Tracking mobile

There's something lost in translation here though. A lot of PC gamers inherently hate the design behind F2P *MOBILE* games specifically.
Because this kind of design is done with specific kinds of playstyles in mind.

This is to say, these PC players do not want to have F2P mobile style games being sold on the PC as if they were PC games.

The hatred towards F2P then transcends that hatred towards mobile games because there's also another layer around it.
Which is the abusive F2P games on PC, games that have been inherently designed to wring every single penny out of its players, games that at their core are not designed to be enjoyed.
But that are designed to break your gameplay up with microtransactions.


But much like F2P games on PC aswell as with mobile games. In both camps there are good examples aswell as bad ones.
The good ones just are rare, VERY rare... Maybe one in every dozen is even remotely interesting. And one in every dozen of those is actually *good*.
Mobile games are even worse because making a mobile game is ridiculously cheap compared to making a PC game, there's less risk involved relatively.

That all comes down to a certain expectation when it comes to these kinds of games.
Does that make these games inherently bad? No, it doesn't...
But it does mean that these games have their *own* place within the market.

Just because a game can be good - does not mean that *EVERYONE* has to like the game and play the game.
I for one choose NOT to want to play mobile games. This isn't because all mobile games are inherently terrible - this is because *I DO NOT LIKE* playing mobile games.
Which is something that Peter seems to miss entirely.
He jumps up on his defensive box and shouts "BUT MOBILE GAMES AREN'T ALL BAD!!!" - I don't give a fuck. I still don't want to play them because I don't care about the style of game.


Peter started his campaign describing a certain product. A product that he claimed would be released on a variety of platforms and would perform a variety of functions.
Halfway through development - either because they found out that certain features weren't possible or because they found out that one of these platforms would be less profitable than initially expected - they decided to drop support to that platform to all but the barest minimum of necessities.

People don't hate Godus because its a mobile F2P game. People hate Godus because they originally were promised something vastly different from a mobile F2P game.
They were promised oranges and now they're getting peanuts. And they are told that they have no right to complain because:
 1 - Peanuts are 'delicious', why wouldn't you like peanuts?
 2 - They have a lifetime subscription to peanuts, and perhaps one day these peanuts will become more like oranges.
 3 - As a child Peter used to be bullied because he liked peanuts and everyone else liked oranges, now its happening all over again and Peter is a sad sad monkey.

If I was peter I would be recognising that every can is an asset. Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas so why not exploit the ideas of the whole team. The fact that some members of the team aren't actively involved in design probably explains why the designers have failed.

No offense to you two, and I have no idea what you two do for a living, but from my perspective what you're commenting on here is kind of nonsense. 

Most jobs have defined parameters.  You work within those parameters.  Things outside of those parameters are not only not your responsibility, but in most situations that I can think of, adding your input would really only muddle and slow the process.  I get to do a lot of storyboarding for a living, for example.  I have no control over whatever script I'm being paid to storyboard, nor does the writer probably give a shit on my critique on his/her work.  My responsibility is clearly defined - take the script and lay out the visual narrative.  After that, that's it, man.  I'm not the director, I'm not the editor, I'm not the cinematographer.  And none of them want the storyboarder or the sound guy telling them how to do their jobs, even if they have good ideas on that front, any more than I want any of these people try to tell me how to compose an image.  At some point, shit has gotta get done, and doing everything by committee is slow and mostly stupid.  "Too many chefs in the kitchen" and all that.

So no, the designers for the most part probably don't want to hear what the VFX guy has to say about design, any more than the VFX guy wants the entire company up in his business adding their input on what he has to do.  If this game fails, it's not because the designers didn't listen to every employee - it's because they, personally, did a bad job in this instance.  It happens.  Some movies are duds, even if there's a great director at the helm.

If you, within the defined parameters of your job, notice that something is going horribly wrong.
You can choose to ignore it and do you job, receive your pay and go home at the end of the day.

Knowing full well that your company is on a collision course and is likely to run into financial trouble.
Now perhaps its normal where you are that you'd ignore this - but I'd do one of two things.
 First off I'd speak to my superior, and display by worry - I'd say my peace and leave it at that.
 Second off - if they'd continue on their course I'd go for self-preservation and FIND A DIFFERENT JOB.

Knowing full well that once the company goes under, I'd be out of a job regardless.


On top of that, I have a definitive problem with the morality of the decisions made by Peter, that I would not be able to work under him.
Now maybe thats just me, maybe the rest of the world has been drilled into this "keep your head down and stay out of trouble" mentality that you just shut up and do your job.
But I couldn't do that.

I'm not saying Peter should listen to every whim of every single employee - I'm saying that if a couple thousand people are telling him something is wrong.
There's a PRETTY GOOD CHANCE that something is wrong. And if his own employees who have in-depth knowledge of what is going on also notice this.
Perhaps its an idea to rethink your steps.


There's nothing wrong with 2 adult human beings having a chat and sharing their worries. Now perhaps this is a concept that goes beyond you.
Perhaps you've reached the point where your boss is some deity that you have no right of speaking to.
But I for one do not share this view. If I were in feanix his position, I would've mentioned my worries rather than acting like the entire world is mad instead.

Eh. I can see where you and 13thGeneral are coming from, but I think Feanix has made his position fairly clear. He's pretty comfortable with working as he's working and trusts that Peter will pull something through in the design side of things. I'm sure if he weren't he'd try to push his concerns during a meeting or something, and probably has before, but concerning stuff related to how his work factors into the rest of things. We also have to take into consideration that he may be privy to some longer term plans that should help resolve some of the standing issues at some point or another that reassure his decision to stick with the whole project.

I dunno, from Feanix's other posts, I gather that it's not like he couldn't toss out some ideas and thoughts relating to this or that, it's just that he kinda prefers to stick to his own devices. I don't think it's indicative of the company environment so much as worker personality. We have a different mindset to Feanix, that's all.

The question is - if I thought the game was great yet it was financially headed for a cliff - would I have proof of this?
If I did, then I would start thinking to myself what I could do myself and what "the company" could do as a whole to change this.
Aswell as considering whether or not this is worthwhile.

I would consider this, because (like with the previous example) I'd value my job. I could stick my head in the sand and just do my job.
But then sooner or later that cliff would come and I'd likely lose my job. Personally I'd say that trying to avoid that cliff would be preferable, and if avoiding that cliff would be impossible than preserving my income would become my primary priority.
Which ultimately means that I'd do my due diligence and in the meantime I'd be looking for a different job.


You're right ofcourse that plenty of games (and TV series for that matter) seem to be very popular yet still do not meet some quota and thus get cancelled.
While other such products appear to be completely and utterly terrible yet get renewed year after year.
And its not always as black-and-white.
Though in this particular case, I have a hard time believing thats the case.

The evidence backing up "our claims" regarding Godus seem quite conclusive. And while it is true that Peter has gone and ignored criticism before to come out victorious.
It seems to me that the differences between the dragon/dog situation and the acorn compared to the Godus Kickstarter and subsequent SEA/iOS releases do not exactly stand in comparison to eachother. The scale of worries and evidence backing up those worries are pretty different from eachother.
And you've got to be either blind or incredibly stubborn not to realize as a professional developer that something is up.

Is it possible that Peter/22cans has some wildcard hidden, a piece of information that is a gamechanger? Sure it is... Though it seems increasingly unlikely that *anything* will be good enough to turn this ship around.



Am I extreme in some of the examples I give? Yes... Because in my experience these are the most likely to draw out a response.
Sometimes you need to dumb down an example to get the rats to come out of the woodworks. And more than once this has resulted in responses that provided us with more information than we previously possessed.

(Hint: If there indeed is some kind of miracle solution being worked on by the cans, its my purpose to draw them out to reveal those cards...)
Yet ultimately, I think it more likely that the cans are just biding their time to make the best of a bad situation and will cash out sooner or later and all go on their merry way.
Leaving 'us' - the original backers - not only without a game, but also with a severely damaged trust in the concept of crowdfunding in general.

Which really is my biggest problem in this entire endeavour. I've backed other projects that turned out differently than intended and I've bought SEA games that disappointed.
But none of them did so as extremely as 22cans did with Godus. And I think it'd be a great shame if the concept of crowdfunding would lose traction, because one man was too stubborn to keep up his side of the bargain.
Sadly, a lot of people out there will judge crowdfunding not by the games that successfully got funded and released through it, but instead they will judge it by the biggest of failures instead.

Just for the record I wasn't suggesting feanix or others make a nuisance of themselves at work. If your boss doesn't want your views they don't want their views.

My point was that Peter should be seeking the opinions and ideas of the whole team and their personal networks. This is an invaluable resource. If people don't feel like their opinions are wanted then that explains why the development has gone so wrong.

This.







Also, I didn't mean to give the impression that he doesn't listen. He does. He just usually has a very clear idea of what he wants to do right at the moment and it takes a pretty cogent argument to convince him of anything else.

As an example of Peter listening, I was the one who suggested Steam Workshop as a basis for the community creating and sharing configs. Others in the studio the suggested that we should also let people create and share their own homeworlds and expeditions. I strongly believe that allowing the community to mod the game is a very good thing thing (I'm biased, I've always been a modder and mod user), myself and others were able to voice that, Peter took it on board.

Its definitely something interesting if done well - suffice it to say its also something that has been proposed before by the community when it became apparent that the 22cans interests lay with the mobile platform.
Kinda like the AI faction idea. Its not a 'new' concept.

If only he got convinced of these 'good ideas' 6~12 months earlier, things might've gone significantly different.
Given recent experiences, most games that do really well - do so because they include the community.
Be it the indie devs that listen to and interact with the community sharing their idea's and having feedback go back and forth or the games that rely heavily on a modding community to create fresh content.
Both of which are pretty good recipes for success (if done well...)



While Godus would still require a solid basis of gameplay - the ability to mod the game, create/alter maps (homeworld and voyages) through some form of terrain gen/sandbox editor etc would be a solid step towards improving the current lack of content.
Just please *PLEASE* don't think that its a miracle cure. Some form of level editor and the balance file update will not change the core gameplay.
If the core gameplay resides around meaningless expansion for the sake of expansion and poorly balanced game mechanics that are just thrown together, people are going to get bored just as rapidly as they are right now...