development, I wanted to quickly let you know that we've pushed back the date for when we'll be releasing the Settlements revamp…but only very slightly. Originally we were looking at rolling out the Settlements revamp towards the end of this month, but we decided we wanted to squeeze a few more things into the update that we think are going to compliment all the other changes we've already included. We’re projecting that this new update will only be delayed by a week or so after we were originally intending to release this update. So what are we going to be working on in this final push? Take a look: - Localization - The game is finally starting to get to a point where it's time for us to look at getting all the existing content localized. So we'll be looking at all the text and in-game verbiage and getting everything translated for English (of course), French, Italian, German, Spanish, Russian, and Turkish. As I'm sure many of you can imagine, that's quite a bit of an undertaking but we feel it's an appropriate time to knock a good bit of this out, which isn't to say we'll be completely done localizing the game after this. We just have to do some catching up for where the game's current version is at.
- Bug Squashing - We also wanted to sort out some final remaining bugs before we pushed out this significant of an update, including the notorious 'crash upon exit' bug which I'm happy to report will be thoroughly squashed for when this revamp gets pushed out.
- PC-Specific Balancing - Another area that I'm happy to tell you about is that another focus area during that following week is for the team to get intimately familiar with the balancing of the PC build (which will include tons of straight-thru-playtesting). Balancing is going to definitely take a bit of a spotlight during this final phase of polishing up this revamp.
As always, we want to not only keep you updated on progress but to also let you know where the team's headspace is at (localizing, bug hunting, and PC balancing). Setting some additional time aside to give these three items priority will help make sure this next update is as solid an experience as we've been saying it is. As always, thanks for your patience; we're getting close now – very, very close indeed!
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jul 17, 2014 23:56:25 GMT
Soooo.... August?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 18, 2014 2:07:17 GMT
Why is there no Chinese translation? Turkish, really? Why this language and not the dozen other languages that are spoken in that region? It's not like a large percentage of the world population speaks Turkish.
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Post by Danjal on Jul 18, 2014 9:06:01 GMT
Why is there no Chinese translation? Turkish, really? Why this language and not the dozen other languages that are spoken in that region? It's not like a large percentage of the world population speaks Turkish. I suspect because there are fewer chinese people pushing for a translation than there are turkish people doing the same. China still likes to keep things within its borders on a global level. What I wonder though - given previous information and all that. What does this revamp schedule mean for the mobile release and the subsequent 'promised' refocus on PC. Are we still looking at a late summer/autumn shift? Is that being delayed? Is that off the table entirely? Are we still looking at a chunk of content between the settlement revamp and the next large sprint? Do PC players need to worry at all (the ones that haven't given up hope entirely already).
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Post by engarde on Jul 18, 2014 9:37:36 GMT
Give so few actual rendered text items I'm sure its more a matter of the helpum sounds that are the translation pain. I look forward to the English (UK) translation, hopefully that will remove helpum...
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 18, 2014 11:10:08 GMT
Matthew, sorry to give you a hard time in the face of you trying to be helpful, but why is it that 22Cans cannot deliver anything - ANYTHING - within the expected timeframe? This kind of thing is surely common early on in a project when everyone is finding their feet, but you'd think 22Cans would have figured out resourcing and budgeting by now and would be able to stick to delivery schedules. Also "a week or so" late is not very definitive. Is there actually a new release date you guys are working to? Is it REALLY going to be a week, or two weeks, or another month..? Does anyone even know?
The inability to stick to any deadline of any kind is a concern. And these are only small parts of 22Cans we see as customers. Surely there are business factors driving some of the internal deadlines - financial obligations to creditors and contractual obligations to publishers, for example.
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Jul 18, 2014 19:01:22 GMT
Matthew, sorry to give you a hard time in the face of you trying to be helpful, but why is it that 22Cans cannot deliver anything - ANYTHING - within the expected timeframe? This kind of thing is surely common early on in a project when everyone is finding their feet, but you'd think 22Cans would have figured out resourcing and budgeting by now and would be able to stick to delivery schedules. Also "a week or so" late is not very definitive. Is there actually a new release date you guys are working to? Is it REALLY going to be a week, or two weeks, or another month..? Does anyone even know? The inability to stick to any deadline of any kind is a concern. And these are only small parts of 22Cans we see as customers. Surely there are business factors driving some of the internal deadlines - financial obligations to creditors and contractual obligations to publishers, for example. The lack of providing a definitive date was, as I'm sure you might surmise, intentional. In most cases the deadlines changing around aren't a "whoops, we estimated wrong" but more of a "well, this one unexpected thing came up here and there and we'll want to sort it out". Sadly, there's many development studios rigidly stuck to their milestone deadlines (by rigid I mean to the day and sometimes even hour) and, come rain or shine, they typically hit these milestones regardless of whether the game is ready or not. 22cans, in a way I suppose, has the benefit of being able to say, "We had this deadline in mind but sliding the date back a bit will let us do what we wanted to do with this update." Usually when we're tossing around a date with the community it's just because that's what our current estimate is and we typically like to communicate that information as we get it from the rest of the team. But sometimes that changes and sometimes things happen. When things do happen, we update you on that as well. The alternative, I suppose, is that we keep mum about most of our projected time frames from fear of missing them by a little or by a lot. But meh, I don't like doing that when we can avoid it so we usually try to keep you up to speed on any time frames we're aware of, tentative or otherwise. Even if it means we run the risk of things changing down the road.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 18, 2014 20:21:17 GMT
Well this is just it. At 22Cans, some "unexpected thing" always comes up and pushes back the release date. Do you guys not build any contingency into your schedules? If so, when pieces over-run (which they do at 22Cans, 100% of the time) is there no lessons-learned process to reduce the risk of it happening again?
Basically I'm baffled that literally everyone in the whole community could have predicted that this deadline would not be met, except for you guys.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 18, 2014 23:28:37 GMT
Putting myself in the shoes of a coder, I would hate the question of "how long do you think it would take you to finish this piece?", or for that matter a remark like "you have X hours to finish this piece." Because unless it is something really simple that sort of stands on its own it is quite likely that at least one thing would pop up that messes up your planned execution. You would probably say that you can anticipate on this and build in some extra time in the planning, but when you're talking about a long sprint where lots of people work together that each have their own little tasks, there are a lot of things that could cause delays. I think it is a good thing to strive to not only get the job done in time but also to have a bit of time to spare. Keeping that in mind it makes sense to push the deadline forward a little bit so that you can strive to reach that deadline but even if you don't quite make it you would still have made good time in the end. I'm not surprised that projects don't make their deadlines in the software industry and in particular in the gaming industry. I remember a long long time ago I read in a games magazine about a project called TFX. (Tactical Fighter Experiment) It was in production and looking quite awesome at the time and it was just going to blow every other game in the segment away. It was expected to be released at such and such time. The time came and nothing happened. A year went by and sometimes you would read something about it but there was no game. I think it went like that for 3 or 4 years after the predicted release date. I'm not sure though, it might be faulty memory on my behalf. I'm actually not sure if the game was ever released. Let me quickly see if I can find anything bout it on wikipedia or something. Ah, here it is. A quote: Quite frankly I don't really care when a game doesn't meet its deadline. For me it is more important what the product is like when it is released.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 19, 2014 8:21:39 GMT
I'm sure I sound like I'm being completely unreasonable here, but in the back of my mind is the December 2013 PC update which makes me scornful about every deadline/release date 22Cans comes out with, and utterly unsurprised when they're consistently pushed back.
The December update, if we cast our minds back, did not happen until March. And at that point 22Cans admitted that actually a PC update had never really been planned at all for December. They'd been working on the mobile build while making those promises.
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Post by Danjal on Jul 19, 2014 8:31:14 GMT
Putting myself in the shoes of a coder... Putting yourself in the shoes of a coder - more importantly, putting yourself in the shoes of a business professional. If you miss deadline after deadline and milestone after milestone - sooner or later a lightbulb should light up and the thought should dawn that 'Hey, we missed it again, perhaps we're doing SOMETHING wrong here?' Whether it is incompetency on the coder side of not meeting valid deadlines, or incompetency on the planner side of not giving enough time but instead wanting to drive down a release ASAP. Or any other reason. The specifics aren't really important here. What is important is that if you've missed so many beats, you would imagine that you'd learn from that and adapt rather than trying to repeat the same old tune over and over? "Do you know the definition of insanity?"Simply refusing to give out any timeframe isn't the solution here. A business that can't keep a schedule is going to run into problems. Even if those broken schedules aren't made public. Just look at The Sims 4 for example, rumors are going around that the removal of pools and toddlers is so they can "scrap" a bunch of code out of the primary release because the AI just got too complicated. (And removing the whole interaction with water and the toddler phase means removing a LOT of animation and interaction). Which leads to thinking - what is Godus going to need to "remove" to make up for lost time, or how many more delays are you going to be looking at? Since as a business, you can't indefinitely keep delaying, sooner or later the money runs out...
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jul 19, 2014 14:50:35 GMT
And what's with the " reasons-i-can't-divulge-yet." crap again? Almost every time they say that, we either never really find out why, or it turns out to have to do with the mobile publisher - which is not a good excuse to the PC players.
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Post by engarde on Jul 19, 2014 19:23:29 GMT
Given that I am such a coder, irrespective of what I care about being asked the question, 'da management' having given a public announcement should still be able to issue something. The developers are still checkin in whatever is code complete allowing any old random tag to be used as the settlements push.
I'm in optin and frankly the 'we decided to add more vajazzle' statement makes we thing, whatever - give me the un-vajazzled version in optin then.
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Post by greay on Jul 19, 2014 20:44:04 GMT
Given that I am such a coder, irrespective of what I care about being asked the question, 'da management' having given a public announcement should still be able to issue something. The developers are still checkin in whatever is code complete allowing any old random tag to be used as the settlements push. I'm in optin and frankly the 'we decided to add more vajazzle' statement makes we thing, whatever - give me the un-vajazzled version in optin then. Seriously. When was the last release on the unstable/dev branch? ... May? What's even the point of having the opt-in branch, at this point.
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Post by engarde on Jul 20, 2014 14:11:23 GMT
More to the point what is the point of the non-optin, which is 123 builds behind the optin.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jul 20, 2014 15:30:01 GMT
More to the point what is the point of the non-optin, which is 123 builds behind the optin. I imagine half the 22Cans staff are asking themselves the same thing, especially the guys in finance.
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Post by distraction on Jul 21, 2014 18:53:00 GMT
To be honest I was expecting this for September 2013, we're nearly one year on from that date and now we get a 'revamp' which I'm not even sure is going to deliver on the issues and feedback we've been giving you since way back in the day.
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Jul 22, 2014 17:42:58 GMT
To be honest I was expecting this for September 2013, we're nearly one year on from that date and now we get a 'revamp' which I'm not even sure is going to deliver on the issues and feedback we've been giving you since way back in the day. I'm not sure I follow. The game came out on Early Access in September 2013. It got funding in December 2012. Releasing the final game in September 2013 would mean we'd have only been working on the game for about 8 months.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Jul 22, 2014 18:30:51 GMT
8 months? Why, that's right in the 7-9 month timeframe 22Cans claimed the game would take on Kickstarter!
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Post by distraction on Jul 22, 2014 18:50:47 GMT
To be honest I was expecting this for September 2013, we're nearly one year on from that date and now we get a 'revamp' which I'm not even sure is going to deliver on the issues and feedback we've been giving you since way back in the day. I'm not sure I follow. The game came out on Early Access in September 2013. It got funding in December 2012. Releasing the final game in September 2013 would mean we'd have only been working on the game for about 8 months. 22cans' Kickstarter clearly states September 2013 as delivery date... Follow now?
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