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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 18, 2014 2:33:30 GMT
Approximate launch date and version 1.0 announced. So much to my disappointment, Spacebase DF-9 appears to be folding and closing up shop, tossing in a tutorial and some goal system, doing some last ditch fixing/polishing, then opening up the code for modders and...That's all folks. As you might expect, many in the community aren't particularly happy to see this, considering some of the features they had mentioned striving for during the development and the very recent silence that had come up a few weeks ago. I think it goes without saying, if 22cans were to do the same with us, we'd be just as if not even more, upset at the decision. What do you guys think? An unfortunate state of affairs, I'd say, without a doubt. =/
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Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 2:47:12 GMT
Interesting. This is one of the games I held off on because of my experience with GODUS. Perhaps 22cans saved me some money.
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Post by hardly on Sept 18, 2014 2:49:49 GMT
I think the EA phenomenon had peaked. When the bad apples outnumber the good ones people stop buying, or in this case stop buying without knowing what they are buying. So would you recommend it GMR?
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 18, 2014 3:02:57 GMT
I think the EA phenomenon had peaked. When the bad apples outnumber the good ones people stop buying, or in this case stop buying without knowing what they are buying. So would you recommend it GMR? I haven't played it since the most recent updates, but last I checked, crew members' moods were all over the place causing them to get in fights and make it difficult to build things up and gather resources. Once that and some other bugs are fixed and it's a little more polished, which sounds like it'll come around next month, I'd say it might be. The only downside is that it still feels pretty shallow for its type of game. Here's a rundown of what you do: Build base. Mine asteroids to build base. Respond to random passersby requests to board, yes/no as base resources allow. Expand base to accommodate (via bedrooms/oxygen/energy/growing food/etc.) more crew members. Handle asteroid collisions (i.e. put out any fires they start). Handle intruders with security officers/security systems (kill/stun, if stunned, possibly bring over to your side). Explore random derelict vessels that appear (find stuff/salvage the ship for resources). Do research to get some mildly better stuff and cures to treat diseases. Uh...Do all that until out of research options and you run out of resources to build your base and/or your crew all goes insane killing each other, I guess? That's...really about all there is to it, I think. It's not really bad or boring or anything, but it just doesn't feel like it's as fleshed out as it could be. The derelicts, unless they've changed, don't really tell much if any stories. The asteroids are solid, there'll never be a surprise mining through them. The passersby may sometimes turn out to be pirates and if you reject them, sometimes they'll come aboard anyway, but that's about the extent of their variance from what I've seen.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Sept 18, 2014 6:01:14 GMT
I think this is the inevitable outcome for Godus, unfortunately. Given how long it takes 22Cans to produce any content whatsoever (how long have they been allegedly working on the balance tool now? A tool that, for all intents and purposes, appeared to be implemented in a workable state in test at the time PM was promising it to us over a month ago) there is no way they have time to build any substantial PC content, now or ever. I'm not sure Godus will ever come out of Early Acces before 22Cans goes bust, but if it does I think it will be extremely similar to what we've got now.
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Post by julians on Sept 18, 2014 6:45:11 GMT
Interesting. I do own DF9 and I think it's miles ahead of Godus in terms of gameplay value. I do agree that currently the only goal in it is to balance O2, power, food, etc. needs of your base and a random raid. Some objectives are going to be an interesting addition.
What is different between DF9 and Godus is that one did not have a KS and generally has a low profile, thus low cash injections, (even though it's backed by DoubleFine). Peak players for godus is 6k, for DF9 it's littel below 1K. DF-9 is made by something like 3 guys with additional help here and there. Communication wise I didn't get too much involved in DF9 community buy as a outsider I aways enjoyed alpha videos that came out with each version. All in all it seems like the guys had a clear goal in mind and with each release got closer to it.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 18, 2014 11:22:52 GMT
Interesting. I do own DF9 and I think it's miles ahead of Godus in terms of gameplay value. I do agree that currently the only goal in it is to balance O2, power, food, etc. needs of your base and a random raid. Some objectives are going to be an interesting addition. What is different between DF9 and Godus is that one did not have a KS and generally has a low profile, thus low cash injections, (even though it's backed by DoubleFine). Peak players for godus is 6k, for DF9 it's littel below 1K. DF-9 is made by something like 3 guys with additional help here and there. Communication wise I didn't get too much involved in DF9 community buy as a outsider I aways enjoyed alpha videos that came out with each version. All in all it seems like the guys had a clear goal in mind and with each release got closer to it. I agree on this. While it is definitely an unfortunate course of events, the situation isn't as dire as with Godus. I'd be more likely to compare it to Towns. And if their last-ditch polishing results in a more balanced game with subsequent opening of code to the public resulting in some future content generation. Its not entirely a lost cause. Though I do recall Spacebase having surfaced on bundles in the past, so its entirely possible that a significant number of users got it really cheap. That also does something to ease the hurt for PART of the users. A <$5 failure doesn't compare to a $20~25 failure.
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Post by Deth on Sept 18, 2014 12:01:11 GMT
I just brought the game recently while on sale on Steam. I had not realized that it was still in "beta", but having played it a bit I can see that. I am sad that it will not get as many features as they said it would but it is an OK game so far, but then I have not played it all that much.
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Post by julians on Sept 18, 2014 12:39:13 GMT
I just brought the game recently while on sale on Steam. I had not realized that it was still in "beta", but having played it a bit I can see that. I am sad that it will not get as many features as they said it would but it is an OK game so far, but then I have not played it all that much. It's in fact in Alpha, a little bit more honest definition from the developers. As opposed to Godus the released version if you look at iPad version (no betas in the app store as far as I know).
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Aron
Master
Posts: 125
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023768234/
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Post by Aron on Sept 20, 2014 13:02:59 GMT
Interesting. I do own DF9 and I think it's miles ahead of Godus in terms of gameplay value. I do agree that currently the only goal in it is to balance O2, power, food, etc. needs of your base and a random raid. Some objectives are going to be an interesting addition. What is different between DF9 and Godus is that one did not have a KS and generally has a low profile, thus low cash injections, (even though it's backed by DoubleFine). Peak players for godus is 6k, for DF9 it's littel below 1K. DF-9 is made by something like 3 guys with additional help here and there. Communication wise I didn't get too much involved in DF9 community buy as a outsider I aways enjoyed alpha videos that came out with each version. All in all it seems like the guys had a clear goal in mind and with each release got closer to it. df9 company is the same as from the brokenage disaster and the different in godus and df 9 is godus can be played for free or you pay upfront in df 9 you pay upfront but dont Forget they will release the sorce code this means sooner or later everyone will have the Chance to Play it free cause People like you payed for it
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Post by julians on Sept 20, 2014 13:43:54 GMT
Somehow I wouldn't call Broken age disaster (I don't own or backed it) I am involved in Massive Chalice KS and I'm very happy with how they're handling it. Updates come with certain frequency and they actually show off a great progress they have been making. Another difference between DF9 and Godus is that for one you pay upfront and for the outer you pay upfront and get a f2p game afterwards.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 21, 2014 15:47:12 GMT
Well the response to this over in the forums certainly turned into what one would expect, outrage and lots of unwarranted vitriolic rants. Some more level-headed responses to, but much of it's either intermixed together or drowned out by frustration. =/
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Post by Danjal on Sept 21, 2014 16:05:26 GMT
Thats the steam community and internet in general for you though... They'd respond with outrage and ranting even if a game turned out to be about 150~200% of what it originally set out to be and then the designers went: "Well, we would've liked to add more, but we really have to call it here."
You get 50~100% more game than planned at the outset - but oh noes! The developers could've done MORE?! UNACCEPTABLE! Same as with Towns, that game was pretty much what it was intended to become, minus some additional polish. People responded like the game was abandoned without ever having been made at all.
It'd appear that some do indeed take for granted that development takes time and that not every title will be a AAA-blockbuster/massive success.
On a similar notion, people comment that The Sims 4 is both worse looking than Sims 3 and "far less in content". While the looks are a bit cartoony, the game is vastly improved graphically (its just a different artstyle) and most of the lost functionality comes from the €650 worth of expansion packs =/ (Yes, the full Sims 3 with all content and level packs costs €705 on Origin when last I checked a week or so ago)
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 21, 2014 16:25:14 GMT
Thats the steam community and internet in general for you though... They'd respond with outrage and ranting even if a game turned out to be about 150~200% of what it originally set out to be and then the designers went: "Well, we would've liked to add more, but we really have to call it here." You get 50~100% more game than planned at the outset - but oh noes! The developers could've done MORE?! UNACCEPTABLE! Same as with Towns, that game was pretty much what it was intended to become, minus some additional polish. People responded like the game was abandoned without ever having been made at all. It'd appear that some do indeed take for granted that development takes time and that not every title will be a AAA-blockbuster/massive success. On a similar notion, people comment that The Sims 4 is both worse looking than Sims 3 and "far less in content". While the looks are a bit cartoony, the game is vastly improved graphically (its just a different artstyle) and most of the lost functionality comes from the €650 worth of expansion packs =/ (Yes, the full Sims 3 with all content and level packs costs €705 on Origin when last I checked a week or so ago) It's a really awkward situation with many of the Early Access titles, for sure. I don't think that most people confuse it with eventually turning into a huge triple-A success or anything, but I do think they confuse, often due to developer incompetence at communications, what will really be in the game and what won't and why this is the case. While in this situation I think this was the case of poor business handling on Double Fine's part, I do agree with Tim's response that to improve this in the future, they'll strive to be far clearer on the feature lists presented. However working along with that, I think, would be explaining why features may be cut at some point, even if they're in the category of being assured for release. It's very much like our situation with Godus. We're especially frustrated with some of the features disappearing from the game, not because we don't understand the idea of iterative development and all that stuff, but because that's a very lacking response. "Why was feature cut?" "Iterative development." "Okay, but why...?" "Iterative development." I guess that's slightly better than silence, but not by much. Also, Totalbiscuit's weighed in on the whole Spacebase fiasco.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 21, 2014 16:40:47 GMT
Well put it like this, I've seen so many people complain about artstyle and graphics "omg, its soo ugly".
Most devs end up getting lost in featurecreep. Adding and adding things that look cool, losing track of their goal.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 21, 2014 16:45:22 GMT
Well put it like this, I've seen so many people complain about artstyle and graphics "omg, its soo ugly". Most devs end up getting lost in featurecreep. Adding and adding things that look cool, losing track of their goal. Oh yeah, I heard that about Dishonored. I heard that about Age of Mythology. I heard it about many games of the past and present. It's all about the style, but for some strange reason people seem to expect everything to be photorealistic and super high res or something. That can be impressive, but only if it flows well with the overall stylistic design of the game.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 21, 2014 17:02:40 GMT
Interesting video from TB. He's definitely right that the model needs better rulesets and policing.
And people need to be less willing to jump on everything. Statistically SEA and crowdfunding are working great for me, only one big and a few small failures with mostly satisfactory results... On the whole? Yea there's a ton of developers that either are abusive or are incompetent. And the buyers/backers don't realize that.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 21, 2014 17:23:33 GMT
Interesting video from TB. He's definitely right that the model needs better rulesets and policing. And people need to be less willing to jump on everything. Statistically SEA and crowdfunding are working great for me, only one big and a few small failures with mostly satisfactory results... On the whole? Yea there's a ton of developers that either are abusive or are incompetent. And the buyers/backers don't realize that. Absolutely. On a general level, I only ever pick up Early Access titles in bundles, so I don't pay too much and I have a bunch of other games to compensate for if it turns out meh. Godus was the one exception to that, and I still only picked it up on 50% discount. Definitely seems many more don't play it safe that way.
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arryu
Senior Apprentice
Posts: 80
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Post by arryu on Sept 22, 2014 6:28:38 GMT
Thats the steam community and internet in general for you though... They'd respond with outrage and ranting even if a game turned out to be about 150~200% of what it originally set out to be and then the designers went: "Well, we would've liked to add more, but we really have to call it here." You get 50~100% more game than planned at the outset - but oh noes! The developers could've done MORE?! UNACCEPTABLE! Same as with Towns, that game was pretty much what it was intended to become, minus some additional polish. People responded like the game was abandoned without ever having been made at all. It'd appear that some do indeed take for granted that development takes time and that not every title will be a AAA-blockbuster/massive success. On a similar notion, people comment that The Sims 4 is both worse looking than Sims 3 and "far less in content". While the looks are a bit cartoony, the game is vastly improved graphically (its just a different artstyle) and most of the lost functionality comes from the €650 worth of expansion packs =/ (Yes, the full Sims 3 with all content and level packs costs €705 on Origin when last I checked a week or so ago) I believe most of the problems with towns wasn't the lack of polish, it was the game breaking bugs and crashes that were left unfixed when the dev did...whatever it was he did. As for the sims, my GF has been watching that game's development closely and I know that she's really excited for both the new create a sim and building tools. Both of those features have been vastly expanded and improved. BUT, and this is a big but, they've taken out many long standing parts of the game (such as pools and toddlers, among many others) and the suspicion around that is that EA will later release them as DLC. I do agree that while SOME gamers will demand more when the devs are gassed out, many others have legitimate complaints about how development was handled (or not handled, as the case may be) or what was lacking to make the game what it could/should have been without the need to add content as DLC or community content.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 22, 2014 11:38:44 GMT
When looking in regard to The Sims 4 - its quite obvious to me that in 2~3 years time, when they've added in all the content again. This version will probably be "the best" version of The Sims to date. It has a lot of potential. I definitely agree that EA will add in content through expansion packs and DLC.
I can only hope that they are wise enough to add in basic content such as the toddlers and pools themselves "for free" on launch of their "pools" or "toddlers" expansion packs. Similar as to how Paradox Interactive updates their games such as Europa Universalis IV with free content upgrades to overhaul the base game to both keep multiplayer functional and to lure people to buy the new expansion.
As for everyone else, simply wait till all the content is out and buy a vastly discounted collection package. Or if you can't wait, you'll have to deal with it.
Towns - which I do own myself - I feel is a lot more playable than some make it out to be. I've never had crashes of gamebreaking bugs. Yes they dropped it unfinished, yes they could've done more. They probably got to the point where they stopped through featurecreep. Trying to add more and more features that the community wanted without solving some of the complaints that people had. But guess what, if they fixed the core issues instead people would complain that the game was very bare bones and unfinished in that way.
Godus offends in both, it lacks content AND is unfinished. Atleast Towns is playable.
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