How would you tear apart and rebuild Godus? With a caveat.

I have no problem with buying a feature (with stickers) after it's been unlocked, but think it should be limited to unlocking cards that are optional, or are to do with follower technological progress.



Chests need followers to open them. Larger chests need ceremonies (special follower to do ritual) or festivals in order to open.
Make the world it's own. Don't cross the line generally.

I think that cards that affect the followers require stickers, but ones that give god powers should be sticker free.



Keep gems as a currency for real world goods / services, but never directly interchangable with belief.



Introduce a cap to belief, and have belief flowing in all the time. You can still run out, and usually faster, but it's never up to you to collect it.



Voyage rewards need to be more necessary, such as getting cards for follower abilities.



Follower happiness makes little sense to me, but godly happiness does. How about your followers have to make you happy, not the other way around. If you are a moody god, then you're power list will be limited to destructive spells, and a joyous god will only be able to rain on their parade.
While you are unhappy, followers will naturally work harder, but reproduce less. Your happiness bar always drifts towards the Angry, and only successful acts performed by your followers will raise it up. This could be were your followers evolve a code that wins your happiness through labour and winning at events. This is a new idea, so I'd have to really explore it before claiming it was anything but cloud thinking.

Beacons make sense at the moment, given the curated level design. Maybe tear this down if we go procedural land.



I don't have a problem with build timers, or replenish timers, but at least for the PC build, surely the time to breed a new miner goes down with population count, not up...?



Remove the cliff sculpting as a normal thing, and make it a power. Especially on mobile, it's very hard to sculpt what you want to sculpt after you have this power.

-Stickers (aesthetically and mechanically [i.e. drag and apply them to cards], not in terms of balance or acquisition methods ).
- - I would change the name of them to some physical or mental resource and just have a progress bar no some icon that sticks to a card.

-Chests.
--I am OK with the concept, I think I would change what is found in side to may books for the above mental resource or maybe even cards for the time line.

-Cards and the Timeline.
-- I would take all the cards off the time line and have categories. Such as god Powers, Abodes, Abilities, Advancements, ext. They would stack in piles so you would have to unlock the card above to get the card below and once I unlocked it then it would go up to the time line. So my time line might look like Basic Abode/Rain power/Swamp power/Finger of god/ Earthquake/Level 2 sand Abode where as someone else might look like Abode upgrade/Happiness upgrade/Rain Power/Tree Power/ Builder Settlement

-Gems
-- Change the name to tribute and change it to a belief like resource. Maybe interchangeable with belief.

-Belief/resource collection.
--I would like to see different auto collection methods at different Ages. First age might be a Shaman that walks around gathering it, the next age might have a temple that people walk to to "pray" at later ages we have angles that can fly around and gather it for us. 

-Voyages.
- I would like more variety. I would like to do some battles or maybe build a a settlement of a certain size in a certain amount of time or with enemies attacking you.

-Happiness.
-- I would like to see this being 2 sided a happiness/fearful meter it does not have to be good/evil. I am sure there could be ways of doing a good god that treats his followers well but still strikes fear in them if they do bad.

-Settlements.
--I liked the old way for more early age type settlements but like the new way for more late age city type settlements.

-Beacons.
-- I am ok but would like to see them as an outpost you build for bases of operations in the in the new area that maybe you can upgrade to a settlement over time.

-Timers (as a general, things will take time to do, not as in current balance figures).
-- Reduce them and hide them. I accept times in a game I just hate seeing them all over the place. Civ gets away with out times being so in your face. I understand it takes time for things to happen. I just do not need to see them all the time and have them be so long.

-Sculpting
-- Just needs some tweaking. It is OK to me for the most part just needs to be fine tuned.

engarde:

That's an interesting thought...Sounds like stickers would then become parts to a jigsaw puzzle card.

Raspofabs:

I haven't looked at the Timeline in awhile...Isn't that kind of how it operates now? Most follower-oriented cards seem to be primarily sticker-related, with a few being more resource node based (e.g. mines/fields/population).

I like the chest idea. Would you still have to uncover them for your followers?

God power cards...So belief to unlock or...?

Gems...That leaves a little left to be wondered. I think I somewhat agree for mobile. Not sure how you'd change that for PC though.

Good to see someone else agrees on the belief front. I'd much prefer something like what you describe.

Agree with Voyage rewards...Though the content itself related to getting to that reward also needs to be appealing in its own right.

Godly happiness seems pretty interesting, but it definitely would need to be worked out. As you describe it, it sounds like it risks shifting the control out of your hands, since you'd need to have the AI on a more functional level to better serve this. As happiness stands in its existing form, it's pretty broken since it falls more into a city sim than a god sim, which is pretty awkward for sure.

This could be a good step in the right direction, but it's a tightrope act, since it puts so much on the backs of your followers' behavior dictating your happiness and some of your abilities. It almost sounds like shifting it from massaging someone facing forward to trying to massage someone facing away.

I think you'd definitely be better suited to ditching beacons if you get around to a procedural design.

As to timers...Many things should go down with timeline advance/population increase/etc...

I can see where you're coming from with sculpting, but I think making it a separate power is kind of clunky. As might be expected, I prefer my own idea in regards to sculpt sketching. However, that's because I hate menu navigation. The more you can roll it into the game with gestures/combos, the better as far as I'm concerned.

Deth:
I think calling them by their actual names would improve things more. Forget the whole sticker name thing, call them the resources that they are (some would need revision):

-Social: chat bubble.
-Faith: cloud.
-Settlement: three points.
-Tech: wrench.
-Voyages: compass.

Sure they're a little abstract, but they fit better than broadly calling them stickers.

Chests, that's kind of an interesting idea in regards cards. Though I think that'd be more fitting for stuff like improved Voyages.

Cards/timeline. It sounds like you'd chop it up and flow it throughout the different god power categories, but with the addition of more civilization oriented ones introduced. Albeit you might mix that in under settlements. It's an interesting thought, and more organized now that they've drastically reduced the emphasis on progressing through the ages in the current Timeline.

Gems. That's along the lines I'd change it too, if it were to change to deal with more in-game elements.

Belief/resource collection. Whichever way this is approached, automation seems like a good idea to me.

Voyages. Variety=absolutely what I'd like seeing.

Happiness. More depth here via a fear component, but not necessarily good/evil would definitely be cool.

Settlements. That's an interesting compromise to make...And it makes a lot of sense to me. Good call.

Beacons. Similarly decent call here, having them be more than a throwaway influence expander would be a good idea for the handmade worlds.

Timers & sculpting. Absolutely agree on these.

Qetesh:

Store. I wouldn't mind this all that much either, myself. The intermediary currency just makes it too easy to turn the game into the shop instead of a game, so having an in-game shop of some sort but without an associated game currency, would be okay. That is, as long as it sticks to vanityware.

Don't have to say remove F2P stuff twice for me. =P

Followers more simlike as in autonomy sounds good to me.

Fuck collecting stuff for followers. Gotcha. Definitely agree on this front, automation > manual collection.

More extensive control is something I'd love to see too.

Voyages, more depth and interesting places, won't see me disagreeing.

Theme Hospital's great...But it sometimes felt a little hectic to me and it didn't always feel like I had that much control (at least when it comes to patient influx). Simply carrying over the ability to rather freely configure your buildings and the rooms, the equipment and all that is a level of control definitely lacking in Godus that it'd be great to see introduced in some way though.

Id like my people to grow their own settlements. Obviously there are constraints like available land that I can help the out with. They could ask me to shift a mountain or two or carve a new river and I would oblige. That's quite a big change.

A simpler change would be to take the current settlement mechanic and keep the initial step (creating the settlement) but after that change things to make growth automated. I'd have multiple professions in a settlement - farmer, builder, priest, warrior, hunter. Those might be the initial ones with changes coming later.

Farmers and hunters would gather food. The more food there is the bigger the settlement gets. Past a certain point a settlement would require other resources. Builders would be neceesary to expand (not enough builders slows settlement growth), priests gather belief and research tech - stickers and warriors protect the settlement and attack other settlements kind of like in settlers. Farms would surround settlements and therefore ariable land would be the major constraint for city size.

Anyway the settlement will expand upwards and outwards subject to having the necessary resources. Some resources (e.g. Ore) could buff warriors with weapons, some like paper could buff priests and luxuries could be necessary for happiness to unlock certain tiers. Luxury production could be linked to regions of the map and specialists who produce these luxuries and export them through your settlement network.

I'd like to see roads built connecting these settlements. When it's war time you'd throw down a totem and you could set the numbers of warriors to come to the totem. That way you could link armies to totems and set them on your enemies. When a settlement is attacked the non warrior enhabitants should fight although they would of course be relatively weak.

Just some musings.

1 - I 100% agree, if the followers had desires and free will - then the more we did to satisfy them. They would show us appreciation. This new "divine favor" type currency could be a "good" improved version of belief for special unlocks. Sacrifice giving an "evil" improved version of belief for special unlocks. Similar things can be done in various directions.
This would enforce the idea that we as a god make choices that affect our followers

2 - Having them condense would indeed not only be more aesthetically pleasing, but also better on system performance. Instead of 150 individual miners, you can get mining crews.
Besides, who makes a mine for themselves? It'd be a complete mess... Cooperation is key, thats why we started making settlements in the FIRST PLACE, so we could cooperate and share our strengths and resources.

3 - Keep the stickers, rename the stickers, get rid of them -  just have followers "research" the developments.

4 - Followers effect everything - it represents their happiness right? So why isn't it affecting them, only us? Its completely random right now, as if someone went into the game thinking "I need to find a quick and dirty solution to this problem." - without thinking of further repercussions to the enjoyment of the player.

In many ways it is. And its been brought up like that before...

Having individual followers settle in "favorable locations", and as such naturally forming clusters or groups around natural resources.
Some would settle near food (wild plants, animals to hunt), some settle near easy shelter (caves or easily accessible material), some settle near water (lakes/rivers/streams).
Thats how groups historically settle and cluster.

Subsequently as needs and resources arise, different priorities and foci result in a shift in where settlements start to cluster.
But always these key features remain:

1. There needs to be food to sustain the people. Be it hunting, gathering or agriculture.
   
2. There needs to be an abundant source of material to build with - usually this initially is wood, though clay/stone aren't unheard of.
   
3. Location, location, location. Be it roads or rivers for trade and transportation. Be it the source of key/critical resources or an easy accessibility to food.

In Godus it kinda just is "if we believe hard enough" - really, a settlement forms because of belief?

*WE* (the gods) tell them to make a settlement because *they* (the followers) believe enough in us?

Isn't that kinda backwards?

Its for that key reason that I've been saying that they need to rethink/overhaul their resources.

Not only does having building resources make sense from a game-perspective, but it allows the developers so much MORE control over how to direct the growth and expansion of the player.

The amount of resources available become direct limitations as to how you can expand. Food is a hard cap (you can't grow more if people starve due to lack of food).

Now lets say they don't want to go all RTS (and I say fine, makes sense...)

So how would we alter this?

For starters, natural resources are abundant in the game. You can have followers "collect" nearby resources to build their huts.

This would make logical placement become far more essential to where you build and would immediately cut down on the massive flattening of land and building of slum-districts early on.

Afterall - no wood = no houses.

It'd also make it so that cutting trees down for easy-belief becomes a concious decision. Do you want to inhibit the growth of your people for some quick belief?
Or do you choose to let your followers grow at their own pace?

Just having the concept of timber for building be in the game (even if we can't directly influence it) would directly affect the pacing of the game in a major way.

Moreover, because the followers would need to "collect" the wood. The timers to create a building would become directly proportionate to the resources available.

Granted, this would need the addition of animations to portray this and a way to "renew" trees early on or another early-resource to build with.

Step 2 - because buildings need resources not only to be build. But also to be maintained. It becomes essential that you keep such materials accessible.

And advancing to higher tiers of buildings becomes favorable as stronger architectural constructions will be both more durable aswell as less prone to damage.

Not only will a storm be less likely to damage it or destroy it outright, but they will be able to withstand a larger beating overall.

Because this damage and repair is a measurable amount. It makes the followers seem alive as they react to the world.

Step 3 - with buildings set, and "society" forming. Introducing a foodsource become key. Before, followers would "eat of the land" - but now that tasks are starting to be distributed the need for proper agriculture becomes key. Where resources are a soft cap, food is a hard cap. You can always expand and look for more wood, mud or clay to build with. But without food your people will starve. This becomes the backbone of pacing the game.

One that the player CAN directly influence by controling the amount of food flowing through his civilization, but at the same time one that is directly limited by available land and other outside criteria.

Now all of this can happen behind the scenes. It would never have to be something directly controlled by the player.

And as such would never need to be something that scares away mobile players.

Yet by relying on followers to handle the "earthly" side of things. And reserving belief exclusively for the "godly" side of things. Both balance and pacing become far more logical and easily managed.

Because be fair - the current timers and belief/gem costs on things are completely arbitrary. There's no logical sense to them.

Its like someone went around and just picked random values out of the air and entered them in on an incremental scale.

And many of the existing mechanics can be retrofitted to serve this.
Gem mining == woodcutting.
Farming plots can serve as little foresters plots where trees are grown if you really want to keep the systems.
Stickers can be repurposed (and don't have to be but could renamed/painted), just alter the underlying mechanics and tie them into the followers rather than the god.

Yea now if some other company would just come alone and steal all our ideas.

They put some pretty solid emphasis on how likely it is that they'd overhaul the homeworld content to any reasonable degree.

Thats the thing though. With the emphasis of "power through people" chosen, you are in many ways a divine leader...
Now B&W made mistakes - and those are mistakes to learn from.

Though I would say that being a magical diggingmachine doesn't really make you feel godly either.
Looking at a title such as "From Dust" - being able to just manipulate the land didn't make me feel like a god.
It made me feel like I was working at a constructionsite. Trying to poor cement and digging out foundations.

If all you're doing is trimming the hedges and planting the crops - you're little more than a divine farmer.
So thats not the way either.
And if you're doing all the resource collection you're merely a divine groundskeeper.


All of which are chores. Now correct me if I'm wrong. But most of us don't need Godus to get chores...
We got those in real life.
And Populous/Reprisal along with all the qualities that make them great games in and of themselves, also carry with them an extensive list of flaws and shortcomings that make them vastly inferior to other games in making you feel like "a god".

Which is to say, not all of us are looking for the same qualities when talking about "god games".
You want to avoid real-world analogues? Fine. But filling in random values on a timer isn't the solution.
And if as a developer you can't find a functional balance for your game - then relying on real-world analogues as a crutch often is the best way to move forward.


The big question is. Are you a god that derives its power from its followers?
Or are you a divine being that is omnipotent and allpowerful already?

If the latter - then why the hell are we being crippled at every turn? (hint, if you have all the power then the game would get boring as there was little progression, it'd just be a creative sandbox which a lot of players won't like even if some do like that)
On the flipside, other players dislike the concept of a god needing to rely on its followers to obtain power. Claiming that "I'm a god, why should I help you."
So the question is? Which is Godus?

And I think the answer is that in Godus, we're a divine creature that obtains power through worship, we are directly dependant on our followers to maintain our growth and through which we derive our divine energy and abilities.

These followers WILL need resources. Right now they live on what? Faith?
We're already seeing inherent flaws in the unbridled growth they exhibit.
The game can't handle it and it just becomes a massive drudge to repeat the flattening of land and expansion of settlements ad infinitum.

Introducing resources that are used, managed/maintained and distributed by our followers (NOT by us....)
They not only have goals and limits. But they also have a balancing measure.
No longer are you just blindly expanding. You as a god have a reason to manipulate the terrain into certain shapes or forms.

You NEED to provide suitable terrain for housing, but also for farming or for mining.
Different industries have different needs, and as our followers grow in stature, so do their desires and needs.
Which is directly influencing their prayer to their god (us, the players) and providing us with a wider selection of powers.
Rather than finding random pre-placed shrines, totems, temples and statues in the world - our power is directly influenced by our actions.


Please tell me - do you feel godly when your ability to plant a tree comes from a totem or rock on the ground?
I'd say that in that sense, Populous and Reprisal are FAR from godly. You're merely the focus which directs some pre-existing power into the world.


Instead, having you as a god slowly grow in power as your actions influence the world (and thus your followers in that world).
Starting off with limited powers of manipulation of the land.
But growing as your influence grows, branching out into manipulation of other objects and eventually even creation.
This balance between the world, the worshippers and the deity are what make a good godgame in my mind.
Not the solving of puzzles and obtaining of totems... If you get your powers from totems and statues you're little more than a magical apprentice following in someones footsteps.