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Post by Deth on Aug 29, 2014 14:42:29 GMT
OH and Feanix who did you piss off over there that they stuck you in here with us? /9->
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feanix
Suspected 22Cans staff
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Post by feanix on Aug 29, 2014 16:57:25 GMT
Ultimately I'm a PC gamer. I think of you guys as my people.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 29, 2014 20:48:36 GMT
Ultimately I'm a PC gamer. I think of you guys as my people. Represent! |
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Post by Deth on Aug 29, 2014 22:31:53 GMT
Ultimately I'm a PC gamer. I think of you guys as my people. OK then we need to plan a coup and get you in power there. Power to the PC People! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 22:37:55 GMT
Feanix for President of 37cans!
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 29, 2014 23:01:15 GMT
Going back to the topic at hand, I've been keeping tabs on the mobile players' threads on 22cans' forums and the Godus subreddit. Besides noting the same qualms we've had with the game, even with however the game is balanced on the mobile build, they're quickly coming to the end of the existing content. I really don't think 22cans anticipated mobile players being generally similar to PC players in that, even if they don't play for as long in a single sitting, they still aim to move forward and accomplish whatever they see that they can accomplish in the content.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 30, 2014 0:15:03 GMT
Going back to the topic at hand, I've been keeping tabs on the mobile players' threads on 22cans' forums and the Godus subreddit. Besides noting the same qualms we've had with the game, even with however the game is balanced on the mobile build, they're quickly coming to the end of the existing content. I really don't think 22cans anticipated mobile players being generally similar to PC players in that, even if they don't play for as long in a single sitting, they still aim to move forward and accomplish whatever they see that they can accomplish in the content. Well that can't be good for business. Although this pretty much proves what we've been predicting; they're going to have to keep adding content updates to the mobile, at a relatively quick pace, just to retain that user base (and their moneymaker). |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 30, 2014 0:44:57 GMT
Going back to the topic at hand, I've been keeping tabs on the mobile players' threads on 22cans' forums and the Godus subreddit. Besides noting the same qualms we've had with the game, even with however the game is balanced on the mobile build, they're quickly coming to the end of the existing content. I really don't think 22cans anticipated mobile players being generally similar to PC players in that, even if they don't play for as long in a single sitting, they still aim to move forward and accomplish whatever they see that they can accomplish in the content. Well that can't be good for business. Although this pretty much proves what we've been predicting; they're going to have to keep adding content updates to the mobile, at a relatively quick pace, just to retain that user base (and their moneymaker). Exactly, which is why they're trying to figure out a plan of action given what they told us and what they know their mobile audience may be wanting/expecting. They know they can't do both at once, so my bet is they may be looking into expanding the team to try to accommodate this fact. This goes against what some of us have been predicting in regards to delaying the PC sprint even more and having us simply test the content releases for iOS, which I still think may prove to be a solid prediction, but they claim to be in this for the long haul, so they've got no choice except to expand the team or frustrate us some more. The only sensible decision they can make, as far as I can tell, is to expand provided what they've told us. You might point out to me that it wouldn't be a first for 22cans to push us to the side, and you wouldn't be wrong, but I honestly think they do want to get around to working on PC at some point. Leaving us alone does little more than serve to sharpen a thorn in their side, and hell, expanding the team doesn't even have to relate to us. It can entirely relate to maintaining their so-called moneymaker with more content to keep bringing in money. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 1:06:02 GMT
<speculation>
I don't know how they are going to make the PC side of Godus solvent, tbh, especially since most of their fan-base has already paid for the game. Completely separating the two... unless they deliver an incredible PC game that exceeds expectations and makes good on the promises they paved their Kickstarter foundation with (which I hope they will) I doubt they will be able to generate the PC sales to cover the server costs let alone make a profit. All speculation of course, but they've dug themselves into quite a rut.
I really want to hope when all is said and done they do, but it is hard to imagine them dedicating their entire studio to a PC endeavor that will assuredly, at least in the short term, be less successful than mobile (again, keep in mind most interested parties have already paid). I'm clearly not privy to their financials, but aside from keeping promises, it doesn't seem to make any business sense whatsoever to continue developing for the PC.
</speculation>
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Post by Danjal on Aug 30, 2014 1:09:18 GMT
Expanding the team would only work if they can be sure of near-future income though.
So they'd have to take those steps quickly, or lose whatever momentum they have left.
I'll admit that the option to expand their resources might prove a valid one, aswell as one that most of us have not uttered.
Yet at the same time, I don't see expanding their resources solve the current problem at hand - which is that the game lacks anything substantial to do.
Regardless of whether they have 10, 20 or 40 people working on it, if all they do is add in more timers and more repetition of the same its not going to do much on the long run.
And I imagine that the window they have to renew the interest of the iOS players (aswell as the 'new' SEA players) isn't getting any bigger.
Not to mention there's the obstacle of all the negative review to overcome, they'd have to do a pretty solid turnaround to have many of those chance their tune.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 30, 2014 1:13:24 GMT
<speculation> **snip** I doubt they will be able to generate the PC sales to cover the server costs let alone make a profit. **snip** </speculation> This alone is a problem that I don't see them solving any time soon. Getting the infrastructure needed not only to support either platform (and android later on) seperately, but even the added intention of getting cross-platform functionality. Its a very large hurdle. I still think it more likely that the game will rely most heavily on instanced content instead. (Has anyone considered the implications of people being stuck in a fixed hub, what are the odds of 4 random players from potentially all over the world being online at the same time regularly...) |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 30, 2014 1:27:31 GMT
Expanding the team would only work if they can be sure of near-future income though. So they'd have to take those steps quickly, or lose whatever momentum they have left. I'll admit that the option to expand their resources might prove a valid one, aswell as one that most of us have not uttered. Yet at the same time, I don't see expanding their resources solve the current problem at hand - which is that the game lacks anything substantial to do. Regardless of whether they have 10, 20 or 40 people working on it, if all they do is add in more timers and more repetition of the same its not going to do much on the long run. And I imagine that the window they have to renew the interest of the iOS players (aswell as the 'new' SEA players) isn't getting any bigger. Not to mention there's the obstacle of all the negative review to overcome, they'd have to do a pretty solid turnaround to have many of those chance their tune. Well it's one of those chicken or the egg problems, isn't it? How do you ensure future income if you don't have the resources to produce content to ensure future income? The only way to solidify any certainty to future income is to do as I said, neglect PC and focus full stop on mobile and raise our ire some more in the meantime, or increase their resource pool by expanding the team and hiring on more developers to produce content for mobile while a smaller portion of the studio works slowly on PC. You're right that expanding the team wouldn't solve the problem that is most apparent to us, which is lacking any major goals or anything to do, but that problem isn't necessarily as apparent to the mobile crowd. They don't seem to mind the absence of challenge or a goal, they're content to keep expanding their population/civilization and going through the timeline, from what I've read. Eventually the content would need to get more complex, but it seems to me that much of the mobile audience is either coming into the game with a fresh view of things or returning from having set the game aside for awhile, and they're pretty happy with what's there for now. They would just like to have more of what I mentioned already. As odd as it may sound, the game's in a somewhat decent place for now, just not for us. <speculation> **snip** I doubt they will be able to generate the PC sales to cover the server costs let alone make a profit. **snip** </speculation> This alone is a problem that I don't see them solving any time soon. Getting the infrastructure needed not only to support either platform (and android later on) seperately, but even the added intention of getting cross-platform functionality. Its a very large hurdle. I still think it more likely that the game will rely most heavily on instanced content instead. (Has anyone considered the implications of people being stuck in a fixed hub, what are the odds of 4 random players from potentially all over the world being online at the same time regularly...) Well the problem in parentheses isn't that big of a deal as long as they do it right. You just pick (or it detects) your region and it will connect you with those that speak the same language and are on around the same time (thanks to it possibly narrowing regions down to sub-regions for timezone reasons). |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 30, 2014 1:41:08 GMT
But are you always online at the same times? I know I'm not... I know most people I know are not... How will they figure out your 'online habits'?
If it were to "reassign" partners based on your most recent online times, I'd say you're right.
But the only thing they have to go on (aside from anything you'd fill in yourself, which they didn't appear to be going for) is the time you log in and at most the location you're at.
Language isn't necessarily a problem, considering they still do not plan on including any player-to-player communication. (lets all write in the sand!)
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 30, 2014 1:49:55 GMT
But are you always online at the same times? I know I'm not... I know most people I know are not... How will they figure out your 'online habits'? If it were to "reassign" partners based on your most recent online times, I'd say you're right. But the only thing they have to go on (aside from anything you'd fill in yourself, which they didn't appear to be going for) is the time you log in and at most the location you're at. Language isn't necessarily a problem, considering they still do not plan on including any player-to-player communication. (lets all write in the sand!) I dunno, all I know is it's a problem that's been resolved by a ton of online games so it can't be that big of a problem to sort out. We've already noted the details they'd need to take into account to deal with it. Location probably/whoever else is online/smash'em together, hurrah some kinda multiplayer. The part that's proving difficult, I'd say, is deciding what they want to with the multiplayer a little more than the how. Such as what are the different modes they want players to go through, what powers should they have available, what should the map size be, what should the terrain be like, etc. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 1:50:46 GMT
(Has anyone considered the implications of people being stuck in a fixed hub, what are the odds of 4 random players from potentially all over the world being online at the same time regularly...) I think it will play out like most other competitive online multi-player scenes. pardon the tl;dr that follows... In regards to the F2P side of things: 1. Random Players join world. 2. Regardless of timezone, "Hardcore" players spend significantly more time online/money working on achieving a "win state" and graduation through the hubworlds. (Let's call these players "whales" just for giggles  ) 3. "Hardcore" players that refuse to pay into the freemium mechanics realize the futility of keeping up and lose interest/leave. 4. Casuals are having fun thwipping and thwapping their land this way and that and are vaguely aware of some sort of odd presence occupying their personal space and are unaffected by other players constantly coming and going. 5. "Hardcore" players quickly gravitate towards the top of the hubword pyramid/ladder/pile and leave the Casuals to equalize a washed-out ghost town of sporadically active players. That said, I can see hubworlds functioning similarly to current mobile games alliances/clans/etc. I can't count how many times I've joined a clan/alliance/tribe/coalition in various mobile games only to see the active players immediately bail for greener pastures or go inactive. The only exception I have ever experienced is when I somehow weaseled my way into the #1 top teir alliances in Outernauts. The gameplay was "competitive" enough (lol @ mobile games amirite) that there was always an influx of new players that kept the alliance alive and interesting. Unless they really have something imaginative up their sleeves I can see hubworlds panning out to be very rewarding for the hardcore players and having little draw for the casuals. In regards to the PC side of things: I have no idea what to expect, but again, I am convinced we will see some very rewarding play for the "hardcore" players, and some frustratingly sterile experiences for the casuals. Of course this entire line of thinking could be thrown on it's ear if hubworlds were more collaborative in nature than competitive. While PM himself made it seem that multiplayer would be collaborative in nature, I have a hard time seeing 22cans deliver on this considering people feverishly "investing" money in a collaboration at a desirable rate compared to a "invest-to-win" competitive structure seems questionable. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 30, 2014 1:56:38 GMT
(Has anyone considered the implications of people being stuck in a fixed hub, what are the odds of 4 random players from potentially all over the world being online at the same time regularly...) Of course this entire line of thinking could be thrown on it's ear if hubworlds were more collaborative in nature than competitive. While PM himself made it seem that multiplayer would be collaborative in nature, I have a hard time seeing 22cans deliver on this considering people feverishly "investing" money in a collaboration at a desirable rate compared to a "invest-to-win" competitive structure seems questionable. Unless they change their minds, which wouldn't be surprising, they've said that Hubworld is where cross platform play is supposed to occur, so they can't monetize it unless it's pure aesthetics. This may be why the gifts from god cost gems on mobile, despite it seeming to lean a little towards pay to win due to them helping greatly against the Astari, they aren't concerned since it's not in any way affecting multiplayer. |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 30, 2014 2:10:08 GMT
How many other online games do you know that insist on putting you together with 3 other random players and then leaving you there permanently?
Most resolve the issue by allowing you to connect to instances or having lobbies connect players together that happen to be online at the same time.
You get matchmaking for that point in time, and next time you get matched to different people.
The very core design (as described to us...) for hubworld relies on each player getting put into a hub with 3 others and staying in that hub. *permanently*
So unless that core design gets changed (hence the questions of what hubworld exactly will entail...) they've got quite a problem to solve.
I for one would LOVE to get more information on this, rather than the stoic silence we've been getting so far on the topic of hubworlds.
As for hubworlds being collaborative in nature - I suspect that collaborative hubworlds would become even more problematic than competative ones.
Its all fine and dandy when people cooperate, but we've been around long enough to know that a significant portion of online players lives to ruin the experience for others.
It'd be like letting a couple of bullies around in the sandpit, they'd make it their sole purpose to destroy anything you create. Even if it wouldn't advance them towards the goal of the hub.
Moreover, with only 1 person being allowed to advance, the odds of 3 out of the 4 people being "satisfied" with sitting back and letting the other person advance seem slim (which is why I've been asking what happens to the other players that don't advance).
It wouldn't surprise me if the monetization aspect of hubworld is not also part of the reason why it is delayed.
Given the likely situation that mobile and PC are going to grow further apart balancewise the longer this project goes on, I'd imagine they've got quite the puzzle in front of them to solve.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 30, 2014 4:35:24 GMT
Given the likely situation that mobile and PC are going to grow further apart balance wise the longer this project goes on, I'd imagine they've got quite the puzzle in front of them to solve. A rather complex puzzle of their own creation, might I add. This is what you get when you promise things when you have no real plan mapped out, and no experience doing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 4:50:28 GMT
Given the likely situation that mobile and PC are going to grow further apart balance wise the longer this project goes on, I'd imagine they've got quite the puzzle in front of them to solve. A rather complex puzzle of their own creation, might I add. This is what you get when you promise things when you have no real plan mapped out, and no experience doing. 1. Get KS/SEA Money 2. Iterate 3. ? ? ? ? 4. Profit! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 10:58:04 GMT
Anyone have links to current mobile play/sale stats? Couldn't find Godus in any of the top lists on iOS today.
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Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
