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Post by Deth on Aug 15, 2014 11:45:21 GMT
I'm glad you approve of my ideas, and to be fair, I'm only taking inspiration from this forum before posting. I'd have never come up with what I just came up with in isolation. Involvements with others is important for creativity, and that's why we need the people of the forums to give their feedback. But the feedback that's been driving me has been the crazier ideas, not the complaints. This is a great place to vent, but don't use up all your power negatively. We've had some of the best discussions on this board since the mood changed from "don't like"s to "would like"s. I say, keep it up, and don't ever think that something might be too technically hard. I am a coding god, and so is Gary, there is very nearly nothing we can't code if we put our minds to it. “The difficult we do immediately. The impossible takes a little longer.”—Motto of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers during World War II, according to The Home Book of American Quotations Which is why I think we like your ideas. Your listening to us and building off our ideas. I know I do it a lot my self when I read through the forums. Other peoples ideas spark my ideas. Which is where I think you differ from Peter. He only has HIS ideas and thinks we are not world renowned designers like him so our ideas could never live up to what ever he comes on his own.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 15, 2014 11:49:24 GMT
I'm glad you approve of my ideas, and to be fair, I'm only taking inspiration from this forum before posting. I'd have never come up with what I just came up with in isolation. Involvements with others is important for creativity, and that's why we need the people of the forums to give their feedback. We've been screaming about developer - backer interaction since forever because of just this reason. Just look at what ideas have been generated since you decided to step in here and bounce ideas back and forth with us. On that note, have you asked Peter and Jack to read through this thread yet like you said you would? If so, what was their response?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 15, 2014 11:52:12 GMT
By the way, sooner or later (if not already) somebody is going to come along this thread and read these ideas and think this thread is a gold mine and snatch up and implement them. If that happens it'll be too late for Peter.
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Post by dozvati on Aug 15, 2014 11:54:18 GMT
I'm already pitching half of these ideas to my creative partner. Watch out for Goddess, releasing 2k25
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
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I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
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Post by Raspofabs on Aug 15, 2014 13:22:05 GMT
I'm glad you approve of my ideas, and to be fair, I'm only taking inspiration from this forum before posting. I'd have never come up with what I just came up with in isolation. Involvements with others is important for creativity, and that's why we need the people of the forums to give their feedback. We've been screaming about developer - backer interaction since forever because of just this reason. Just look at what ideas have been generated since you decided to step in here and bounce ideas back and forth with us. On that note, have you asked Peter and Jack to read through this thread yet like you said you would? If so, what was their response? I've not heard back yet. Though that is to be expected: Peter is away at the moment.
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Post by dozvati on Aug 15, 2014 13:47:24 GMT
Apparently I put this in the wrong thread; If you never let us zoom out more than we can now, at least let me fast travel to settlements. I can fast travel to the Astari! Should be feasible, right?
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Post by Danjal on Aug 15, 2014 13:48:06 GMT
Why in the world aren't you part of the design team? If you're proposing this stuff, it must be within the realm of possibility on some level given your work. I mean this sounds right up Peter's alley of supposedly crazy game ideas. I'm flattered you like my ideas, but I'm part of a team, and really, most of these ideas are dreams, not useful stuff. A good designer is someone who can come up with off the wall stuff that gels with the existing game, extends it without alienating people, and doesn't lead us down a path to a local maxima of design potential. The reason we don't let coders design things, is that they only come up with minecraft about 1% of the time. The rest of the time its daikatana. Wait wait wait - "Extends it without alienating people" Dude... I do believe the path you've been going down has successfully alienated pretty much 99% of your original backers and supporters and even now there are more and more negative mobile reviews popping up. I'll agree that not every idea is feasible - but many ideas ARE. And the ideas that are currently driving Godus aren't exactly making it a great game.
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
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Post by Raspofabs on Aug 15, 2014 14:29:34 GMT
I'm flattered you like my ideas, but I'm part of a team, and really, most of these ideas are dreams, not useful stuff. A good designer is someone who can come up with off the wall stuff that gels with the existing game, extends it without alienating people, and doesn't lead us down a path to a local maxima of design potential. The reason we don't let coders design things, is that they only come up with minecraft about 1% of the time. The rest of the time its daikatana. Wait wait wait - "Extends it without alienating people" Dude... I do believe the path you've been going down has successfully alienated pretty much 99% of your original backers and supporters and even now there are more and more negative mobile reviews popping up. I'll agree that not every idea is feasible - but many ideas ARE. And the ideas that are currently driving Godus aren't exactly making it a great game. I still believe that Peter and Jack (and Jamie) can turn it around. For one thing, the pressure to get a mobile version of the game out there, is now gone. What we do in this moment is going to be critical in getting back on course towards making a great game. What we do now, is not going to be the same as we have done before, it can't be. And by we, I mean all of us, not just the people sitting inside the 22cans office. We want a change to core mechanics in the paid version, now is the time. We need to realise we do have a common goal. Sometimes, and I believe this time, the means will justify the ends. Oh, and here, have another idea: iPhone one off IAP - convert the temple of discovery into a pit of doom - switch to Desktop timers and costs
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Post by Danjal on Aug 15, 2014 14:50:12 GMT
I have my doubts that you can truely turn it around. On the basis that you'd have to scrap so much of the base mobile game and have to remake it for the PC instead.
Which is exactly what happened when 22cans went silent for 5 months between v1.3 and v2.0 release. You'd have to scrap so many features and completely rework them - are you saying that you are going to do just that?
Or are you saying that you're going to build on top of the mobile structure and add more PC oriented features? I'll not hold any promises to this, I just ask your personal opinion or expectations. You already mentioned you are not one to have much (if any) say in these matters. So I'll will take your words as an observation alone.
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Aug 15, 2014 15:19:10 GMT
I have my doubts that you can truely turn it around. On the basis that you'd have to scrap so much of the base mobile game and have to remake it for the PC instead. Which is exactly what happened when 22cans went silent for 5 months between v1.3 and v2.0 release. You'd have to scrap so many features and completely rework them - are you saying that you are going to do just that? Or are you saying that you're going to build on top of the mobile structure and add more PC oriented features? I'll not hold any promises to this, I just ask your personal opinion or expectations. You already mentioned you are not one to have much (if any) say in these matters. So I'll will take your words as an observation alone. My personal opinion? I think that scrapping things and rewriting them again is fun, and probably not as much work as you think. Doing the UI rendering overhaul (performance improvements that made the UI run fast enough on mobile) and developing all the new server stuff (again for mobile) took quite a lot of man hours. We'd have a lot more coders free to work on any gameplay features now, so I'd estimate even a complete mechanic redesign wouldn't take more than a couple of months. That's code side however, dependent on what the mechanics changes involve asset wise, I think the art department might try to kill you.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 15, 2014 15:49:16 GMT
Hmmm, I guess I'll take your word for it, since you have more experience in that particular field. =) I wonder how much 'art' would need to be redone, considering if you'd be building on top of the existing systems they'd have to make new artwork regardless. I suspect a lot of the existing artwork and assets could be used/reused even if the mechanics get altered (example: The mining animation is already there)
Oh - feature request: proper roads/waypoints and improved pathfinding. I want to be able to make 'prefered' routes for my followers to walk along if I have them travel long distances (currently applicable to the pit of doom but likely usable for a variety of other mechanics later) and I want the pathfinding to have a "If I'm standing still for longer than 30 seconds, calculate different route" type deal so followers stop blocking eachother untill I as a god step in and tell the one from the left to "stop" and give the one from the right free passage.
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Post by rubgish on Aug 15, 2014 17:01:12 GMT
Fabs(); do you have any idea if it would be feasible to move away from square plots to at the very least space-filling mono-level plots? I'll probably be writing my next installment of my feature request epic this evening and I really want to be able to have that as a part of it (because it makes everything else so much better).
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 15, 2014 17:40:10 GMT
Hmmm, I guess I'll take your word for it, since you have more experience in that particular field. =) I wonder how much 'art' would need to be redone, considering if you'd be building on top of the existing systems they'd have to make new artwork regardless. I suspect a lot of the existing artwork and assets could be used/reused even if the mechanics get altered (example: The mining animation is already there) Oh - feature request: proper roads/waypoints and improved pathfinding. I want to be able to make 'prefered' routes for my followers to walk along if I have them travel long distances (currently applicable to the pit of doom but likely usable for a variety of other mechanics later) and I want the pathfinding to have a "If I'm standing still for longer than 30 seconds, calculate different route" type deal so followers stop blocking eachother untill I as a god step in and tell the one from the left to "stop" and give the one from the right free passage. Having some experience in graphics, I think it could be swung to utilize (repurpose) existing artwork - current or older "scrapped" graphics. Much the same with the "core" framework; given some creative thought while keeping within reasonable terms, there's a lot that could be done on top of what exists. I like the idea of designated "paths", for your followers to journey on; sort of a holy pilgrimage idea. By repurposing the totem and the path abilities, they could create a "Holy Pilgramage" feature; designate a new land area to settle (totem), and then trace a safe path there - and then select the abodes you want followers from to follow the path. This would save having to leash great distances, which has been a bit tricky to do well with scrolli g the screen edge in the current system (often results in leaving the windowed edge which drops the leash too soon). Of course, other than long distance leashing, it's more of a convenience power than anything, not supplying much in the way of any significance in gameplay.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 15, 2014 17:42:46 GMT
Fabs(); do you have any idea if it would be feasible to move away from square plots to at the very least space-filling mono-level plots? I'll probably be writing my next installment of my feature request epic this evening and I really want to be able to have that as a part of it (because it makes everything else so much better). Were not the original plots circular, or was that just a graphic/visual thing in the prototype (by 'original' I mean pre-steam)?
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Post by morsealworth on Aug 15, 2014 17:55:25 GMT
By repurposing the totem and the path abilities, they could create a "Holy Pilgramage" feature; designate a new land area to settle (totem), and then trace a safe path there - and then select the abodes you want followers from to follow the path. Creating predesigned paths isn't exactly a new idea, but, no doubt, is a good one. Take Dune Emperor for example if you need.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 15, 2014 18:12:15 GMT
By repurposing the totem and the path abilities, they could create a "Holy Pilgramage" feature; designate a new land area to settle (totem), and then trace a safe path there - and then select the abodes you want followers from to follow the path. Creating predesigned paths isn't exactly a new idea, but, no doubt, is a good one. Take Dune Emperor for example if you need. Exactly, nothing new, thus - if it makes sense as a feature - it shouldn't be hard to conceive or implement; and it's dualities of function and theme satisfies the "God Game" requirememt of influence (it is essentially a 'direct control' feature, but designating it as a holy pilgrimage via God's desires relegates it as a divine inspiration/motivation). BTW: I played the heck out of the Dune series. Good times.
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Post by hardly on Aug 15, 2014 19:52:21 GMT
At the risk of being a spammer I'm just going to repost some of my old ideas over here to save me retyping them. As I explained in my original post some of them were inspired (read stolen) by other peoples posts so if you see your idea in this list remember imitation is the sincerest form of flattery •Priests, temples and such - I think priests collecting belief and taking it to a central building (church, temple, mosque, etc) that automatically beams that belief into space is great. I read it somewhere on the forums and its a good idea. This will be an automation of the belief collection that also adds variety to what your people do. •Mountains are for mining - One of the reasons people flatten all the terrain is because (1) we have to hit population limits and (2) there is no benefit to mountains. Mountains should be for mining (low mountains for stone perhaps and high mountains for ore), you should only be able to mine at a certain altitude. This will encourage us to leave/build high points for mining. I'd consider starting the map of flat and incentivising the player to build mountains for their people. A mountain could also boost the belief/happiness of the nearby people e.g. Mount Fuji. •Forests are for chopping - Same as with the mountains we strip the forests to clear land (probably the scarcest resource in GODUS) for expansion. We need to make forests cool. What if our people could be taught to sustainably harvest forests? What if forests were needed for building? What if we could grow forests with our powers? What if when we grew a forest it changed the way our followers worshiped us? •Optimal altitudes - We want a varied map so we need all the terrain types to have their own purpose, if we can get say five different terrain types/heights that all interact with different resource collection mechanics that would really incentivise creating an interesting environment - sand/beach could be for fishing, plains for sheep, grass for grain, and higher terrain for mining. •A real science system - One of the biggest complaints is about stickers. Stickers aren't actually that bad except for how we get them and how they are used. GODUS needs a science system. I suggest in the early ages priests also produce science which can be spent on "stickers" which can then be applied to different cards in the timeline. The timeline obviously needs to be reworked to make it less linear and to add choice but for now if you could get rid of the chests and make our followers build the stickers that would be a start. •Great projects - In 1.3 it seems 22Cans felt we had too much belief, so to prevent us flattening the planet they reigned it back. If you want to soak up some belief then for a start make it so belief doesn't generate out of game, then give us some things to use it on other than expansion. I suggest great projects that look awesome and give us a small bonus somewhere but are more cosmetic than gameplay related. I'm thinking the great pyramids of giza, Notre Dame, the acropolis, the colossus of Rhodes type stuff. They would take a long time to complete but unlike some of our current timers there would be no limit on the amount of people dedicated to the task. So like 4 weeks of gameplay time with one person, but with 672 people it would take an hour. These projects would soak up manpower, resources and belief. There could be achievements for the people who build them first or build the biggest one in the case of a pyramid. Oh GODUS this is starting to sound a bit FTP. I just think that if you could look out and see some great works that have been constructed in your honour it would make you feel like a powerful god. Obviously there should be bonuses as well and these could carry over into some of the multiplayer games as well perhaps as long as it can be balanced. Belief is used in the construction of these because you need to inspire your people to build this symbol of your power. •Take off the limits on belief and sculpting - You need to make sculpting cheap so we can do more of it and you need to make it easier. Reduce the cost of sculpting or increase the rate of belief generation. Also to make sculpting easier add in the option of holding the mouse to raise land or lowering it. That way it will be easy for us to make mountains. Give us multilevel sculpting early in the game. The challenge shouldn't be to expand across the map (that is why you have limits at the moment), the challenge should be to make an awesome civilisation. If we have varied terrain, great works, farms, mines, more professions, fountains and heaps of stuff to balance along the way then you wont need to hold us back from levelling the whole map. •Fountains (and other gifts) - fountains are actually a cool idea but the way they were suggested by 22Cans is crap. No clicking on fountains. If we build fountains with belief that is cool although a stone resource requirement would enhance it. Once its built it should be automated (this goes for pretty much everything in GODUS please never have click, wait, click, wait, click for anything) with follower visiting to get the water they need. You could keep the happiness mechanic or you could do something else (see below). •Self upgrading dwellings - Caeser and SimCity both have the idea of self upgrading dwellings that evolve as the infrastructure around them improves and as people get access to desirable resources. With fountains, and other improvements you could go down the path of having dwellings improve as the population get access to improved resources and services. Its an idea that is done before but it is a good one. godus.boards.net/thread/220/constructive-design-ideas-godus
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 15, 2014 20:09:17 GMT
All fundamentally great ideas. Sadly they've been suggested infinitesimally since Alpha, and we don't even see hints of them ever existing. We can't even get them to say if they're either possible or potnetial ideas they'd consider implementing.
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jpw
Master
Posts: 159
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I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
Stickers
Sculpting
Voyages
Managing settlements
Not being a god in a god game
Chests
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Post by jpw on Aug 16, 2014 6:30:25 GMT
What we do in this moment is going to be critical in getting back on course towards making a great game. What we do now, is not going to be the same as we have done before, it can't be. And by we, I mean all of us, not just the people sitting inside the 22cans office. We want a change to core mechanics in the paid version, now is the time. We need to realise we do have a common goal. Sometimes, and I believe this time, the means will justify the ends. This is crucial, and a promising statement, but is this realisation shared by the persons in charge?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Aug 16, 2014 9:09:32 GMT
What if there was something like the pit of doom that had uncertain results? I mean not just one possible outcome of marching somebody in there but several. For example, follower gets reincarnated into a hero or an angel or a priest or a fierce animal. Perhaps based on some hidden attributes in followers with a bit of random thrown in. Most would probably just die. But it would need to be made harder to march people in there so people couldn't just march a 1000 followers in and get all kinds of benefits at once. Perhaps a lengthy farewell ceremony for each person who is "chosen" to march to their end.
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