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Post by Danjal on Aug 21, 2014 16:10:14 GMT
Which is exactly why I do not believe that a 'PC sprint' will ever happen.
They'll throw us some scraps from the iOS pile.
Like the balance thing, enable us to do the work ourselves.
And then go back to their DeNA deal and polishing the mobile turd.
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feanix
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Post by feanix on Aug 21, 2014 16:17:10 GMT
Basically, I agree with Danjal on most of his points.
We are making an amount of money that's greater than $0 but it's not £infinity either. We don't really know what it will be, these things are hard to predict. Personally, I'd be satisfied if we break even and make a bit extra every months so I can still has jerb for a while.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 21, 2014 16:19:51 GMT
Basically, I agree with Danjal on most of his points. We are making an amount of money that's greater than $0 but it's not £infinity either. We don't really know what it will be, these things are hard to predict. Personally, I'd be satisfied if we break even and make a bit extra every months so I can still has jerb for a while. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be scared or worried. =P I do hope you can continue to have your 'jerb' for a while though. |
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feanix
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Post by feanix on Aug 21, 2014 16:20:49 GMT
No that anyone will believe me (  ) but PC sprint is real, I have seen the designers in meetings about it and heard them talking about ideas but I can not reveal said things because nothing has solidified yet. I am sure sooooomeone will say "lolol 22cans propoganda at it's finest" and I'm okay with that. I'm just going to leave this here, you guys can do what you like with it. Peace.  |
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feanix
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Post by feanix on Aug 21, 2014 16:21:39 GMT
I do hope you can continue to have your 'jerb' for a while though. Muchas gracias, señor. |
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 21, 2014 16:26:41 GMT
I believe 22cans is working on a sprint, I just worry about them being allowed to afford to finish it.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 21, 2014 16:28:26 GMT
Yeah, I don't doubt that the intent is there. Pure speculation on my part, but I'd guess that most of the people working on the game would much prefer to work on an engaging, deep title instead of turning their work into a generic ftp title.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 21, 2014 16:30:18 GMT
No that anyone will believe me ( ) but PC sprint is real, I have seen the designers in meetings about it and heard them talking about ideas but I can not reveal said things because nothing has solidified yet. I am sure sooooomeone will say "lolol 22cans propoganda at it's finest" and I'm okay with that. I'm just going to leave this here, you guys can do what you like with it. Peace. All I have to say about this is that I do not so much question the intent of doing a PC sprint as much as I question that it will garner the results that I (we?) would like to see from such a measure. I think that it would be prudent to establish a level of understanding here of what approximately will be the intent of said PC sprint to create a better expectation of what is to come. Based on the information currently available to me, I've pretty much concluded that the PC game as it was originally described (and as we'd like to see it) is unlikely to happen. I've also established that the priorities within 22cans right now very much lie with the mobile game, since that effectively is your primary source of income. Making it essential to focus a portion (be it large or small) of the company on expanding the content for the iOS release of Godus. As such it makes sense that any content release/designed for PC needs to be compatible with iOS aswell. Or needs to be able to be easily altered to suit that goal. It also makes sense that the decision to release self-management tools like the balance mechanic is done for this very reason. Allowing 22cans to focus on Godus while PC players can focus on Godus-PC. So when I say that the PC sprint isn't real - I'm basicly saying 'its not the miracle cure we are waiting for'. Since 22cans can't afford to let go of the iOS progression, like it did with the PC before. (As this would directly put all your 'jerbs' in jeopardy.) I do hope that George, Matthew or anyone else that does have the authorization and information to do so will inform us post-haste on what we can expect from the upcoming PC sprint. And I do hope that some of the suggestions we've been giving with regards to expansion of content will be taken into consideration regarding this endeavour. |
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feanix
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Post by feanix on Aug 21, 2014 19:56:13 GMT
**snip** It coco-nuts. I've stopped trying to predict what they'll like because I think PC gamers just cannot understand them at all. Thats for sure... These people have VASTLY different interests and desires. Which is one of the things we've been saying from the start when Peter / 22cans claimed that they are making a game that *EVERYONE* can enjoy. These interests simply do not mix. As a bit of personal interest - you say she's burnt through all the content and is just expanding on her existing status? Could you provide me/us with some specifics, like did she unlock all the cards or leave any of them out, what is her total amount of followers/wheat/ore registered on the bars. Also, could you perhaps ask her what she would like to see in the game (as she seems to be the very target audience that Peter is going for right now...) See if she's interested in a little thought experiment to find out what SHE would want from the game. I agree with you that this behaviour is very interesting to observe. While I personally dispise the actions that companies take in effectively exploiting these people. The people themselves and their behaviour is fascinating. And I'd very much love to find a midway path to have my own interests and that of people like your girlfriend join up. I can only conclude that given Peter's own desires and visions this is a MUST if we ever want Godus to become anything like what we'd enjoy. But as you point out, these people just play the game and do their own thing, they don't really look on the internet for reviews and such - so its really hard to get their input on this. If you can provide us (and indirectly Peter and 22cans as a whole) with any significant insights on this. About what she'd like to see (or absolutely wouldn't like to see). That'd be very much appreciated. I think a very big question there is (since that to me seems to be the most obvious solution to the current balancing problems) - what is her stance on resource requirements. Would she find it bothersome of her followers would need wood and/or stone to build and expand? Or would she prefer the game to stay as it is, a very simplified mechanic. Qetesh - Actually... She IS the majority when it comes to mobile games. What feanix describes is the very target audience of most mobile games. People that just play for their own reasons not caring a thing about the world around them. She effectively won't get 'bored' and as long as she keeps playing she'll occasionally drop money in the bank. Multiply that by hundreds, thousands or even more players and you get a steady stream of income. While she might not be the 'big money' whale spender. The whales are a minority in terms of audience (even if their expenses make them a significant portion of income). A business is all about reliable and consistent income. If a whale drops out, you lose a large portion of income, if a small spender like feanix ' GF drops out, there's thousands more fish in the sea like her. Okay, my gf has agreed to answer some of your questions in more detail: She hasnt got all the cards. Particularly the ability to sculpt 5 because sculpt 3 was too difficult to control. She has 1299 wheat, 254 ore and 3670 followers and thats rapidly growing. About what she would like to see I'll quote her exactly: "It's a bit difficult to say without knowing whats coming. I'd like to know more about the Astari, I'd like to know more about the gems in the ground. It's good that I have you [that is, me, Feanix] to explain what they are because if you hadn't told me I wouldn't have had any idea what they were. I'd like to be able to name my followers and follow them and get a better understanding of how they interact. I'd like to be able to track my followers because quite often when you build they go in and then someone else comes out. I'd like to be able to group the farm plots and mine plots so that it looks pretty. I hate the sticker system, I would find a better way to do that or make it simpler. The amount of time it takes to unlock a card is ridiculous and the packs of stickers you can buy are unhelpful because you don't know what's in them. You can spend a fortune on them and still unlock them only 6% which is crazy. Also, the beacon system is really good for unlocking new land but it's frustrating how long it takes to mend the beacons and you can't even throw money at it to make it go faster because it's limited to eight builders or something. The only other frustrations I have are with what I assume are bugs in the system so I can only assume they will come good in the future. [in particular she's referencing opening gem chests and not actually getting the gems and also building farmer villages and not getting any farmers coming out of them] In spite of all that I really do love the game and I will keep playing it." Anyways, that's how she feels. I've literally just typed out what she's said. Obviously she's my gf so she's going to have some bias, even if it's subconscious but I've don't my best not to ask leading questions. She mentions she's never played any other games and enjoyed them this much and she isn't just playing it to keep me happy. I hope this is interesting to you guys! And be nice, she's my girlfriend. If you say mean things about her I will murder you with a cheese grater. |
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Post by Deth on Aug 21, 2014 20:03:40 GMT
Honestly I can respect those options from a non-gamer looking at Godus as a mobile game. That is about what I would expect the average mobile Godus player would say. It would be interesting to compare what comes up in my thread from the more "hardcore" PC gamers vs more mobile gamers.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 21, 2014 20:03:57 GMT
Pretty sure you can name followers with one of the gifts (though I don't know if that one is available on iOS) *just checked to confirm, on PC atleast the rename gift DOES work on followers aswell as settlements, just go into the info tab for the follower and click the little pencil if its the same.*No tracking ofcourse. And thanks for the followup feanix - Its interesting to see that some of our frustrations (cards/stickers and expansion beacons) are also noted by 'the other side', in this case your GF. Grouping resource plots together to make them look better (and perhaps work more efficiently?) is a surprisingly good suggestion if you ask me. It sounds to me that (like our very own Qetesh) she'd like a bit more Sims in her Godus, having the individual followers get more personality and perhaps have them form actual bonds and families. Bugs and upcoming content are just a thing ofcourse. Again, thanks for the followup. (Now to find more guinea pi... testsubje... mobile players and expand our reference pool...) Deth - I agree, I have no problems myself with mobile players and understand that they have inherently different interests. I just wished more developers/companies would acknowledge this rather than grouping all "gamers" together. =D |
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feanix
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Post by feanix on Aug 21, 2014 20:27:50 GMT
Also, she would like to add that the followers needing to get extra resources like wood and stone would be extremely bothersome. Everything already takes too long. She enjoys the simplicity because it means she can play for a few minutes here and there, out and about, and get a few things done in that time.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 21, 2014 20:32:20 GMT
Pretty sure you can name followers with one of the gifts (though I don't know if that one is available on iOS) *just checked to confirm, on PC atleast the rename gift DOES work on followers aswell as settlements, just go into the info tab for the follower and click the little pencil if its the same.*No tracking ofcourse. And thanks for the followup feanix - Its interesting to see that some of our frustrations (cards/stickers and expansion beacons) are also noted by 'the other side', in this case your GF. Grouping resource plots together to make them look better (and perhaps work more efficiently?) is a surprisingly good suggestion if you ask me. It sounds to me that (like our very own Qetesh) she'd like a bit more Sims in her Godus, having the individual followers get more personality and perhaps have them form actual bonds and families. Bugs and upcoming content are just a thing ofcourse. Again, thanks for the followup. (Now to find more guinea pi... testsubje... mobile players and expand our reference pool...) Deth - I agree, I have no problems myself with mobile players and understand that they have inherently different interests. I just wished more developers/companies would acknowledge this rather than grouping all "gamers" together. =D What's funny is that, while I don't consider myself a casual gamer (definitely core, just not hardcore uber competitive esports pro type), I do like the small Sims-esque touches that let you get in NPCs heads a little more. It's probably why I played Animal Crossing longer than thirty minutes to an hour, I for some stupid reason liked figuring out what was up with the other townspeople. It extends even more to stuff like talking to almost every NPC in RPGs and scanning everything in Metroid Prime. It's one of those small things where I like to gather up all the info I can to figure out more of the world or find some extra stuff. Same line of thinking that led me to build out cities in sectors in stuff like Age of Empires II way back when. Here's the residential sector, the R&D sector (i.e. universities/blacksmiths), the military sector, etc. It's never necessary to arrange your base that way, but that's what I always aimed at (and why I sucked in multiplayer). It's kind of a weird pseudo-RP mindset, I guess, toeing the line between going in-character and maintaining your distinct player perspective. Also, she would like to add that the followers needing to get extra resources like wood and stone would be extremely bothersome. Everything already takes too long. She enjoys the simplicity because it means she can play for a few minutes here and there, out and about, and get a few things done in that time. The funny part is, with current balancing, she's totally right. Given how other resources have been introduced, her response isn't terribly surprising. |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 21, 2014 20:36:29 GMT
Also, she would like to add that the followers needing to get extra resources like wood and stone would be extremely bothersome. Everything already takes too long. She enjoys the simplicity because it means she can play for a few minutes here and there, out and about, and get a few things done in that time. Hmmm, to be expected. Please note that the way I'd envision it, the resources would effectively "replace" the timers. Timers are just random numbers ticking down with no clear progression or reasoning. Resources (managed by the followers) would not be utterly random. Infact, if done well it'd take *less* time. Not more. (I agree that it already takes far too long right now and this is a measure I imagine to counter that as it would allow more direct control rather than random number scaling.) But yea, I expected as much. This style player does seem to prefer to have as little complication as possible, just sit click and observe. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 18:35:05 GMT
Also, she would like to add that the followers needing to get extra resources like wood and stone would be extremely bothersome. Everything already takes too long. She enjoys the simplicity because it means she can play for a few minutes here and there, out and about, and get a few things done in that time. I would like to mention that it's entirely possible to add more resources without adding them to the timer system. This is where Godus has the opportunity to add depth. Resources that are gained by other means and used for other purposes would add depth and meaning to the game without adding to the "Oh, fancy that, another timer hoop to jump through" groan factor. |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 22, 2014 18:55:15 GMT
Also, she would like to add that the followers needing to get extra resources like wood and stone would be extremely bothersome. Everything already takes too long. She enjoys the simplicity because it means she can play for a few minutes here and there, out and about, and get a few things done in that time. I would like to mention that it's entirely possible to add more resources without adding them to the timer system. This is where Godus has the opportunity to add depth. Resources that are gained by other means and used for other purposes would add depth and meaning to the game without adding to the "Oh, fancy that, another timer hoop to jump through" groan factor. Resources are infact meant to do the exact opposite. Rather than an artificial barrier where you have to sit and wait (or pay a fee), you are entirely reliant on your own resourcefulness and that of your people. A hut takes X hours to make turns into X wood/stone to make. The time needed to supply these resources is entirely dependant on your own playstyle and followers. Did you flatten and remove all stuff? Well you're gonna have a harder time. On the other hand are you very efficient? You'll have resources plenty. Its easy enough to make the base AI smart enough to do an adequate job - and from there its up to the player how much you want to tweak and push the system. Not at all more complicated for casual players yet still adding depth for advanced players. With the complaint being "we have to wait too long" from both sides of the fence, finding an adequate solution seems essential. You just have to implement the solution in such a way that you don't need a college education to apply it. Which really is NOT that hard to do. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 18:58:35 GMT
Which really is NOT that hard to do. Completely agree... unless you have a publisher calling the shots. |
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feanix
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Post by feanix on Aug 23, 2014 13:47:02 GMT
Publisher is not calling the shots. Srsly.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2014 14:28:06 GMT
Publisher is not calling the shots. Srsly. I appreciate the clarification. 4real. |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 23, 2014 15:55:45 GMT
Publisher is not calling the shots. Srsly. Then how come you keep getting all these bad reviews? You'd imagine that Peter would like to see positive reviews about his games? Not just negative ones? As such you'd imagine he'd listen to the people that are trying to tell him whats wrong with the current game and make changes accordingly? |
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) but PC sprint is real, I have seen the designers in meetings about it and heard them talking about ideas but I can not reveal said things because nothing has solidified yet. I am sure sooooomeone will say "lolol 22cans propoganda at it's finest" and I'm okay with that. I'm just going to leave this here, you guys can do what you like with it. Peace. 
