Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 2, 2015 20:53:15 GMT
You could have the priest have certain powers of his own and cast them 'intelligently' without having to constantly concern yourself with it, leaving god to do his own stuff. I'm not so sure if only being able to cast spells within the priest's range would prove to be a fun or useful mechanic. Would that also mean no sculpting without priest? I do hope sculpting isn't included as priest power, but another current gameplay issue is the enemy are easy to pick off in water, all you have to do in combat is make a water barrier and station troops at its edge. I can't think of a solution to that, so I hope Moo has one, or can anyone else think of something? Amphibious tanks. |
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Post by morsealworth on Feb 2, 2015 20:58:58 GMT
Spacing Guild solves all problems with transportation. Wait.
Then again, there should be ability to build boats, right? Even ancient Egyptians managed to do that right at the shore.
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Post by Spiderweb on Feb 2, 2015 21:11:55 GMT
Spacing Guild solves all problems with transportation. Wait. Then again, there should be ability to build boats, right? Even ancient Egyptians managed to do that right at the shore. Awesome, boat with archers, get rid of swimmers! Introduce sharks! Awesome (yes twice). |
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Post by darkmoondragon on Feb 2, 2015 22:25:11 GMT
I second that the heavy lifting such as sculpting not be done by the PriestMoses/Prior but it's fine with me if he wants to water the wheat plains, collect belief or harvest ore and wheat, perhaps some kind of interface could assign tasks to the little guy. If he is akin to Moses as FuriousMoo says he should be amenable to commands.
Yeah, it would be cool if you could input instructions to him and he should be overwhelmed with gratitude to be hearing from his "god." Hop to, Prior!
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Post by FuriousMoo on Feb 3, 2015 13:43:08 GMT
No I wouldn't include sculpting as part of the 'priests' enabling radius. And the water barrier strategy you outlined I would consider a viable one. It's situational, but if the player can build themselves a moat why would I want to prevent them from doing that. Seriously. I mean, who's the god here - us or the priest? As for this, well I think it still works both mechanically and thematically. I have already given the Moses example, but the concept of a god not being omnipotent and having very real limits is a common thread both in traditional mythology and fiction. The concept of a god only having influence where its faithful are is not something I dreamt up myself. |
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Post by Aynen on Feb 3, 2015 19:41:27 GMT
No I wouldn't include sculpting as part of the 'priests' enabling radius. And the water barrier strategy you outlined I would consider a viable one. It's situational, but if the player can build themselves a moat why would I want to prevent them from doing that. Seriously. I mean, who's the god here - us or the priest? As for this, well I think it still works both mechanically and thematically. I have already given the Moses example, but the concept of a god not being omnipotent and having very real limits is a common thread both in traditional mythology and fiction. The concept of a god only having influence where its faithful are is not something I dreamt up myself. beyond the lack of power being justifiable in mythology, you have to consider the power fantasy that gamers are looking for when they boot up a godgame. Being a powerful wizard with limitations isn't that fantasy. Unbridled godpower is. Therefor the obstacle being overcome should perhaps not be when and how to unlock some power, but rather dealing with the aftermath of having too much of it. |
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227 
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Feb 18, 2015 15:34:46 GMT
Combat in a god game, to me, is about seeing the outcome of setting up the emotional relationship between rival creeds. All the combat tactics and strategy proficiency come about because the AI has a boost, not from player skill. A god wins a war because it's the inevitable outcome of a war at that time. Gods practice patient building of a scenario and then watch the fallout.
To that end, the idea of using big damaging powers against followers, doesn't make much sense other than to make you win a battle and not the war. If you choose to use a big meteor power, I would prefer that followers respect goes up, but so does their fear, which makes them worse at combat on their own. The best way to fight, to win this and all future battles, is to coax your followers into combat just as they are in the right position, which gives them the feeling of strength, and the experience to increase in their skill.
In a way, combat could be a way to teach a moral lesson. A story much like the tale of giving a man a fish, or giving him a net.
Powers:
powerful powers have a limited number of uses and a lockout at the start.
subtle powers have no cost, but have a recharge timer.
middling powers recharge their number of uses over time.
Subtle:
Pilgrimage : like beautify, but used like a pheromone trail for your followers and warriors.
Baptise : convert one follower to your creed - need to be near one of your followers for the "word" to take hold.
Middling:
Aggravate / Tolerate : tilt the feeling of the population towards or against another god's people.
Fertile : more people per abode (use to increase population count, but also to increase the rate at which intolerance takes hold)
Warrior temple : convert a single abode / settlement into a warrior abode. All the worker followers in this abode are warriors, and act as an army. If they are defeated in battle, there is a chance the building will be razed and the followers will switch sides.
Cathedral : convert a single abode / settlement into a church to you. All the worker followers in this abode are priests who can be sent as missionaries to convert to you, or can be kept at home to increase morale, or raise or lower anger against other creeds.
Powerful:
Raise sea : make land more scarce, natural disaster can neutralise a feeling of unrest against other creeds as it's a common enemy.
Armageddon : regardless or feeling. The time is now for genocide.
Enemy strengths:
The enemy can win by being literally stronger at combat, or by converting your followers to their creed (high fear with low respect can make this a difficult foe to defeat)
Enemies that have more land have more resources, but they are likely to be more tolerant. You may have to stall your people from attacking out of spite before they are powerful enough to overcome the enemy.
Enemies that have a very small but strong force won't switch sides, but they might grow rapidly if you don't take them out with your first fight. Defeated armies sometimes could defect to the other creed, meaning that you might want to split your armies.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 18, 2015 19:05:26 GMT
Combat in a god game, to me, is about seeing the outcome of setting up the emotional relationship between rival creeds. All the combat tactics and strategy proficiency come about because the AI has a boost, not from player skill. A god wins a war because it's the inevitable outcome of a war at that time. Gods practice patient building of a scenario and then watch the fallout. I have to agree and disagree with you here. I would say tactics and strategy are key indicators of a player's skill. If the outcome is inevitable then a player would either always win or always lose. And if a player wouldn't have to do anything in order to ensure a victory then there wouldn't be much of a game. To that end, the idea of using big damaging powers against followers, doesn't make much sense other than to make you win a battle and not the war. If you choose to use a big meteor power, I would prefer that followers respect goes up, but so does their fear, which makes them worse at combat on their own. Shouldn't their fear go down when they see god powers being used against their enemies and instead give them more courage? The best way to fight, to win this and all future battles, is to coax your followers into combat just as they are in the right position, which gives them the feeling of strength, and the experience to increase in their skill. You can position your fighters in a way that you think is optimal, but when the time comes to strike it might turn out that the enemy has some tricks up the sleeve. In fact, it SHOULD not be possible at any time to determine for 100% just what strengths the enemy has and where they are located. That would keep the game a lot more interesting. In a way, combat could be a way to teach a moral lesson. A story much like the tale of giving a man a fish, or giving him a net. Powers: powerful powers have a limited number of uses and a lockout at the start. subtle powers have no cost, but have a recharge timer. middling powers recharge their number of uses over time. Subtle: Pilgrimage : like beautify, but used like a pheromone trail for your followers and warriors. Baptise : convert one follower to your creed - need to be near one of your followers for the "word" to take hold. I like the idea of the pilgrimage. It would be a good way to get your followers to a location while telling them which route to take. That should ease up on a lot of path finding processing as well. The baptising kinda reminds me of my favourite weapon from Syndicate. The persuadertron! I just loved walking around entire levels having all the populace following me around. I think a priest could have that sort of functionality built in, albeit in a diminished capacity. I don't see the appeal in using it as a god power though. Middling: Aggravate / Tolerate : tilt the feeling of the population towards or against another god's people. Fertile : more people per abode (use to increase population count, but also to increase the rate at which intolerance takes hold) Warrior temple : convert a single abode / settlement into a warrior abode. All the worker followers in this abode are warriors, and act as an army. If they are defeated in battle, there is a chance the building will be razed and the followers will switch sides. Cathedral : convert a single abode / settlement into a church to you. All the worker followers in this abode are priests who can be sent as missionaries to convert to you, or can be kept at home to increase morale, or raise or lower anger against other creeds. I don't really have any comments here. Powerful: Raise sea : make land more scarce, natural disaster can neutralise a feeling of unrest against other creeds as it's a common enemy. Raising the sea level would make life for your own followers harder as well. How about a tidal wave instead? Select option "water power", click on water surface, hold button for power build up, swipe mouse determining speed and direction, let go of button. Total belief cost could be calculated as base cost * build up * speed. Total destruction would depend on starting location, direction of swipe, the lay of the land and the force behind the wave. (which is in itself determined by build up and speed of swipe) Armageddon : regardless or feeling. The time is now for genocide. Enemy strengths: The enemy can win by being literally stronger at combat, or by converting your followers to their creed (high fear with low respect can make this a difficult foe to defeat) Enemies that have more land have more resources, but they are likely to be more tolerant. You may have to stall your people from attacking out of spite before they are powerful enough to overcome the enemy. Enemies that have a very small but strong force won't switch sides, but they might grow rapidly if you don't take them out with your first fight. Defeated armies sometimes could defect to the other creed, meaning that you might want to split your armies. No comments at this time. |
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Post by darkmoondragon on Feb 18, 2015 20:29:33 GMT
Lord Ba'alPersonally I can see where use of meteor could raise fear in the Followers. No one knows for sure what the motives of a god are. It's not like troops with cannon or a division of tanks. However, proximity of the "priest" could serve to neutralize that fear for Followers in the vicinity. In fact if there were monks, or some kind of priest followers, while they would wield no power, they might have the same effect of neutralizing fear. This would add additional strategy. In the event of the priest's death, one of the monks could ascend as the next priest. Your other thoughts are well taken. And the priest said, "Fear not, that is but the wroth of your true god."
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Post by Danjal on Feb 24, 2015 22:08:10 GMT
Combat in a god game, to me, is about seeing the outcome of setting up the emotional relationship between rival creeds. All the combat tactics and strategy proficiency come about because the AI has a boost, not from player skill. A god wins a war because it's the inevitable outcome of a war at that time. Gods practice patient building of a scenario and then watch the fallout. **snip** As always, some great suggestions... A direction that I could actually see 'work' as opposed to the concepts that have been pushed down the freemium monetization focus before. =/ Its still quiet apparent that because its so unclear what people "expect" from a god-game, the whole balancing act between direct intervention and micro-management versus a more indirect playstyle with good AI is in constant conflict. Lack of budget, time and skill necessitates the need for more direct control by the player, because flawed AI leads to frustration which in turn makes it favorable to give the player more control. But this strays away from the concept of a godgame where the player is very powerful (even when in a diminished state) - yet this power doesn't always lead to an "I-WIN" button. I particularly agree with the subtle powers vs stronger powers. The need to have some basic powers that are always accessible or on a small cooldown timer enforces the concept that you are a god. You are *NOT* a merchant trading in favours or currency. It is these basic powers that allow you to constantly nudge and influence the world. It is also these subtle powers that help you initially "nudge around" the people in the world. People that are at their core not your loyal followers (yet...), you influence them and win them over. And in return they devote some part of their existence to worshipping you. As you progress and your follower pool grows you gain access to a pool of belief, this enables you to do more powerful things. At this point the strategic focus shifts and/or grows to encompass a competative layer as slowly rival tribes and/or gods enter the stage. This also ties into the appealing concept of the original Jupitersized World. Even if the actual practice of the Jupitersized World is no longer attainable, you can still achieve the base concept that was described. You start off settling in and growing your tribe, as you expand and explore you encounter new things - these new things could be resources, could be challenges and could also be rival entities (whatever shape they may take). I'm speaking for myself here, but its that concept that made the Jupitersized World appealing, the slow progression and exploration that culminates in meeting others and then dealing with them. Dealing with them the way you see fit (whether this is peaceful, neutral, hostile or otherwise). Do you kill them? Do you trade with them? Are they even willing or able to trade? Can you learn from them or teach them new concepts? I understand that the scope of Godus, especially in its current state, limits a lot of the options - but that does not mean that we should not consider them. Its by considering what the game *COULD* become and then having the developers acknowledge what they can or can't do within the budget and constraints that we reach the best of both worlds. And that Godus may become something more than the freemium whaletrap it is today. There are a lot of concepts that could benefit the game. And I stand by the fact that a focus on story at this point in time is wrong. Since story does not benefit a broken game. I truely hope that I'm wrong in predicting that the project is forced to a close, but thus far my skeptical predictions have pretty much been spot on... And I can only hope that Raspofabs will be allowed to assist FuriousMoo and the remaining team - because I can only see good things come from that... Even if its only in an advisory state. |
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