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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 19, 2015 19:21:47 GMT
Lord Ba'al and/or Qetesh; Can you please move my posts from the Dev Thread about Narrative - and any others you feel relevant?I think it's a worthwhile discussion that deserves it's own thread topic. Or, just move them to the other Dev thread drift topic and delete this. Or, leave them there for posterity and I'll just copy them over here and edit this topic post as needed.
How does Religion and Mythology fit in the Godus story narrative? EDIT: Reposted from ***Community Design: Narrative in Godus--DEV THREAD***So words like 'messiah' need to become 'messenger of God' or 'divine mouth' or some other term not currently in use in the real world. I take it we also have to avoid story that enforces the creation of extra objects in the game? Perhaps Avatar, Icon, or even Fount would work fine - and prefix any of those with Holy, Sacred, Divine, etc. - and Deus or Diety could always work in place of "God". Hmm, that's an interesting point about how the religious terminology and settings affects the overall game theme/story; essentially, you need to decide if it is truly going to be "religion neutral". You can't claim it's "non-religion specific" and yet include typically Christian Holiday themes, and not include other religious iconography and observational holidays - like Hanukkah or Kwanzaa. (well, you can because it's your game, but it might not be wise if you wish to attract an international community). You may have to decide to incorporate a wide variety of known belief symbology and terms, or forgo it completely and try utilizing more neutral, or even fictional, religious stigmatic themes and mythos. EDIT: I see FuriousMoo is already thinking about it, as per below. I have often thought about having a game with a loose set of mythos, that provides a sort of sandbox style "choose your own path", wherein there are a number of choices that can can be selected in a sort of "skill tree" format (I suppose similar to Civilization's social policies) which dictate and denote the mythology and religious contexts. This could essentially be how the Commandment system would incorporate with the story and affect gameplay.
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Post by Qetesh on Jan 19, 2015 20:14:58 GMT
FuriousMoo wants a more free form approach to that DEV thread and so for now, nothing is getting moved. If it needs to, I will use this one.
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jan 19, 2015 22:18:57 GMT
Lord Ba'al and/or Qetesh; Can you please move my posts from the Dev Thread about Narritive - and any others you feel relevant? I think it's a worthwhile discussion that deserves it's own thread topic. Or, just move them to the other Dev thread drift topic and delete this. Or, leave them there for posterity and I'll just copy them over here and edit this topic post as needed. I'm confused. What would you like me to do?
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 20, 2015 4:56:08 GMT
Lord Ba'al and/or Qetesh; Can you please move my posts from the Dev Thread about Narritive - and any others you feel relevant? I think it's a worthwhile discussion that deserves it's own thread topic. Or, just move them to the other Dev thread drift topic and delete this. Or, leave them there for posterity and I'll just copy them over here and edit this topic post as needed. I'm confused. What would you like me to do? Sorry for the confusion. Nevermind though, as Quetesh already scolded me. I posted that while at work, and then spent the evening cleaning my computer and installing some case fans, so I haven't followed up until just now (right before bed) I'll just post some thoughts here myself tomorrow evening for discussion on this topic.
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Post by greay on Jan 20, 2015 5:48:44 GMT
I have often thought about having a game with a loose set of mythos, that provides a sort of sandbox style "choose your own path", wherein there are a number of choices that can can be selected in a sort of "skill tree" format (I suppose similar to Civilization's social policies) which dictate and denote the mythology and religious contexts. This could essentially be how the Commandment system would incorporate with the story and affect gameplay. whatever happened to the commandments? Wasn't that next on the roadmap ... back ... a very long time ago? The commandments seemed to me like the thing that had the most hope of turning Godus into an actual god game, and I do really like the idea of tying the narrative into it.
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Post by Qetesh on Jan 20, 2015 6:08:43 GMT
I'm confused. What would you like me to do? Sorry for the confusion. Nevermind though, as Quetesh already scolded me. I posted that while at work, and then spent the evening cleaning my computer and installing some case fans, so I haven't followed up until just now (right before bed) I'll just post some thoughts here myself tomorrow evening for discussion on this topic. Did I scold? ??
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 20, 2015 12:34:58 GMT
I have often thought about having a game with a loose set of mythos, that provides a sort of sandbox style "choose your own path", wherein there are a number of choices that can can be selected in a sort of "skill tree" format (I suppose similar to Civilization's social policies) which dictate and denote the mythology and religious contexts. This could essentially be how the Commandment system would incorporate with the story and affect gameplay. whatever happened to the commandments? Wasn't that next on the roadmap ... back ... a very long time ago? The commandments seemed to me like the thing that had the most hope of turning Godus into an actual god game, and I do really like the idea of tying the narrative into it. Exactly. I don't think we can discuss the narrative in Godus without talking about such things, especially those commandments that are still missing from the game. Sorry for the confusion. Nevermind though, as Quetesh already scolded me. I posted that while at work, and then spent the evening cleaning my computer and installing some case fans, so I haven't followed up until just now (right before bed) I'll just post some thoughts here myself tomorrow evening for discussion on this topic. Did I scold? ?? I was being sarcastic.
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Post by Spiderweb on Jan 21, 2015 6:33:59 GMT
I'm pretty non-religious myself sorry for any religious naivety but aren't commandments part of the Jewish and Christian faith? And that would negate the other religions which Moo says they are trying to avoid? Maybe be they will just call them "follower directives", sounds very ungodly
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Post by Qetesh on Jan 21, 2015 9:52:27 GMT
The problem is, when you whitewash anything you make it bland.
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Casinha
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Post by Casinha on Jan 21, 2015 10:18:02 GMT
Generic doesn't automatically mean bland Dictates, Edicts, Tenets, Axioms, Precepts. All perfectly fine to use in place of commandments and suitable for a theological vocabulary.
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Post by Qetesh on Jan 21, 2015 10:34:09 GMT
Generic doesn't automatically mean bland Dictates, Edicts, Tenets, Axioms, Precepts. All perfectly fine to use in place of commandments and suitable for a theological vocabulary. Still pretty bland compared to rich story of originals.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 21, 2015 14:34:37 GMT
I'm pretty non-religious myself sorry for any religious naivety but aren't commandments part of the Jewish and Christian faith? And that would negate the other religions which Moo says they are trying to avoid? Maybe be they will just call them "follower directives", sounds very ungodly Well, the term "Commandment" is simply a directive from a higher authority; but it is mostly associated with Christianity and Judaism. And I agree, "Follower Directives" doesn't really have any gravitas; you might as well be playing a political or accounting game. lol The problem is, when you whitewash anything you make it bland. Careful throwing around the term "whitewash", we don't want people thinking this is a racial issue... that's a whole other topic (Race and Ethnicity in Godus). Generic doesn't automatically mean bland Dictates, Edicts, Tenets, Axioms, Precepts. All perfectly fine to use in place of commandments and suitable for a theological vocabulary. I think we can all agree that the issue simply comes down to; they need to decide on how they want to handle the context and stick to it. As we easily pointed out, there are plenty of alternative terms, and a plethora of mythos and religions (even fictional) from which to draw from. They need to make a definitive choice and present thier decision, and be prepared to defend it. All this waffling and conflicting ideologies, since day one, has only added to the already muddied and disassociated aspects of the game.
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Post by engarde on Jan 21, 2015 15:57:57 GMT
Beige wash
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Post by Qetesh on Jan 21, 2015 17:33:14 GMT
I'm pretty non-religious myself sorry for any religious naivety but aren't commandments part of the Jewish and Christian faith? And that would negate the other religions which Moo says they are trying to avoid? Maybe be they will just call them "follower directives", sounds very ungodly Well, the term "Commandment" is simply a directive from a higher authority; but it is mostly associated with Christianity and Judaism. And I agree, "Follower Directives" doesn't really have any gravitas; you might as well be playing a political or accounting game. lol The problem is, when you whitewash anything you make it bland. Careful throwing around the term "whitewash", we don't want people thinking this is a racial issue... that's a whole other topic (Race and Ethnicity in Godus). Generic doesn't automatically mean bland Dictates, Edicts, Tenets, Axioms, Precepts. All perfectly fine to use in place of commandments and suitable for a theological vocabulary. I think we can all agree that the issue simply comes down to; they need to decide on how they want to handle the context and stick to it. As we easily pointed out, there are plenty of alternative terms, and a plethora of mythos and religions (even fictional) from which to draw from. They need to make a definitive choice and present thier decision, and be prepared to defend it. All this waffling and conflicting ideologies, since day one, has only added to the already muddied and disassociated aspects of the game. I am referring to when you use watered down paint like this. If you use a term with a color in it, it does not always relate race. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhitewashWhitewash, or calcimine, kalsomine, calsomine, or lime paint is a low-cost type of paint made from slaked lime (calcium hydroxide) and chalk (whiting). Various other additives are also used.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 21, 2015 17:55:36 GMT
I am referring to when you use watered down paint like this. If you use a term with a color in it, it does not always relate race. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhitewashWhitewash, or calcimine, kalsomine, calsomine, or lime paint is a low-cost type of paint made from slaked lime (calcium hydroxide) and chalk (whiting). Various other additives are also used. My bad. I knew what you meant, but was once again being deliberately flippant. Apparently I need to practice better conveyance of my facetious sarcasm through in context when communicating via text, or just avoid it altogether. Thanks for clarifying your meaning though, as perhaps someoneelse might have misunderstood both of our points. Back on topic-ish; I still can't get past the idea that the request for "amusing anecdotes" is somewhat sidestepping - and maybe obfuscating and detracting from - the issue, as the narritive needs more context before incorporating behaviors that don't correlate to an overarching interaction. There is so much more to a game than silly personalities and satirical situations resulting from inconsequential interactions. What purpose or effect does it have on the core gameplay, other than being "cute"? For what reason should they exist when the main point of the game still is without bearing or direction? Part of me feels this is just a tactic to distract us, by making us feel as though we're involved in the process. Not that I want to think that, but that's where we are in reflection of past experience. I can see FuriousMoo is trying, and he has my confidence up a few notches, but I m just partially underwhelmed by the apparent effort. Not that these questions aren't valid, or useful in thier own right; but are they really necessary at this stage? The prospects provided through our feedback can only be anecdotal without knowing more about the purpose, or how they'll effect core function, if at all. What was the outcome of the previous question on combat? Is that still in dicusson? Has there been any feedback on what info was useful or not? How does the narrative play into, or cooperate with, the combat; does it/should it?
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Post by darkmoondragon on Jan 21, 2015 18:15:02 GMT
Since this is a game I think we can be a bit more imaginative and even add a bit of humor here. Just a few examples: holy word, sacred code, the principium, divine law, the great teaching, golden rules, the great golden rules, the sacred scripts, the illuminated truths, the holy precepts, the great declarations, the sacrosanct tenets, the ancient scripts, the most holy touchstones, the great dogma, the divine dogma, etc.. Take your pick.
I tend toward the illuminated truths, the holy precepts or something like that. They have the ring of authenticity with just a bit of humor. Let's have some fun with it.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 21, 2015 18:28:11 GMT
Since this is a game I think we can be a bit more imaginative and even add a bit of humor here. Just a few examples: holy word, sacred code, the principium, divine law, the great teaching, golden rules, the great golden rules, the sacred scripts, the illuminated truths, the holy precepts, the great declarations, the sacrosanct tenets, the ancient scripts, the most holy touchstones, the great dogma, the divine dogma, etc.. Take your pick. I tend toward the illuminated truths, the holy precepts or something like that. They have the ring of authenticity with just a bit of humor. Let's have some fun with it. Exactly. The potential for greater creativity in the narritive is there, but instead have been overlooked in favor of contrite "f2p" mechanics. And here we are, being asked to suggest something without contextual references to build from. In my opinion, they should lock down a bit more meaning in the game, before speculating bahavioral oddities; as stated, it would then lend itself to a more congruous game, and aid in feature suggestions. We already have reactions from the followers when affecting the game world (chopping trees, smashing rocks), but it has no real correlation or effect on the overall gameplay; it's just an (mildly) amusing visual.
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Post by earlparvisjam on Jan 24, 2015 2:36:30 GMT
Since this is a game I think we can be a bit more imaginative and even add a bit of humor here. Just a few examples: holy word, sacred code, the principium, divine law, the great teaching, golden rules, the great golden rules, the sacred scripts, the illuminated truths, the holy precepts, the great declarations, the sacrosanct tenets, the ancient scripts, the most holy touchstones, the great dogma, the divine dogma, etc.. Take your pick. I tend toward the illuminated truths, the holy precepts or something like that. They have the ring of authenticity with just a bit of humor. Let's have some fun with it. Exactly. The potential for greater creativity in the narritive is there, but instead have been overlooked in favor of contrite "f2p" mechanics. And here we are, being asked to suggest something without contextual references to build from. In my opinion, they should lock down a bit more meaning in the game, before speculating bahavioral oddities; as stated, it would then lend itself to a more congruous game, and aid in feature suggestions. We already have reactions from the followers when affecting the game world (chopping trees, smashing rocks), but it has no real correlation or effect on the overall gameplay; it's just an (mildly) amusing visual. Yep, all this feels like sewing lace on rags and trying to call it a dress. No matter how much we spruce up Godus in it's current state, it's still based upon the crappy mechanics we've been trying to get changed since this project was released to the public.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 24, 2015 8:11:01 GMT
Did someone say "Baywatch"!?! Godus needs more Hoff.
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Post by morsealworth on Jan 26, 2015 20:13:59 GMT
Err... Scriptures?
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