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Post by earlparvisjam on Sept 29, 2014 19:54:09 GMT
I definitely think they are trying to wait us out/wear us down while they persue their agenda. Not only do they not discuss content/features with us they only announce content when they've decided it. I think it's important we keep active and try and draw new people to the forum. The more people who post/view here the more influence we'll have. That pretty much sums up the state of the Steam forums at this point. For a while, this board felt promising since it felt like there was more of a 22Cans presence and we could talk more candidly. Unfortunately, I think the developers have told so many tales that it's getting hard for the CMs to resolve the cognitive dissonance. For the most part, I get the feeling that they just wish this project was doing better than it is and that our complaints were unjustified rather than voices of reality shining spotlights on all the flaws. It's interesting how much this community has put up with. We were discussing Hubworld back in March/April as if it was a done deal (per PM's own words). Then, it was all about the AMA and how we'd finally start getting answers. That fizzled but we were promised clarity from the roadmap which turned out to be a big pile of pointless pixels. Then, we were handed the promise of the "pc sprint" and all the changes that were coming once the time came about. Finally, rather than address our long standing concerns, we were promised the magical balancing tool. It's still vaporware. The Arc push sounds interesting but really doesn't fit the narrative of the last 6 months. When have they had time to work on this radical departure? We've been told they were working on hardening the mobile release and all the plans for pc were pretty much fixing base bugs. They said they don't have enough people to split development to work on both. Now, all of a sudden, they have a series of totally new features out of the blue. Plus, none of it was in the roadmap at all. Are we supposed to just pretend we haven't had all these conversations or that we've been told all these things? How do they plan this AMA to be different than the one 6 months ago? Are people updating their resumes in the 22Cans office yet? Could someone explain just what the point of the opt-in build is? |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 29, 2014 20:53:29 GMT
You're trying to apply logic and rationale to this situation, which doesn't coexist within that context.
You're likely to get more answers from a ouija board or magic 8-ball.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Sept 29, 2014 21:06:49 GMT
I definitely think they are trying to wait us out/wear us down while they persue their agenda. Not only do they not discuss content/features with us they only announce content when they've decided it. I think it's important we keep active and try and draw new people to the forum. The more people who post/view here the more influence we'll have. That pretty much sums up the state of the Steam forums at this point. For a while, this board felt promising since it felt like there was more of a 22Cans presence and we could talk more candidly. Unfortunately, I think the developers have told so many tales that it's getting hard for the CMs to resolve the cognitive dissonance. For the most part, I get the feeling that they just wish this project was doing better than it is and that our complaints were unjustified rather than voices of reality shining spotlights on all the flaws. I think this might explain why they're posting so infrequently now. There have been a few occasions where Matthew/George have posted something that unwittingly contradicted something that had been said earlier, or had their posts picked apart in a way they considered overly pedantic. I understand why they'd feel frustrated about that, but the community is only reacting like this because we're trying to desperately glean some kind of meaningful information about what's going on and no one at 22Cans is willing to share. When 22Cans can only ever contradict themselves, say "Soon™" with a dopy emoji and post about updates that nobody asked for or could possibly get excited about, you can see why they'd just as soon go silent. PS is anyone keeping track of the backlog of things that 22Cans promised would be with us SOON? Hubworlds and the BFE are the two that I specifically remember PM talking about as though they were basically already out of the door but nothing has been said for a few weeks now. We can probably add the Video of Answered Questions to this. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 29, 2014 21:09:02 GMT
I just hope they're not gonna pull a "SEE! SEE! You're all being negative and bullies!"-card again.
I'm not sure what they expect when they delay every single 'deadline' they set for themselves...
But yea..
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Post by Crumpy Six on Sept 29, 2014 21:12:37 GMT
You can't con people out of money then cry when they aren't nice about it.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 29, 2014 21:16:58 GMT
I definitely think they are trying to wait us out/wear us down while they persue their agenda. Not only do they not discuss content/features with us they only announce content when they've decided it. I think it's important we keep active and try and draw new people to the forum. The more people who post/view here the more influence we'll have. What influence? On 22cans? Our influence has been next to nil, in terms of development direction. We may have gotten a couple CMs and a few other devs here, but the only thing that's done is create a piecemeal dialogue from time to time that stops at/with them. Maybe it crosses over a tiny amount in the CMs' reports, however I'm relatively doubtful even they're (both CMs and their reports) making any headway. If even our internal company reps aren't able to get anywhere, what's getting a few more people in the crowd yammering at them going to do? 22cans has taken on the dark matter of mobile and sprinted so hard with it, the inertia would throw them off course if they tried to redirect now. All we can hope for is that as they unload, their momentum can eventually be shifted back to us, but will they listen even then? It's hard to say, since I don't think we've really ever seen them listen to anything regarding the design or development. Have a bug report? That they'll listen to, anything else? Yeah go ahead, we'll record it...And maybe get around to doing something with it...Maybe. PS is anyone keeping track of the backlog of things that 22Cans promised would be with us SOON? Hubworlds and the BFE are the two that I specifically remember PM talking about as though they were basically already out of the door but nothing has been said for a few weeks now. We can probably add the Video of Answered Questions to this. Let's see, outside of those... -Complex AI/learning AI. They've been ragging on this forever, but nothing's come of it. Cycling over canned life animations which may be influenced by some underlying AI to determine which animation plays hardly counts, in my book. I think this was claimed to be something soon back in October/November of last year. Then more recently in the Yogscast "interview". -Dynamic water. We've finally got the foundations in, but it's still undeveloped, despite being something of an obsession since early in development. -Wind patterns. Not sure if this was ever a soon thing, however since it accompanies changing the ocean/sea currents by sculpting about the coasts, you'd think it was. Maybe I'm unobservant, but I have seen nothing to indicate, really, any wind in Godus. Maybe I don't light enough stuff on fire. Those are just a few off the top of my head. They may not really count, but they do fit with PM speaking as though they were already present. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 29, 2014 21:26:20 GMT
Ah, ok - so the Arc/Ark update isn't even out yet?
That means we are waiting on;
Hubworlds
BFE
Arc/Ark
Steam Workshop
and all that is tentative to them getting this iOS8 excuse clusterfudge fixed.
The closer we inch towards the holiday season, the more my deja-vu flashbacks occur.
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Post by earlparvisjam on Sept 29, 2014 21:42:26 GMT
Ah, ok - so the Arc/Ark update isn't even out yet? That means we are waiting on; Hubworlds BFE Arc/Ark Steam Workshop and all that is tentative to them getting this iOS8 excuse clusterfudge fixed. The closer we inch towards the holiday season, the more my deja-vu flashbacks occur. You forgot the PC sprint that was supposed to kick off this fall. Oh, and commandments which PM keeps bringing up when he runs out of other things to say are coming soon. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Sept 29, 2014 21:50:10 GMT
Ah, ok - so the Arc/Ark update isn't even out yet? That means we are waiting on; Hubworlds BFE Arc/Ark Steam Workshop and all that is tentative to them getting this iOS8 excuse clusterfudge fixed. The closer we inch towards the holiday season, the more my deja-vu flashbacks occur. Wasn't it about the same time last year that they went deadly silent for months? |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 29, 2014 22:05:25 GMT
Ah, ok - so the Arc/Ark update isn't even out yet? That means we are waiting on; Hubworlds BFE Arc/Ark Steam Workshop and all that is tentative to them getting this iOS8 excuse clusterfudge fixed. The closer we inch towards the holiday season, the more my deja-vu flashbacks occur. You forgot the PC sprint that was supposed to kick off this fall. Oh, and commandments which PM keeps bringing up when he runs out of other things to say are coming soon. And then there's the Jupitersized world, complex & engaging gameplay, relevant choices, familiars and so on. (Basicly check the Kickstarter page for missing features.) |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Sept 30, 2014 3:40:34 GMT
Ah, ok - so the Arc/Ark update isn't even out yet? That means we are waiting on; Hubworlds BFE Arc/Ark Steam Workshop and all that is tentative to them getting this iOS8 excuse clusterfudge fixed. The closer we inch towards the holiday season, the more my deja-vu flashbacks occur. Wasn't it about the same time last year that they went deadly silent for months? I haven't gone back to check, so this might be off slightly (needs verification). I believe that, after the initial Steam Early Access launch and after v1.3 (Sept 2013) there were intermittent weeks of no communication - and their excuse was handling support issues from the SEA. The community almost ripped itself apart in October, they chimed in with some posts about upcoming things and did a bunch of PR fluff bits and videos. They went really quiet around mid-November 2013. Again the community went into a rage and they chimed back in, they posted a few videos stating that there were updates coming and they were redoing the card collection book (somewhere in there they vaguely stated they needed time to work on things). And then they promptly popped off for the holidays by going almost completely silent until late February 2014, and then released a complete overhaul with v2.0 that changed the tons of stuff, like the promised book (now a timeline), while changing things nobody expected (like settlements), and yet didn't address any of the fundamental issues with the game. Sound about right? |
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Post by hardly on Sept 30, 2014 8:32:15 GMT
I've asked a number of times to see the summary reports that are prepared by the community team for peter and Jack. After all it would take no time to simply post a couple of examples of these to show our concerns are being passed on. Strangely this like other reasonable requests (definitive informations about pc analytics anyone?) seems to be ignored.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Sept 30, 2014 16:41:44 GMT
Wasn't it about the same time last year that they went deadly silent for months? I haven't gone back to check, so this might be off slightly (needs verification). I believe that, after the initial Steam Early Access launch and after v1.3 (Sept 2013) there were intermittent weeks of no communication - and their excuse was handling support issues from the SEA. The community almost ripped itself apart in October, they chimed in with some posts about upcoming things and did a bunch of PR fluff bits and videos. They went really quiet around mid-November 2013. Again the community went into a rage and they chimed back in, they posted a few videos stating that there were updates coming and they were redoing the card collection book (somewhere in there they vaguely stated they needed time to work on things). And then they promptly popped off for the holidays by going almost completely silent until late February 2014, and then released a complete overhaul with v2.0 that changed the tons of stuff, like the promised book (now a timeline), while changing things nobody expected (like settlements), and yet didn't address any of the fundamental issues with the game. Sound about right? In my experience the silence was longer but I am also not going back to check. |
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Post by banned on Oct 5, 2014 21:36:51 GMT
I wish there was something but I honestly just can't think of anything to say. Also I've been real busy adjusting to my new job and new surroundings and I don't have the amount of time I used to have to do stuff here. Most days recently around 8pm my lights start to fade out and I'll move to the bed and be asleep by 9. sleep is the mind killer,... oh, wait, that's fear, never mind, carry on. |
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