|
|
Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 1:03:12 GMT
Recent events have left me wondering what exactly 22can's obligations are to kickstarter backers and SEA purchasers. I'd like to see 22cans clarify what they consider they are obligated to do because it appears to me that their attitude is that they prioritise revenue streams still to be exploited over people who are tapped out.
Personally I thought 22cans were obligated to:
• communicate and share formation
• finish the PC version of the game
• create a game that meets the promises made on kickstarter and the advertising on SEA
• create a game that is fun to play
• put PC first (ahead of mobile).
I'd be interested to hear from 22cans which of these they don't see themselves as obligated to meet. Personally I do not consider they have been forthcoming with information at any point in the development, they have made minimal progress on the PC version in the last 12 months, the game doesn't resemble what PM promised, it's not fun to play and they don't seem interested in addressing this, and PC is a long way down the priority list from mobile.
It therefore appears to me that 22cans consider they have no obligations and can do whatever the hell they want because we have no legal recourse.
This whole experience has destroyed my faith in kickstarter and SEA. Oh and Peter molyneux. Did I mention I was actually a fan of his before this? How sad.
|
|
|
|
Post by Danjal on Sept 18, 2014 11:29:34 GMT
Given the nature of crowdfunding and SEA they would be obligated to do the following: - Keep communications with backers/supporters open.
- Deliver the product that was promised/described - or provide a good accounting for why this is no longer possible.
- In the case of failure - account for where the money went. (Though what accounts for a failure isn't defined.
They aren't obligated to:
- Finish the game at all, specifically SEA denotes this - but even Kickstarter has provisions for this. Kickstarter only requires the fullfillment of the rewards to the best of the abilities.
- Put PC first - while SEA technically is a PC only project and should have nothing to do with iOS release based on the fact that it was sold as PC stand-alone for over a year, the kickstarter did include iOS, making this a shifty proposition.
- Create a game that is fun to play - this is a funny one, nowhere does it say the game has to be fun or enjoyable. So this isn't an obligation.
Now granted, I do agree that certain of the things they aren't actually obligated to do SHOULD be so. Specifically the PC focus and making an enjoyable game. Finishing the game is questionable since the "finished" state of a game is very vague, what defines Godus as 'finished'?
|
|
|
|
Post by Qetesh on Sept 18, 2014 12:13:11 GMT
Here is one...
Stop lying.
|
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 19:33:59 GMT
Here is one... Stop lying. Love it. I'm really interested in what 22cans consider their obligations are. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 19:43:07 GMT
Haven't those cheeky mods on the steam forums been cheekily hinting in a few of their cheeky responses to people asking about refunds/lawsuits/etc that the community doesn't really have a leg to stand on due to the Kickstarter/SEA verbiage? I know (at least in the US) that's hogwash and a class-action lawsuit would probably already be in the works, but I've always wondered just how long they would try to stick to their guns on statements similar to: "oh this is just a big misunderstanding" or "that word doesn't really mean what everyone thinks it means, here's how 22cans prefers to interpret that word in this instance" or "oh you cant sue us/get a refund, we're still going to do all those things we said we were going to do... someday... after the iOS sprint... and the Android sprint... etc." bs if they were facing remediation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Danjal on Sept 18, 2014 20:01:28 GMT
Thats the problem with lawsuits - unless you can find the SPECIFIC point to call them out on, its not gonna work.
And aside from the backers not getting their rewards. All else is vague enough that they can spin it along for a very long time.
Afterall, what is the time needed to "finish" a game? Its not determined... So what can a lawsuit achieve if the developer is technically still working on the game and its technically not yet released?
Or that they technically mentioned to people during the kickstarter pledge that it was supposed to be a mobile game.
Or that the SEA regulations specifically state that a developer is pretty much free in what they can do within the confines of the model...
|
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 21:16:04 GMT
Yeah enforcing legal obligations here is so impractical here so as to be irrelevant. I'm talking about moral obligations that 22cans accept they have or should accept they have. When you take someone's money you in advance of providing something there should be a joint understanding of what you are obligated to do. I think what this experience has exposed is that unscrupulous companies can convince themselves they have no obligations which is just sad.
|
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 21:17:37 GMT
Just to add to the above - 22cans treat anything they do for us at this point as charity as if they are only doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They forget that we already paid for a PC game that meets their advertising and that they should be working on nothing else until they deliver on that obligation.
|
|
|
|
Post by Qetesh on Sept 18, 2014 22:28:42 GMT
They defrauded the Alpha backers getting our exclusive access, a first year law student should be able to prove that and so really that is a foot to stand on. They should really watch what they say, many of us have screen shots saved.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 0:08:31 GMT
On the contrary. I think a formal inquest would get down to the "specifics" rather quickly. You can only hide behind forum double speak for so long.
That said, I'd suspect there is little intrinsic value in a lawsuit other than setting a legal precedence for future dirt-bag devs who have, blatantly or not, defrauded people.
|
|
|
|
Post by morsealworth on Sept 19, 2014 9:42:01 GMT
That said, I'd suspect there is little intrinsic value in a lawsuit other than setting a legal precedence for future dirt-bag devs who have, blatantly or not, defrauded people. Which is an important cause, though. |
|
