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Post by greay on Sept 17, 2014 19:24:41 GMT
Pushed this out over on Steam.Bulk of idea is reiterating what I've discussed over here, with a little more detail: Some ideas I've had are grouping together similar questions together and tagging them as being similar to allow for answering several at once (killing two birds with one stone, etc.), as well as having the categories arranged in terms of overall priority. E.g. Meta-high priority. q1-10 high priority. q11-15 moderate. 15-20 low. Comms-high priority. Requests-high priority. Hubworld-moderate priority. Gameplay-moderate priority. q1-5 high priority. q6-10 moderate. 11-15 low. Something to that effect, questions rearranged accordingly, where below 10 questions, all questions should be considered their categorical priority. Priorities in example not set, just conveying the thoughts jostling about. Meta: 3 & 4 are basically the same question. ("When is the PC sprint expected to be worked on now?" & "When will the PC sprint happen and what will it deliver?") 14 would be a "high" priority for me, but only as an ongoing thing. As a one-off not so much. ("What are you working on right now?")20 is important (maybe the most important), but there's no way to get a satisfying answer w/in the time constraints of their response.
Gameplay:
I'd bump 7 up, as it gives us more insight into their goals for Godus. ("What is the single biggest pressing feature/aspect of Godus that you feel needs the most focus and attention right now, and why?")
This is possibly too similar to 8 ("What features are you currently working on?")
Also bump up 13, as it's a new mechanic and so I'm assuming (hoping?) it's unfinished & still open to change ("Will there be a way to increase happiness that does not involve the production of gems?") As a whole, though, your prioritization looks pretty good to me. (I'm also surprised no questions about the Astari – I'm fine with that, but I expected it to be bigger in people's minds) I do hope you get a response from Matthew about the duration / splitting it up into 2 videos. I think we deserve answers to these questions, but 30 min is not gonna cut it. |
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Post by hardly on Sept 17, 2014 19:26:13 GMT
So I was just crunching some numbers a moment ago, and if we want more meaningful answers and we equate meaningful with length of response, it's gonna be a bit of a rough situation. The only way they could get around to pretty much all of our questions would be for each answer to be around 30-45 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know that that would get us the answers we're interested in hearing. You could get 10 in with 3 minutes per answer, 20 with 1min30 seconds per answer, and obviously 30 with 1 min per answer. Shot a tweet over to Matthew Allen about this, wondering if to ensure best responses maybe it could be split into two videos, as I think getting around 20 in each with roughly 1min30 or a little over, might get some better responses than trying to compress the answers. Then again, if Jack did most of the answering, with the speed at which he talks, he might be able to speed right through these with decent responses in 30 minutes, but I dunno. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you have been played. They just don't want to do it, and they are trying to make it as hard as possible to get the answers they should be freely willing to give us. There is no excuse for this. There time is obviously much more valuable than theres since you have to spend all this time working on this on they are willing to give a bloody half hour. I think I have my answer already. I agree. By making this a video and not just questions on a forum they've turned it into another delaying tactic. Secrecy reigns and it will continue to reign after the video. As Ba'al say peter can spend a lot of time talking without actually saying anything. He will also refuse the whole premise of having a design or explaining how the game will work in detail. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 17, 2014 19:37:15 GMT
Meta: 3 & 4 are basically the same question. ("When is the PC sprint expected to be worked on now?" & "When will the PC sprint happen and what will it deliver?") 14 would be a "high" priority for me, but only as an ongoing thing. As a one-off not so much. ("What are you working on right now?")20 is important (maybe the most important), but there's no way to get a satisfying answer w/in the time constraints of their response.
Gameplay:
I'd bump 7 up, as it gives us more insight into their goals for Godus. ("What is the single biggest pressing feature/aspect of Godus that you feel needs the most focus and attention right now, and why?")
This is possibly too similar to 8 ("What features are you currently working on?")
Also bump up 13, as it's a new mechanic and so I'm assuming (hoping?) it's unfinished & still open to change ("Will there be a way to increase happiness that does not involve the production of gems?") As a whole, though, your prioritization looks pretty good to me. (I'm also surprised no questions about the Astari – I'm fine with that, but I expected it to be bigger in people's minds) I do hope you get a response from Matthew about the duration / splitting it up into 2 videos. I think we deserve answers to these questions, but 30 min is not gonna cut it. Thanks Greay, I realize some of these are redundant right now, but that's part of the raw collection process for the time being. I've also considered just taking the highest priority questions from each category and lumping them under their own MONOLITHIC PRIORITY QUESTIONS category so they don't feel the need to go through all of the questions section by section. So I was just crunching some numbers a moment ago, and if we want more meaningful answers and we equate meaningful with length of response, it's gonna be a bit of a rough situation. The only way they could get around to pretty much all of our questions would be for each answer to be around 30-45 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know that that would get us the answers we're interested in hearing. You could get 10 in with 3 minutes per answer, 20 with 1min30 seconds per answer, and obviously 30 with 1 min per answer. Shot a tweet over to Matthew Allen about this, wondering if to ensure best responses maybe it could be split into two videos, as I think getting around 20 in each with roughly 1min30 or a little over, might get some better responses than trying to compress the answers. Then again, if Jack did most of the answering, with the speed at which he talks, he might be able to speed right through these with decent responses in 30 minutes, but I dunno. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you have been played. They just don't want to do it, and they are trying to make it as hard as possible to get the answers they should be freely willing to give us. There is no excuse for this. There time is obviously much more valuable than theres since you have to spend all this time working on this on they are willing to give a bloody half hour. I think I have my answer already. Not gonna lie, I've been going at this with that in mind from the very start. I've been trying to put off positive vibes in the sheer chance that we're all wrong, because I think we'd all like to be, but I'm just as ready to take this as a form of closure event if necessary. I've got Reprisal Universe to satisfy my modern god game tastes, and while it may not be as ambitious as Godus, at least it's upfront in what it is and wants to be. It's like being a member of an audience to a magician that frequently lets slip how their magic tricks work, you can't play the audience after they've seen you slip up each time, because now they know your process. The biggest problem is, even when/if they get it right for a change, it's hard to see any magic in the sleight of hand used to make it work. That's this situation and each response from them in a nutshell. Even when they come close to getting it right, we call it all out as a bluff or spin, because it always resembles the last series of tricks that we've seen slip up and lead to an unpleasant experience. Would we like to see the magic again (for once)? Sure, but it's going to take a really compelling trick* to get us to see past what's gone into it. *i.e. changes that recognize our feedback/concerns, more PC-styled content, etc. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 17, 2014 19:38:51 GMT
Do we even have a modicum of an notion when they want to produce this assuredly resplendent little video pseudo-inquisition? Have they provided a deadline for our questions so they may proceed within a reasonable timeframe? Well thats the thing, we haven't handed them the questions. Gmr Leon is still working on getting them together and giving people a chance to add to this list of share their view on priorities. Though, lets assume that this list will be handed off before or around the upcoming weekend or so. Then I suspect it will take atleast a week (knowing 22cans probably more) to get around to processing the questions and subsequently making the video. Which while annoying, isn't something I can blame them for. They ARE a business, they HAVE stuff they are doing. Yet I know that many won't see it that way, and the patience will wear thin before that time (already people are banging for answers when the questions haven't been handed off officially...) I think we'll need to get Matthew or George's input on this, or perhaps even Jack or Peter himself to get a general idea on how long they'd need to gather up the proper answers (normally I'd say that they should know what their project is about, but again, its 22cans we're talking about so I'm taking nothing for granted). I suspect 2~3 weeks from now - earliest. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 17, 2014 20:22:45 GMT
That's pretty much in line with what I would expect, taking into account all those factors.
Forum goers tend to have very long memories, but extremely short amounts of patience - and 22Cans tests the boundaries of both, regularly.
Granted these issues are nothing new, and these questions are more of the same repeated over the duration of development; but at least once they're submitted, we have can be satisfied knowing we've put in the effort.
What they do with it will determine how this proceeds going forward, or if a majority of the passengers will disembark.
ps.
I'm going on a short vacation next week, so this will be the last thing on my mind for a bit.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 17, 2014 20:29:26 GMT
Just want to let you guys know, I've went over the questions and marked several of them from Greay's/Danjal's/Qetesh's feedback on prioritization as well as a few traces of my own thoughts, as well as tagged some of the ones that can probably be grouped together as one-answer catching them all type questions. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 17, 2014 20:45:03 GMT
I'm pretty much okay with the current range of questions - I know a couple have already been answered from quickly scanning over it (#8 springs out, the game doesn't require you to be online at this point in time other than the first log-in for authorization/downloading of balance files)
Unless someone still has a line out that they're working on a list of questions or wanted to add something. I would consider this "okay" for launch.
Perhaps an overall message to add on top of this (if that message wasn't clear already) is that we as a community will value the content of their answers more so than the way they are delivered. If time is needed to properly address this then throw back a line of communications and point this out. (Example: "Currently occupied, will need atleast a week to clear the schedule and then another week to process things.")
If its an answer they suspect we wouldn't like to hear, we'd rather hear the bad news than be strung along and all that.
And that much like we have a certain expectation on how this should continue - I don't think it is entirely unreasonable for 22cans to have some expectations aswell. Within reason ofcourse. (Ultimately they are the ones selling a product, and as such have certain responsibilities to meet as such.)
It is essential that future communications are improved, so laying groundwork is key.
I'm thinking along the lines of communication procedures, 22cans acknowledges our desire or need for answers - but points out that they at times will need a certain amount of time to process things. As such an approximate timeframe or procedure will be set that gives them the time they need to work on things without the constant stress and hammering. For example they will point out that such things will always take atleast 2 weeks to process, the first week is the week in which such a problem is brought up and they will most likely be occupied with pre-arranged tasks, the second week is the time they need to deal with our issue. (Just throwing stuff out there, no specifics are tied to this, its just a generic example.)
Though ofcourse brought in a more concise manner. Not necessarily with all the examples and elaborations. =p
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 17, 2014 22:05:31 GMT
Meta: 3 & 4 are basically the same question. ("When is the PC sprint expected to be worked on now?" & "When will the PC sprint happen and what will it deliver?") 14 would be a "high" priority for me, but only as an ongoing thing. As a one-off not so much. ("What are you working on right now?")20 is important (maybe the most important), but there's no way to get a satisfying answer w/in the time constraints of their response.
Gameplay:
I'd bump 7 up, as it gives us more insight into their goals for Godus. ("What is the single biggest pressing feature/aspect of Godus that you feel needs the most focus and attention right now, and why?")
This is possibly too similar to 8 ("What features are you currently working on?")
Also bump up 13, as it's a new mechanic and so I'm assuming (hoping?) it's unfinished & still open to change ("Will there be a way to increase happiness that does not involve the production of gems?") As a whole, though, your prioritization looks pretty good to me. (I'm also surprised no questions about the Astari – I'm fine with that, but I expected it to be bigger in people's minds) I do hope you get a response from Matthew about the duration / splitting it up into 2 videos. I think we deserve answers to these questions, but 30 min is not gonna cut it. Thanks Greay, I realize some of these are redundant right now, but that's part of the raw collection process for the time being. I've also considered just taking the highest priority questions from each category and lumping them under their own MONOLITHIC PRIORITY QUESTIONS category so they don't feel the need to go through all of the questions section by section. Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you have been played. They just don't want to do it, and they are trying to make it as hard as possible to get the answers they should be freely willing to give us. There is no excuse for this. There time is obviously much more valuable than theres since you have to spend all this time working on this on they are willing to give a bloody half hour. I think I have my answer already. Not gonna lie, I've been going at this with that in mind from the very start. I've been trying to put off positive vibes in the sheer chance that we're all wrong, because I think we'd all like to be, but I'm just as ready to take this as a form of closure event if necessary. I've got Reprisal Universe to satisfy my modern god game tastes, and while it may not be as ambitious as Godus, at least it's upfront in what it is and wants to be. It's like being a member of an audience to a magician that frequently lets slip how their magic tricks work, you can't play the audience after they've seen you slip up each time, because now they know your process. The biggest problem is, even when/if they get it right for a change, it's hard to see any magic in the sleight of hand used to make it work. That's this situation and each response from them in a nutshell. Even when they come close to getting it right, we call it all out as a bluff or spin, because it always resembles the last series of tricks that we've seen slip up and lead to an unpleasant experience. Would we like to see the magic again (for once)? Sure, but it's going to take a really compelling trick* to get us to see past what's gone into it. *i.e. changes that recognize our feedback/concerns, more PC-styled content, etc. Your an amazing poster and we don't want to lose you, if Godus dies I believe this community could evolve into a much broader similar base if posters were open to it. We would not wish to lose you. |
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Post by hardly on Sept 17, 2014 22:14:36 GMT
Your doing good work GMR, I just hope 22cans have a honest crack at this and don't exploit the chaotic nature of our questions to avoid providing substantive information about their plans and activities.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 18, 2014 1:07:53 GMT
Just another of my formal verbose questions, carried over from Steam forums; Another TuesdayWith the tentative release of the balance files, in conjunction with the unspecified steam workshop integration venture, there is some uncertainty about it's effect on the upcoming PC focus; please clarify whether these components are/are not considered - in whole or part - as a major/minor inclusion of the PC sprint, or are they considered as a separate entity from (even if simultaneously concurrent) the aforementioned PC sprint? |
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Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 1:15:35 GMT
Good question. I don't think you need a video to answer it. One of the issues I think is that Peter is the custodian of the bullshit narrative which he shares with nobody else (except jack who is the next most culpable person) and therefore George etc are unable to answer even basic questions because Peter tells no one what is going on. He just makes it up lurching from PR crises to PR crises of his own making. This is just my supposition. Only those on the inside know the truth.
Perhaps SamVT will come back and explain how he was screwed over back in the day. I expect this would shed some light on Peters misdeeds.
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Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 1:20:18 GMT
It annoys me so much that 22cans just continually run down the clock without answering substantive questions about the development. Even basic questions go unanswered or are addressed with vagaries.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 18, 2014 1:28:22 GMT
Just another of my formal verbose questions, carried over from Steam forums; Another TuesdayWith the tentative release of the balance files, in conjunction with the unspecified steam workshop integration venture, there is some uncertainty about it's effect on the upcoming PC focus; please clarify whether these components are/are not considered - in whole or part - as a major/minor inclusion of the PC sprint, or are they considered as a separate entity from (even if simultaneously concurrent) the aforementioned PC sprint? You mean like this? =P Although the balance tool and the potential of map editors are really cool ideas, in many ways the inclusion of them [at this time] almost seems like you're simply trying to placate the PC players and essentially just passing them the torch so 22cans can focus on other things (mobile) - how do you see the balance files and users maps helping to guide the direction of the PC focus, why do you think it's a good idea, and how do you hope to quell those fears expressed above? Anywho. Here's a reorganized version of the questions. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Sept 18, 2014 5:53:28 GMT
Reading that list of questions really highlights how badly informed the community is right now and what an appalling job 22Cans have done on the PR front.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 18, 2014 11:14:45 GMT
Just another of my formal verbose questions, carried over from Steam forums; Another TuesdayYou mean like this? =P Although the balance tool and the potential of map editors are really cool ideas, in many ways the inclusion of them [at this time] almost seems like you're simply trying to placate the PC players and essentially just passing them the torch so 22cans can focus on other things (mobile) - how do you see the balance files and users maps helping to guide the direction of the PC focus, why do you think it's a good idea, and how do you hope to quell those fears expressed above? Anywho. Here's a reorganized version of the questions.Ooooh yeah. lol. Sorry, it was a long day.  |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 18, 2014 18:02:56 GMT
What do you guys think? I think I've reorganized the questions the best they can be organized given their subjects, but that doesn't mean we have to stick with them remaining in those categories for the sendoff. So I think we've got the bulk of the questions now that Digital Jam's gotten his in, now it's down to figuring out how to best arrange them/prioritize them. With the spirit of this thread, Zayfard's on point, but for the general community interest, I think getting details on how the game may become distinct from mobile is probably considered higher priority.
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Post by greay on Sept 18, 2014 19:21:54 GMT
I think getting details on how the game may become distinct from mobile is probably considered higher priority. I think as far as the general community's concerned, you may be right. Personally, though, I don't care about the mobile/desktop distinction – I just want both versions to be fun. They can be exactly the same (just with a different interface) or they can be wildly different; it doesn't matter. Ideally they'll each play to the platforms' strengths, and both will excise the unfun F2P mechanics. That is the issue, not the PC version being too similar to the mobile. |
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Post by Qetesh on Sept 18, 2014 22:32:42 GMT
The PC game was made to conform to the mobile and the mobile to appease the PC, that's why they both suck.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 18, 2014 23:06:51 GMT
Anyone else want to say...? Cut it down to a few of the categories of questions, send the decided ones? Pull out the highest priority questions and send those? Send them all? Revise them to cover all points in big questions and send that off? I want to get the community's interests addressed as best as I possibly can from the question submission angle.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 18, 2014 23:07:35 GMT
I say send, You've done your work, the questions are there. Lets see what they do with them.
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