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Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 27, 2014 20:50:07 GMT
Instead of dragging the BFE collaboration thread off topic, I thought it might serve us well to figure out how we might prefer to see the resource system change, going off the basis that the recent Q&A videos have shown some recognition of this need from 22cans themselves.
Currently, we have two resource systems overlapping each other.
We have the metaphysical:
Stickers, belief.
Somewhere in-between:
Gems.
The physical:
Wheat, ore, followers.
A common agreement is that the metaphysical resource system is fundamentally broken both in terms of balance and aesthetic design. Provided this assessment, the strong reaction is to outright remove half of it, in favor of replacement with belief alone.
Less discussed, I've found, is that the physical resource system is likewise fundamentally broken in balance, but in a few more subtle, insidious ways. In counting not the resources gathered, but neither the size nor the number of the resource nodes (e.g. mines/fields) the timeline costs are as bad as those found with stickers.
From those few who do observe these physical resource problems, their common agreement, at least from what I have observed (as is the case with the above as well), has been to revise the game to recognize the size of the nodes to improve the situation.
Nevertheless, ignoring in both instances the timers or the random nature of the resource acquisition for the moment, we can strike at some core problems. I'll provide some examples of my thoughts later, but I'm much more interested in seeing what yours are, as mine are not likely to be entirely airtight or foolproof in any way.
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Post by Danjal on Oct 27, 2014 21:05:42 GMT
I've gone over similar suggestions in *this* thread. Many of which is still valid - and I still agree with. Also, there's quite some overlap with what you type above. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 27, 2014 21:10:30 GMT
I've gone over similar suggestions in *this* thread. Many of which is still valid - and I still agree with. Also, there's quite some overlap with what you type above. Yeah, this is why I didn't immediately crosspost this, but seeing as the Steam thread's slow to take off, I thought why not. =P (I should note, however, that while I'm refraining from carrying over the bulk of my own thoughts and removing the spoiler tags in the Steam thread, I have slightly more elaborate thoughts regarding the metaphysical resources, as I call them.) |
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Post by Danjal on Oct 27, 2014 21:27:31 GMT
Well, the problem I've found with elaborating on idea's is that 22cans (and their minions) will simply dismiss them - OH NOES! You're trying to dismiss the idea's of Molyneux the almighty! (I mean, clearly if you have something to suggest that may improve the game, you're just hating on what is there right?)
Frankly, I've come to the point where I've simply stopped bothering going into the details.
There's far too many concepts to elaborate on, and it just becomes a jumbled unorganized mess.
Not to mention, people won't bother to read it at all, they'll scan over half - draw their conclusion, then comment on that one thing you typed wrong or they misinterpreted.
Whichever way it ends up going. Much like with the thread talking about the RTS/micro-management depth, I feel that 22cans has chosen the wrong focus by enforcing monetization and freemium mechanics over creating an actual interesting and enjoyable game.
And its that focus that prevents Godus from stepping into its full potential on PC especially. (Its a smaller obstacle on mobile, because people are willing to take far more shit when its a 'game' they'll only look at a few minutes a day and doesn't cost them anything going in.)
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Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 29, 2014 0:55:10 GMT
Regarding Metaphysical Resources
Aside from the obvious need for a facelift of some sort, I think a more reliable method of generating these resources would prove more beneficial than switching solely to belief in this area. Belief, as far as I'm concerned, should be for the active expression of divine power, whereas the accrual of metaphysical resources should pertain primarily to your empowerment and more substantial civilization improvements.
I think if you play well enough, the use of these resources could allow you to greatly accelerate the advance of your civilization over others, instead of acting as a design leash to mete out the pace of our progress.
These could be produced in a variety of ways, intermixed with belief generation (representing say, follower prayers/ideas, or what have you) and abode locations, through physical resource sacrifice/tribute, and so on. In general though, these would be passively accrued instead of actively gathered, and supposing they were generated in part by structure location, the construction itself could provide you with a fair amount of the relevant resource(s) with a small trickle of it thereafter.
Excess amounts of these resources could be used, as noted, to jump your civilization ahead or do whatever else you might like, customize the look of your land, the strength of your abilities, etc.
Regarding Physical Resources
In this area, I've made my ideas known, but I'll reemphasize them here, I think that much like the number of followers not the number nor size of abodes unlocks stuff in the timeline, so too should the amount of physical resources gathered unlock stuff. In much the same way that followers are automatically accounted for, I think resources should be automatically gathered. Similar to Black & White, however, if you want you can intervene to boost yield occasionally, but it would not be necessary.
In a similar vein, all incremental timeline upgrades (e.g. crop rotation/advanced farming, bigger abodes, voyage ship capacity, etc.) would be fueled by these resources not metaphysical resources. Metaphysical resources would concern say, the leap from mud to wood, but not what comes after nor in-between the two, this would be more follower-driven and would, in my opinion, make more sense and give followers more life.
By putting demands on the resources in this way, it would resolve the skyrocketing inflation problem produced by limiting them to the production and repair of abodes among other things, but wait, we've not addressed one other part that also inflates in the same manner. Followers.
Now we can be evil and say sacrifice them, but that creates another issue, a great drain on belief for minimal reduction in inflation. We need to consume followers in some way. There are a few ways to address this.
First, combat. They get into conflict, they die. Great.
Second, disease. They pollute the land, they makes themselves sick, they die. Great.
Third, sacrifice. We're tired of them, let's off them either for gain or to be rid of them. Okay...
Fourth, mortality. They last awhile, then they die. Great.
Personally, all of these sound appealing to me in some way, and could be given depth in various ways. Combat could be through conquest or insurrection, disease could be from your own pollution or others' sabotage, sacrifice could be overriding their will or self-sacrifice to transcend into metaphysical resources, mortality could lead to follower progression via experience or a greedy god that prefers high numbers with short lives to advance faster, and so on.
TL;DR: Divide the timeline into a cultural double helix of follower-driven civilization progression (physical resources) that you can loosely aid and guide, alongside a mutually complementary ideological progression (metaphysical resources) that shapes your powers without being over-burdened by more earthly demands. In this manner, you might be able to satisfy the interests of those more captivated by focusing on their followers while simultaneously satisfying the interests of those captivated by the idea of playing their own unique deity.
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