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Post by Danjal on Sept 25, 2014 18:50:46 GMT
Dare I say it is odd that they choose to go for another Reddit session rather than to answer the questions?
I predict reddit will be a massive chaotic affair as people try to "push" their questions forward that haven't been answered yet...
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Sept 25, 2014 18:59:26 GMT
Yeah, the reddit will be like "okay, so what questions do you have?", as if they don't know our questions yet.
I guess it'll be easier to influence for them coz they can put 20 canners on reddit accounts coming up with bullshit questions that are easy to answer and not loaded with vinegar to divert attention from the loaded questions that have been lingering for years. Cherrypickin' all around.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Sept 25, 2014 20:40:13 GMT
I don't know how Reddit suddenly got involved in this either. The last AMA on Reddit was terrible, and 22Cans' huffy response to the negative feedback was that PM is severely dyslexic and Reddit wasn't a good medium for him to be handling questions.
But then again, when did 22Cans ever learn from past mistakes?
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 25, 2014 22:08:12 GMT
Thanks for sharing. So he's saying maybe tomorrow? Can someone from 22Cans track the progress of this? I REALLY don't want this to join the ranks of the millions of things 22Cans says they're planning on doing, then it gets pushed back 5 or 6 times, then everyone forgets about it amongst the other things 22Cans said they'd do. No problem! I don't know that I mentioned it here, but honestly, it's Peter...We should definitely take that lightly. If anything, we should take it as a cool sign that he's eager to do it (maybe), but being realistic...It seems unlikely. I think it's great that Peter took the time to reply and open himself up for this at all. I say we take it at face value and make the best of it. |
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Post by greay on Sept 25, 2014 23:47:25 GMT
I don't know how Reddit suddenly got involved in this either. The last AMA on Reddit was terrible, and 22Cans' huffy response to the negative feedback was that PM is severely dyslexic and Reddit wasn't a good medium for him to be handling questions. But then again, when did 22Cans ever learn from past mistakes? If one were being charitable, they could say that the offer of a reddit thread is to address the complaint that just doing a video response to a list of pre-compiled questions isn't communication per se, and a reddit thread will allow there to be some form of back-and-forth. It doesn't sound like it's replacing the long video response, but in addition to it. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 26, 2014 11:12:06 GMT
I don't know how Reddit suddenly got involved in this either. The last AMA on Reddit was terrible, and 22Cans' huffy response to the negative feedback was that PM is severely dyslexic and Reddit wasn't a good medium for him to be handling questions. But then again, when did 22Cans ever learn from past mistakes? If one were being charitable, they could say that the offer of a reddit thread is to address the complaint that just doing a video response to a list of pre-compiled questions isn't communication per se, and a reddit thread will allow there to be some form of back-and-forth. It doesn't sound like it's replacing the long video response, but in addition to it. Its also a platform both extremely unsuitable for Peter, due to his dyslexia and his poor performance under direct pressure. Just look at the previous Reddit attempt, it totally fell apart ending with a joking "lets speed up the game 200~300%" with many questions left unanswered. The reality is that Peter just doesn't really do well with such a direct method and that given the extensive list of questions. Its not the right method to go for initially. Perhaps once they have answered the current set of questions to a reasonable degree, a followup can be made through reddit. But even then I'd say thats a questionable endeavour if Peter does not feel comfortable doing so and giving on-the-fly answers to on-the-fly questions. What matters is the quality of the answers. Not the speed at which they are provided. Nor the method in which they are delivered. And the reality is that Reddit does not pose a viable means to provide the quality we're all looking for. Not to mention we're not looking for all the silly questions that pop up on reddit AMA's. |
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Post by Deth on Sept 26, 2014 11:47:34 GMT
What he should do is a video stream with a chat room. That way he can ramble on as he likes and not have to type. Though once the hard questions start coming in he might start feeling bullied. But if one of the CMs were reading off the questions to him. So they can weed out the stupid and "I just hate you and want to mess with you questions" out. That was he does not feel to pressured and does not have to worry about his dyslexic.
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Post by greay on Sept 27, 2014 0:35:58 GMT
What matters is the quality of the answers. Not the speed at which they are provided. Nor the method in which they are delivered. And the reality is that Reddit does not pose a viable means to provide the quality we're all looking for. I agree. What he should do is a video stream with a chat room. That way he can ramble on as he likes and not have to type. Though once the hard questions start coming in he might start feeling bullied. But if one of the CMs were reading off the questions to him. So they can weed out the stupid and "I just hate you and want to mess with you questions" out. That was he does not feel to pressured and does not have to worry about his dyslexic. I agree with this as well. I only think the reddit thread is a good idea insofar as it does supply a back-and-forth, which the long-form video response doesn't, really. At least not yet – who knows? Maybe they'll start doing more of these, and after each one the community can band together a response to the latest video, after which Peter & Jack would do another video responding to that... This would be exceedingly slow, however. To your point about the speed, I'm not so much worried about the speed per se, but the indirectness of it all. At a glacial pace (especially when so many disparate parties are involved), the immediacy of an actual conversation gets lost and it's hard to even remember what we were talking about. Or people have just moved on. Video stream w/a chat would work. And I agree the CM weeding out the bile would probably work well. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 27, 2014 0:43:16 GMT
Here's the thing about the long-form video. It DOES offer a back and forth, it just does one on a delay.
Video goes out, we have time to process it, the community collects their thoughts and responds.
New questions and feedback is formed while people have time to think and are send towards 22cans.
22cans has time to respond and provide relevant feedback as opposed to on-the-fly answers.
Video/stream with chat has some advantages in terms of quick response.
But generally the quality is far less as the recording party is going to be distracted.
They'll be poked and prodded from all sides with everyone trying to get their 15 seconds of fame.
Its an unorganized mess.
Now the forums are also an unorganized mess, but atleast there you get a chance to organize things.
Make sure all the double and triple questions are filtered out, instead of having a free-for-all where a bunch of guys keep reposting their questions and disrupting the stream, because they REALLY want to know what Peter's pet cat had for breakfast 3 nights ago.
Give me a weekly/bi-weekly back and forth over that any day.
Regardless of format.
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Post by banned on Sept 27, 2014 4:10:15 GMT
No problem! I don't know that I mentioned it here, but honestly, it's Peter...We should definitely take that lightly. If anything, we should take it as a cool sign that he's eager to do it (maybe), but being realistic...It seems unlikely. I think it's great that Peter took the time to reply and open himself up for this at all. I say we take it at face value and make the best of it. Hey, you are certainly on target. Please let me offer some excellent investment opportunities in penny stocks which are assured to make you millions or perhaps some bridges! Just click "Buy Now!" |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Sept 28, 2014 14:53:22 GMT
Here's the thing about the long-form video. It DOES offer a back and forth, it just does one on a delay. Video goes out, we have time to process it, the community collects their thoughts and responds. New questions and feedback is formed while people have time to think and are send towards 22cans. 22cans has time to respond and provide relevant feedback as opposed to on-the-fly answers. Video/stream with chat has some advantages in terms of quick response. But generally the quality is far less as the recording party is going to be distracted. They'll be poked and prodded from all sides with everyone trying to get their 15 seconds of fame. Its an unorganized mess. Now the forums are also an unorganized mess, but atleast there you get a chance to organize things. Make sure all the double and triple questions are filtered out, instead of having a free-for-all where a bunch of guys keep reposting their questions and disrupting the stream, because they REALLY want to know what Peter's pet cat had for breakfast 3 nights ago. Give me a weekly/bi-weekly back and forth over that any day. Regardless of format. My problem with the video is that we've had videos in the past. We've responded to those videos, and the responses have been ignored, at best. Anything longer term than a chat room risks the VERY possible chance of being ignored. The Reddit is going to be AMA 2.0 and we'll see the same sort of crap we saw last time. The only difference I can see is that the video will come BEFORE the AMA, rather than after. The fact that this whole response process is taking a month to kick off should be enough to prove we're working with SOP. All these delays are unnecessary because none of the questions being asked are new. They didn't need Gmr to collect, collate, and compile. That was supposedly done several times in the past. They've latched onto it so they have a convenient excuse not to actually respond to our long standing concerns for another month. The problem will be, and has been, PM's insistence in being THE voice for this project. Their spokesman is an insecure dreamer with dyslexia and a tendency to spout reactionary promises that never come to pass. Nothing he says can, will, or should be trusted without concrete evidence to support it. Remember, last time we were given the "bombshell" that pc would get Hubworld first. I wonder what will be in the burning brown paper bag on my doorstep this time. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 28, 2014 15:02:17 GMT
If they want to ignore us, they'd do that regardless of format - as such I'd say go with the format that Peter feels most comfortable with and that allows them to get their message across the best.
If they ignore our questions - then we have our answer. If they answer our questions, then we all might get ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 15:23:38 GMT
Dang Danjal, Stick it to 'em!
Thank you for the write up. I agree with nearly everything said here... It's about time 22cans stops this silly charade and starts making good on their obligations to the mobile whale crowd the people that initially funded this game. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 1, 2014 15:33:24 GMT
Dang Danjal, Stick it to 'em!
Thank you for the write up. I agree with nearly everything said here... It's about time 22cans stops this silly charade and starts making good on their obligations to the mobile whale crowd the people that initially funded this game. Too bad it doesn't matter which way we talk to them. We've had sweettalkers and straighttalkers and it's gotten us nowhere either way. The only people who might care at all might be the CM team (and a few of the other devs that hang around the forums), but it's pretty clear they're barely ever listened to unless it relates to critical bugs. |
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Aron
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Post by Aron on Oct 1, 2014 16:18:35 GMT
Dang Danjal, Stick it to 'em!
Thank you for the write up. I agree with nearly everything said here... It's about time 22cans stops this silly charade and starts making good on their obligations to the mobile whale crowd the people that initially funded this game. Too bad it doesn't matter which way we talk to them. We've had sweettalkers and straighttalkers and it's gotten us nowhere either way. The only people who might care at all might be the CM team (and a few of the other devs that hang around the forums), but it's pretty clear they're barely ever listened to unless it relates to critical bugs. and i doubt that the mobile Players are Aware that some bugs cost them more real money |
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Aron
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Post by Aron on Oct 1, 2014 16:19:18 GMT
Too bad it doesn't matter which way we talk to them. We've had sweettalkers and straighttalkers and it's gotten us nowhere either way. The only people who might care at all might be the CM team (and a few of the other devs that hang around the forums), but it's pretty clear they're barely ever listened to unless it relates to critical bugs. and i doubt that the mobile Players are Aware that some bugs cost them more real Money (if they buy believe packs) |
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Post by Danjal on Oct 1, 2014 16:39:02 GMT
And they know it...
22cans knows that most mobile/iOS players don't really have high standards.
Which allows them to get away with a ton of shit.
Seriously though.
They had ONE job.
NOT MAKE A PROMISE YOU CAN'T KEEP.
One... Who forced them to say they'd make the video last week?
By my own last account we expected them to take a week or more to respond *at all*.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 16:55:31 GMT
I wonder if any of them have bothered to take a step outside of their circle to take a look at the awful public perception they've cultivated over the months/years.
I've worked for a similar company with similar standards before. I quit when it became apparent that they had no intention of maintaining any sort of moral standard other than "make money, any way you can". IMO it's not worth having your name associated with dirt-bag companies like this for the rest of your life.
That said, people can change. An entire company built on deceitful practices and broken deadlines/promises... not as easily.
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Post by Danjal on Oct 1, 2014 17:03:20 GMT
I wonder if any of them have bothered to take a step outside of their circle to take a look at the awful public perception they've cultivated over the months/years. I've worked for a similar company with similar standards before. I quit when it became apparent that they had no intention of maintaining any sort of moral standard other than "make money, any way you can". IMO it's not worth having your name associated with dirt-bag companies like this for the rest of your life. That said, people can change. An entire company built on deceitful practices and broken deadlines/promises... not as easily. They probably have - but when they got back in they looked at the iOS statistics and realized that their target audience is about as sheltered as it gets. And that as long as they negative perception doesn't go viral, they're pretty much golden. Afterall, the average mobile player doesn't bother to read reviews or takes much stock in public opinion. The games are free so you just install it if its on the front page and try for yourself. And out of every dozen or so players one sticks around, and out of every dozen that stick around there's one that keeps reaching for their creditcard when they get stuck. And presto, thats the mobile business model in a nutshell. Rather than banking on satisfying your majority audience (I.E. going for quality), you're banking on statistics instead and hope that if you just expose to enough people then some of them will pay. (I.E. going for quantity) There's a reason why there are so many shitty mobile games - because they don't need to be good. All they need to do is hold your attention for the 5~15 minutes it takes to smoke a cigarette/take a dump/wait in the bus/travel by train and so on. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 17:10:14 GMT
Godus - The Re-Genisis of the Dump-Taking Game.Pretty much sums it up right there.
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