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Post by earlparvisjam on Sept 19, 2014 17:34:22 GMT
It looks like Kickstarter is trying to address the issue with problem projects with an update to their Terms of Use. What's everyone's take on this in relation to Godus? Since I'm not a KS backer, I thought I'd ask the question without trying to infer people's opinions on this. |
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Post by morsealworth on Sept 19, 2014 17:38:24 GMT
As I said, KS backers, call the Kickstarter staff to fill the lawsuit on backer's behalf. It's one of their jobs.
I'm a Paypal backer so I can't.
Wait.
Where do I sign?
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Post by Danjal on Sept 19, 2014 17:45:34 GMT
Its like I've been saying all this time. ANY exchange of goods, services rendered or currency is a contract...
While the terms of the contract aren't always as fixed, and sometimes extremely flexible.
That does not nullify the need for one party to deliver their part of the bargain.
Though ultimately, I doubt that this will do much for Godus retroactively.
I'm not sure how updated terms of service apply to ongoing projects. But generally the original terms would remain...
Even if these new terms would go in effect.
They'll keep spinning stories on how "they are still working on the product" and stuff like that.
HOWEVER - just so we're all clear on it.
Here is the relevant part to the "creator's obligations"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 17:54:28 GMT
Looks like Kickstarter just slammed the door on Godus 2: The Re-Genesis of the Kickstarter Fraud.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 19, 2014 17:58:32 GMT
Though ultimately, I doubt that this will do much for Godus retroactively That's the clincher right there. Generally, legally speaking, any new terms typically do not effect previous contracts or agreements - unless otherwise stated. Also, it's possible that, if either/both parties don't agree to the new terms then the contact may be considered null and void until/unless new agreeable terms are written and signed upon. Looks like Kickstarter just slammed the door on Godus 2: The Re-Genesis of the Kickstarter Fraud. Dammit. Careful with those underlines - I keep trying to click on that.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 18:01:25 GMT
Though ultimately, I doubt that this will do much for Godus retroactively That's the clincher right there. Generally, legally speaking, any new terms do not effect previous contracts or agreements - unless otherwise stated. Also, it's possible that, if either/both parties don't agree to the new terms then the contact may be considered null and void until/unless new agreeable terms are written and signed upon. Even though it doesn't effect previous projects, I think it's rather clear that there is a problem, and I'm glad they've begun to address it. I had my reservations about backing a Molyneux project, but I figured with his experience in the industry, there would be few missteps. Boy was I wrong.  |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 19, 2014 18:20:56 GMT
That's the clincher right there. Generally, legally speaking, any new terms do not effect previous contracts or agreements - unless otherwise stated. Also, it's possible that, if either/both parties don't agree to the new terms then the contact may be considered null and void until/unless new agreeable terms are written and signed upon. Even though it doesn't effect previous projects, I think it's rather clear that there is a problem, and I'm glad they've begun to address it. I had my reservations about backing a Molyneux project, but I figured with his experience in the industry, there would be few missteps. Boy was I wrong. "Would you like to dance?" "...Sure, what kind of dance?" "It's called Two Left Feet Improv." "That sounds like stumbling about..." "Oh no, it's fantastic, neither of us have to know what we're doing!" "But...Part of the fun of dancing is coordination!" "Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about!" ~both dancers promptly stomp about each others' feet and almost break each other's backs, as the rest of the crowd flees in confusion, terror, and anger at the audacity to call what's being done a dance of any sort~ |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 18:24:12 GMT
Even though it doesn't effect previous projects, I think it's rather clear that there is a problem, and I'm glad they've begun to address it. I had my reservations about backing a Molyneux project, but I figured with his experience in the industry, there would be few missteps. Boy was I wrong. "Would you like to dance?" "...Sure, what kind of dance?" "It's called Two Left Feet Improv." "That sounds like stumbling about..." "Oh no, it's fantastic, neither of us have to know what we're doing!" "But...Part of the fun of dancing is coordination!" "Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about!" ~bother dancers promptly stomp about each others' feet and almost break each other's backs, as the rest of the crowd flees in confusion, terror, and anger at the audacity to call what's being done a dance of any sort~ As a part-time professional International Ballroom Dance Instructor, I approve of this metaphor. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Sept 19, 2014 20:04:40 GMT
Sounds like Kickstarter has gotten wind of project godus and is drawing lessons for the future.
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Aron
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Post by Aron on Sept 23, 2014 10:26:51 GMT
is it enough if the procject starter do one of these things or all?
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tikigod
Master
Resistance is mean.
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Post by tikigod on Sept 23, 2014 11:38:47 GMT
How this applies to Godus essentially hinges on one thing alone....
Is this a Kickstarter policy change?
Or is this just clarifying and reinforcing the details of the legal situation between backers and project creators that has always existed?
If the former, then it likely can't be claimed to apply to 22Cans and Godus.
If the latter, then 22Cans could potentially be held to it and backers just got an strong indication that they may have something to go on now.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 23, 2014 12:54:03 GMT
I would say that is an official affirmation of the existing policy.
The way it was phrased before, it didn't put so much legal emphasis on it, now it does.
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Post by Deth on Sept 23, 2014 13:07:37 GMT
Also even if it did change there is no way to apply it retroactively. Godus can not be head accountable for rules that changed after the "signed" the original rules and completed their kickstarter. I would guess even current kickstarters that started before the rule change would be hard press to be held to the change as they did not agree to these new rules when they started their kickstarter.
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Aron
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Post by Aron on Sept 23, 2014 14:08:26 GMT
How this applies to Godus essentially hinges on one thing alone.... Is this a Kickstarter policy change? Or is this just clarifying and reinforcing the details of the legal situation between backers and project creators that has always existed? If the former, then it likely can't be claimed to apply to 22Cans and Godus. If the latter, then 22Cans could potentially be held to it and backers just got an strong indication that they may have something to go on now. These rules only for procject at the date from the new ruls |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 23, 2014 14:31:38 GMT
Yup. The rules didn't change, they just got written down because of the many people that squirmed out of the mutual understanding.
And such changes rarely take effect retroactively.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 23, 2014 17:24:09 GMT
Just so we're clear, these were the original terms under which Kickstarter operated: Steam post in which I previously referred to them taken from the Kickstarter FAQ at the time. I'll put some additional emphasis on this particular screencapture of what kickstarter creators were shown at the creation of their project:  As opposed to the revised "Creator's obligations" as quoted above. |
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