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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 2, 2014 0:04:41 GMT
Haha, juicy! There is a thread on here somewhere about funding, and I thought the CMs commenting in that one was odd. Clearly, it goes further than that!
I think it's apparent that part of the problem for them is the severe negative reaction the game has received from the very people that supported the project. That can't have been anticipated, not on that scale. Peter can talk on and on about how it isn't finished yet all he wants, that's just doing nothing but reinforcing the idea that he doesn't actually understand the critiques leveled against the game and makes him sound tone-deaf, in my opinion. So there's that. Whatever the particulars of the deal they locked in with the publisher is also something that has definitely affected development, so there's that, too. Going silent and putting out the new 2.0 version with much aplomb and apologies, with FTP mechanics and excuse my french, but fucking sticker crap all over it, well, again, I think it's clear that they didn't at all anticipate the overwhelmingly negative reaction to those changes.
I think a very real danger for them is, they've already put off those who would be the biggest fans of the genre, and the biggest selling point for them, consumer word-of-mouth/goodwill - is a no-go. Whatever the particulars of the development foibles are, it'd probably make for one entertaining read some day.
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 2, 2014 0:06:44 GMT
I have been pretty quiet and played really nice, but please don't spin the money we backed. This is BS pure and simple we backed because we were promised X and you all are providing Y.
I don't care about how long it took over, that was your fuck up. We backed for one thing and 22cans could not do it so they changed their game plan and are making something totally different and so it cost them a ton more money. Not my problem. You asked for money to kickstart X and I gave it to you, much much more as a matter of fact. Shit happens and I get that but please don't insult my intelligence with spin. Just admit what happened and make the best version of Y you can and we shall take it from there.
Justifying the money just pisses me off all over again when I had just got to that acceptance stage. Please, really, don't even try it. I'm not buying it, Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I patiently await to see what the finished product will be, but you still will not have done what you promised in the kickstarter because I NEVER would have backed any version of any F2P game. EVER!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 8:35:15 GMT
is someone able to translate this from samvt to german please ?
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splitterwind
Master
Posts: 149 
I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on Aug 2, 2014 9:35:35 GMT
Rough translation to german: Matthew bei allem respekt du bist nicht in der Position um darüber zu sprechen. Wenn dann wäre ich es, wenn man bedenkt das ich teil vom Kickstarter war und für eine beträchtliche Zeit bei 22cans gearbeitet habe, aber selbst ich bin nicht in der Lage darüber zu sprechen (Finanzen, wer wann 22cans finanziert hat). Aber falls das was du sagst wahr ist hast du damit der übereinstimmenden Meinung Recht gegeben das Godus viel, viel zu spät daran ist insbesondere wenn man bedenkt das September 2013 als Termin zur Fertigstellung angegeben wurde. Sieh hier für mehr details: www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creator+questions. Ganz offensichtlich ist das nicht der Fall. Ok, ich verstehe. Es ist noch in „Beta“. Aber in diesem Fall hättet ihr ein von Anfang an einem späteren Termin zur Fertigstellung angeben müssen. Das habt ihr nicht getan. Du schnatterst ständig darüber das es etwa 2-4 Jahre benötigt ein Spiel zu entwickeln (Genauso wie George). Leider scheint die Community vergessen zu haben das Peter Lionhead verlassen hat weil er die Möglichkeit haben wollte Dinge rasch zu ändern ohne das ihm ein AAA-Studio im Nacken sitzt welches er erst langwierig überzeugen müsste etwas zu ändern, wo er Wochen investieren müsste für etwas das wenige Tage benötigen sollte. Link vom April 2012: www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-11-peter-molyneux-why-i-quit-microsoft-and-why-my-new-game-will-change-the-worldSo, bei Allem Respekt. Ich weiß das du angestellter bist und das Sprachrohr der Firma darstellst mit den beschränkten Möglichkeiten die dir gegeben sind aber ich selbst bin ein High tier Backer und ich fühle mich nicht im geringsten Glücklich über die bisherige Entwicklung. Also bitte fang nicht an über Geld zu reden und wie es in den ersten 10 Monaten investiert wurde um eine Beta zu entwickeln die in dieser Form NIE erwähnt wurde. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 9:39:35 GMT
It is very interesting how SamVT has become active again. I wonder where this leads but I also hope he keeps himself safe. Entwined in all this funding talk is the issue of what constitutes a BETA, ALPHA or as Peter outrageously coined a GAMMA release. I feel like this language has been twisted to justify 22Cans actions and different attempts at gathering funding. If the Steam Early Access version was actually a BETA in the sense that most of us understand it (I'm talking connotation here not denotation) then that would have been a version with 90% of the features set in stone and only in need of tweaking. Had such a build been released as a fulfilment of the kickstarter promises I think that would have been fine. However the build that was undercooked and worse 22Cans obviously didn't consider it complete and have since walked back many of the mechanics and features. More telling is the fact the game is still in flux today with a huge settlement revamp coming and hubworld/Jupiter almost of out of sight at this point. They've also shifted to this infinite development path where the game will never be done. I actually like the idea of infinite development as done in Kerbal Space programme. In that case the basic game is there and they are just tinkering with it and extending it. If that's what 22Can eventually end up doing with GODUS I think its completely appropriate but I suspect Peter will use the infinite development approach to push GODUS as complete when it is not and then say everything else is icing on the cake rather than something we owe you. I agree with Sam and others, there is a glaring inconsistency between what was pitched/promised/shown during Kickstarter and what is in evidence now. ZETA RELEASE™ -------> OMEGA RELEASE!!!!!!!!!!111!!111ONE™ |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 22:43:17 GMT
It is very interesting how SamVT has become active again. I wonder where this leads but I also hope he keeps himself safe. Entwined in all this funding talk is the issue of what constitutes a BETA, ALPHA or as Peter outrageously coined a GAMMA release. I feel like this language has been twisted to justify 22Cans actions and different attempts at gathering funding. If the Steam Early Access version was actually a BETA in the sense that most of us understand it (I'm talking connotation here not denotation) then that would have been a version with 90% of the features set in stone and only in need of tweaking. Had such a build been released as a fulfilment of the kickstarter promises I think that would have been fine. However the build that was undercooked and worse 22Cans obviously didn't consider it complete and have since walked back many of the mechanics and features. More telling is the fact the game is still in flux today with a huge settlement revamp coming and hubworld/Jupiter almost of out of sight at this point. They've also shifted to this infinite development path where the game will never be done. I actually like the idea of infinite development as done in Kerbal Space programme. In that case the basic game is there and they are just tinkering with it and extending it. If that's what 22Can eventually end up doing with GODUS I think its completely appropriate but I suspect Peter will use the infinite development approach to push GODUS as complete when it is not and then say everything else is icing on the cake rather than something we owe you. I agree with Sam and others, there is a glaring inconsistency between what was pitched/promised/shown during Kickstarter and what is in evidence now. Inconsistency is in everything they did and said since the kickstarter campaign began.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2014 22:58:20 GMT
The key to flexibility is indecision. -Anon
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Post by banned on Aug 3, 2014 0:48:26 GMT
and any idea how you will fullfill the Kickstarter phisical items? We already have. No, 22cans has not. I received 1 of 2 tshirts. So... like the no cash shop claim, sorry, this is bullshit. |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 10:19:11 GMT
No, 22cans has not. I received 1 of 2 tshirts. So... like the no cash shop claim, sorry, this is bullshit. If you send in a request to Support@22cans.com, along with details of the e-mail address with which you registered for the game and the pledge level at which you backed the project, I'd be only too happy to fix that for you as soon as is humanly possible. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 16:16:24 GMT
any News about how many Money is left?
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Aug 4, 2014 16:21:13 GMT
any News about how many Money is left? That's not information we're obliged to disclose, I'm afraid. |
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 4, 2014 16:30:56 GMT
any News about how many Money is left? That's not information we're obliged to disclose, I'm afraid. This type of comment I can respect. It is a business after all. |
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chrism
Master
Posts: 113
Pledge level: El cheapo Believer
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Post by chrism on Aug 4, 2014 16:37:24 GMT
I have been pretty quiet and played really nice, but please don't spin the money we backed. This is BS pure and simple we backed because we were promised X and you all are providing Y. I don't care about how long it took over, that was your fuck up. We backed for one thing and 22cans could not do it so they changed their game plan and are making something totally different and so it cost them a ton more money. Not my problem. You asked for money to kickstart X and I gave it to you, much much more as a matter of fact. Shit happens and I get that but please don't insult my intelligence with spin. Just admit what happened and make the best version of Y you can and we shall take it from there. Justifying the money just pisses me off all over again when I had just got to that acceptance stage. Please, really, don't even try it. I'm not buying it, Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I patiently await to see what the finished product will be, but you still will not have done what you promised in the kickstarter because I NEVER would have backed any version of any F2P game. EVER! +1 apart from the 'I have been pretty quiet and played really nice' and the 'I patiently await'. In fact if folk hadn't believed in PM and bought in for more heavily than I, I'd wish 22Cans would just shut the doors and walk away. How some at 22 sleep at night beggars belief. Spin, turd polishing and total bollocks. |
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Post by muumipeikko on Aug 6, 2014 0:04:35 GMT
I personally think 22Cans is in a deep hole and I feel very sorry for them as starting a business is a brave step into the unknown and very hard with a quite high probability of failure.
You simply don't move all your developers off a product to focus on another if it's selling like hot-cakes so I personally don't think the Steam sales were good. The excuse was they had to develop the mobile platform contractually but imagine for a second Steam was generating a fortune week after week, would you move production over to mobile and kill that golden egg laying goose or would you hire a bunch of contractors to work on the mobile app all paid for with significant interest by that goose?
Spare a though for poor Brian, I doubt the post man has bought him much good news from Guildford!
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Post by earlparvisjam on Aug 6, 2014 1:46:22 GMT
I personally think 22Cans is in a deep hole and I feel very sorry for them as starting a business is a brave step into the unknown and very hard with a quite high probability of failure. You simply don't move all your developers off a product to focus on another if it's selling like hot-cakes so I personally don't think the Steam sales were good. The excuse was they had to develop the mobile platform contractually but imagine for a second Steam was generating a fortune week after week, would you move production over to mobile and kill that golden egg laying goose or would you hire a bunch of contractors to work on the mobile app all paid for with significant interest by that goose? Spare a though for poor Brian, I doubt the post man has bought him much good news from Guildford! My thoughts on how things have played out in focus: I think that 22Cans saw the writing on the wall after people reviewed the Early Access release. It was so universally reviled that they knew the sales were going to dry up. Rather than continue to flail around with the pc version until things were better received and risk the very likely potential of going under, they turned to mobile. It became clear right away that the whole setup wouldn't work well on either platform so they rebuilt it from the ground up, focusing mostly on refining mobile functionality. By March, they had it working well enough to compile on both platforms pretty stably so they pushed out 2.0 to pc. It was touted as a revamp of features but reeked of reconstruction; a book of cards was now a line of cards, pseudo-pvp was removed and voyages added (probably faster, easier to redo, and less resource intensive), bubble clicking was transformed into clicking and dragging, a number of features were removed. They kept working on the mobile version, working toward releasing it and periodically pushing a pc build whenever it would compile and run stably. The push to get mobile released and shore up finances is what we're in the middle of right now. If they can get mobile to a reasonable point, they can ease back and actually try to make something the pc market will like, or at least accept for the time being. The only changes to have happened since March have been bringing in new community liaisons and letting them flail around for things to keep the existing community from rioting. Unfortunately, these liaisons don't have much to work with and have been hampered with unfulfilled promises from development and even more embarrassing public interviews that have done little but to stir up dissatisfaction. For example, the opt-in build is a great step forward, but requires developers to actually push out their unstable developer builds frequently or it's nothing but a target dummy. Should the mobile release continue to flounder, it's clear that all we've been told will go out the window and it's doubtful this project will last much past next March. We know the Kickstarter money was gone by last September. The last 11 months have been entirely from Steam EA, whatever DeNA gave them, and the trickle they've gotten from the limited mobile release so far. To believe this project has the backing to keep over 22 people employed much longer than next spring is faith bordering on fanaticism. They've already spent more than twice what they asked for on Kickstarter... |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 6, 2014 8:59:21 GMT
Spare a though for poor Brian, I doubt the post man has bought him much good news from Guildford! Actually I have a feeling that Brian has already made quite a penny so far even though he hasn't actually had to play for it. The longer it takes 22Cans to release the full game, the longer Brian will be "in power" and the more he'll make from it. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 6, 2014 12:10:57 GMT
If it's a cut of profits he gets, then not so much. 22Cans haven't made a penny of profit on Godus.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 6, 2014 13:11:57 GMT
If it's a cut of profits he gets, then not so much. 22Cans haven't made a penny of profit on Godus. Cut of profits or cut of sales. |
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jpw
Master
Posts: 159
Pledge level: Patron+Acorn+Poster
I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
Stickers
Sculpting
Voyages
Managing settlements
Not being a god in a god game
Chests
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Post by jpw on Aug 6, 2014 15:27:24 GMT
...Should the mobile release continue to flounder, it's clear that all we've been told will go out the window and it's doubtful this project will last much past next March. We know the Kickstarter money was gone by last September. The last 11 months have been entirely from Steam EA, whatever DeNA gave them, and the trickle they've gotten from the limited mobile release so far. To believe this project has the backing to keep over 22 people employed much longer than next spring is faith bordering on fanaticism. They've already spent more than twice what they asked for on Kickstarter...
Have I missed something, has the mobile release really floundered? I just checked the NZ apple website here and they have over 778 reviews, and 197which are from the latest version. They are averaging at 4 stars.
Now on the face of it that seems good [doesn't it], but then it is a f2p game. I suppose I would like to know how many people are playing the mobile version regularly, and how many are investing in the f2p ingame purchases - since I assume that is currently their only source of revenue, also assuming the steam sales are now insignificant? Or have 22canns found someone to advertise in their mobile game? It is interesting to note how different the reviews are, on the whole, for the mobile game than the PC game. Maybe it's time simply to admit the PC version won't work as it is, focus on making a money spinning f2p game and as far as PC games go either start again, or look at another project/experiment, Peter has already suggested he has something else in mind. I think some frank and honest statements about the PC situation, the mobile market, and the financial situation would go a long way, even if it is disappointing news.
Alternatively:
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Post by hardly on Aug 6, 2014 19:33:27 GMT
Its been a long time since mobile was updated which is surprising giving the stability issues that a couple of us forum users have identified. I assume the big PC update which is coming (next week?) will presumably hit mobile at a similar time. It's funny because we had this whole conspiracy theory that 22cans were neglecting us for mobile but now who are they neglecting mobile for?
In terms of the reviews the scores remain quite high (keep in mind they are asked to rate the game very early) the written reviews have started to turn negative. As I've said there are some significant bugs with mobile and the cash shop that I have personally experienced and in surprised these have been allowed to fester.
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