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Post by FuriousMoo on Jan 28, 2015 18:15:06 GMT
Not really a design thread as such and don't read too much into it, but I'm curious what you would like, in very broad terms, combat in Godus being like if given the choice. Present your answers in this format:
"I would like combat in Godus to be like (insert existing game name here), but with the (*name of mechanic) from (*other existing game)" and with (*ingenious new never before seen mechanic you just dreamed up).
*Optional
Do NOT go off on tangents about other systems like economy, generation of new units etc, this is just concerning the combat loop.
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Post by morsealworth on Jan 28, 2015 18:26:01 GMT
#define unit platoon
#define army set of units used for a war front
I want it to be close to R.U.S.E. and Perimeter. In matter of inability to fight while prepared to march only (march while prepared to fight would have decreased speed; camp is never safe while moving and does not provide any services except field kitchen for limited time), ability to change the unit type without destroying the whole platoon and I would also like to add dependence on supply. So archers who are not supplied go out of arrows, armor, polearms and swords wear over time, units starve and die if not enough food is stored in the camp.
I also would like to have a camp as the core of the army. Not of a unit, but the whole army itself, so all of the soldiers would need to get their supplies and rest there, so it needs to be guarded, so it would have its own altar, their own field blacksmith to sharpen the swords, and so it would need to have a supply route to nearest settlement to stay effective. It would also have lovely campfires and HQ where the general resides. If the general is slain, the units lose their ability to coordinate attacks and each unit becomes independent with weaker AI.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jan 28, 2015 18:30:47 GMT
Oh, I love these!
I would like combat in Godus to be like Tetris but with the collecting gold rings at high speed from Sonic the Hedgehog and with timers that you can reduce using paid-for gems, which I think you will agree is an ingenious never-before-seen mechanic.
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Post by eddiemonsta on Jan 28, 2015 18:37:22 GMT
Combat like powermonger would do just fine for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 19:09:03 GMT
I want to see combat similar to Bubble Bobble with the stealth mechanics of Deus Ex being baked into a Godus cake of ingenious never before seen procedurally generated faked enemy AI.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 19:19:49 GMT
On a serious note... I second eddie's powermonger combat...
For me the sculpting/world building and era/tech progression possibilities in Godus were more alluring than combat ever was. So I'd be happy with a simple, satisfying system rather than a zany ingenious new bonkers rest assured system of zen-like, in the fullness of time, investment combat system.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Jan 28, 2015 19:34:08 GMT
In all seriousness FuriousMoo, I do appreciate your participation here and it's nice to be asked for ideas, but you are a professional game designer. Why don't you share some of your ingenious and original ideas for combat in Godus, and we can discuss what we think in our capacity as computer game enthusiasts?
You are literally the best-placed person on the planet to be coming up with these ideas, because you understand the technology and resource limitations within which you must work. It's also your actual day-job. Instead we are being asked for endless, open-ended brainstorming, with most ideas being dismissed or deemed unfeasible because of factors we have no visibility over.
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Post by Spiderweb on Jan 28, 2015 20:02:39 GMT
"I would like combat in Godus to be like populous the beginning, but with the Area of effect from black and white and with heroes/general/commander/alter or something that moves a god zone area of effect with the army."
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Post by Deth on Jan 28, 2015 20:04:30 GMT
Combat like powermonger would do just fine for me. I third this. The only changes, Note it has been years and I do not remember much beyond lay a flag and your army marches off that way, it maybe different types of flags if there could be different troop types, or even is your able to form different armies. So you could do a pincer moment or set up a hammer and anvil situation.
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Post by eddiemonsta on Jan 28, 2015 20:56:31 GMT
DethYou could do similar in powermonger when you had more than 1 captain, each captain having their own band of men. They would be armed with different weapons which were created/assigned by the captains aggresion level. It was all fairly simple stuff really.
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Post by darkmoondragon on Jan 28, 2015 21:26:39 GMT
I second Spiderweb and deth's "hero/commander" notion in principle, although I have no idea what the parameters or limitations of the core gameplay mechanics are. It would make sense to control the central figure plus god powers to keep it simple and not unwieldy. The rest of the game has a simple interface. Strategy needn't be cumbersome. It would be nice if you could input a basic strategy (from a list) through your "hero/commander" which would be received as an "inspiration" from god. The player would then press "go" and move on to possible use of god powers in real time as the battle unfolds. Sorry I can't think of an existing game which would work in this way. ( I mostly play Skyrim and Fallout style games ).
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Post by earlparvisjam on Jan 28, 2015 21:34:13 GMT
I would like the combat to be like Age of Empires 3 or (even better) TotalWar with the god powers of Black & White that incorporates divine input into morale so an army receiving the brunt of a barrage of meteors would be likely to break and run.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Jan 28, 2015 21:52:44 GMT
Combat like Darwinia with commander units directing the flow of lower-ranking military followers to wherever they're pointing to attack would be kinda neat.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jan 28, 2015 22:59:52 GMT
I would like combat in Godus to be like Populous the Beginning (where I get to smite enemy troops with lightning strikes, earthquakes, tornadoes and volcanoes and the like), but with the automated battle mechanic from Populous (followers attack enemies who are in range without having to be individually commanded to attack) and with the totem that was present in Godus v1.3 as an indicator of when and where you would like your followers to attack.
Also I would like newer and stronger military units to become available over time as my civilization advances (like in Civilization), but I guess you would consider that a side-track.
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Post by hardly on Jan 29, 2015 0:03:12 GMT
There are obviously multiple different ways to do it but I would have combat work like settlers 2 with buildings/forts that have zones of control (project territory). To expand into enemy territory you'd need to take over said forts.
The actual combat would work similar to settlers but be a bit more fancy. Your guys would line up in a formation (the width of which would be set based on the number of people in the smallest of the two armies up to a practical maximum e.g. Seven). Reserves would form up in ranks behind the front line. Guys in the front line would hit each other until one of them runs out of health and dies in which case he'd be replaced by the next guy (if there was one). One side wins when they kill all the opposition guys. As is settlers 2 your troops would have different strengths based on their equipment.
The attack would be commenced by placing a totem on the target fort and ratcheting it up to draw in more and more troops. Troops would come from the nearest barracks and from progressively further away. If you are losing you could call more troops in. Obviously the further away they are they ale longer to get there and might not arrive in time. Defenders can also call more troops in for defence.
Obviously this is a glorified spreadsheet as conflicts will be won by the person with the most troops that can be called to fight (might have maximum distance). Hence winning combat is more about economy and size of civ than how you command. I've suggested such a simple mechanic because GODUS will never be a tactical game, you aren't going to develop total war type instances combat with formations etc. So the challenge will have to sit outside combat (economic optimisation and societal advantage) with combat being the process by which you measure your ability to turn economic success into military might.
That's my thinking.
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Post by hardly on Jan 29, 2015 0:06:50 GMT
There are obviously multiple different ways to do it but I would have combat work like settlers 2 with buildings/forts that have zones of control (project territory). To expand into enemy territory you'd need to take over said forts. The actual combat would work similar to settlers but be a bit more fancy. Your guys would line up in a formation (the width of which would be set based on the number of people in the smallest of the two armies up to a practical maximum e.g. Seven). Reserves would form up in ranks behind the front line. Guys in the front line would hit each other until one of them runs out of health and dies in which case he'd be replaced by the next guy (if there was one). One side wins when they kill all the opposition guys. As is settlers 2 your troops would have different strengths based on their equipment. The attack would be commenced by placing a totem on the target fort and ratcheting it up to draw in more and more troops. Troops would come from the nearest barracks and from progressively further away. If you are losing you could call more troops in. Obviously the further away they are they ale longer to get there and might not arrive in time. Defenders can also call more troops in for defence. Obviously this is a glorified spreadsheet as conflicts will be won by the person with the most troops that can be called to fight (might have maximum distance). Hence winning combat is more about economy and size of civ than how you command. I've suggested such a simple mechanic because GODUS will never be a tactical game, you aren't going to develop total war type instances combat with formations etc. So the challenge will have to sit outside combat (economic optimisation and societal advantage) with combat being the process by which you measure your ability to turn economic success into military might. That's my thinking. Further to my post above this system could get interesting when you can choose between attacking at several different choke points. Multiple fights on multiple points creates dilemmas about where to send precious resources. Further, temporary loss of a fort could torch civilian buildings meaning that temporary control is an important way to undermine your opponents long term strength.
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Post by Spiderweb on Jan 29, 2015 6:25:31 GMT
I think all our ideas require implementation of area of effect to limit our God powers. Otherwise meteor spamming will occur with no consequence. You probably won't want to use meteors in your commanders AoE if it's quite tight due to friendly fire. I have suggested meteors leave granite as a consequence. Which you could use tactically if you wish, create bottlenecks or walls.
I recon meteors should do much less land damage and leave granite maybe more like a pinpoint hit that can kill 3-4 men and have comet more devastating and way more expensive like 100k a pop. But clears all granite/gems and land mass buildings and men.
And as has been said our units need to be able to take over enemy structures if we wish for bonuses otherwise boom we don't need them.
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Post by earlparvisjam on Jan 29, 2015 7:13:53 GMT
I think all our ideas require implementation of area of effect to limit our God powers. Otherwise meteor spamming will occur with no consequence. You probably won't want to use meteors in your commanders AoE if it's quite tight due to friendly fire. I have suggested meteors leave granite as a consequence. Which you could use tactically if you wish, create bottlenecks or walls. I recon meteors should do much less land damage and leave granite maybe more like a pinpoint hit that can kill 3-4 men and have comet more devastating and way more expensive like 100k a pop. But clears all granite/gems and land mass buildings and men. And as has been said our units need to be able to take over enemy structures if we wish for bonuses otherwise boom we don't need them. There'd be little need to limit god powers if the belief system was overhauled. The biggest problem at the moment is that belief generates really slowly and powers are very expensive. This creates long periods of buildup with burst expenditures and promotes hording. If Godus had a faster/easier belief generation coupled with lower cost, more things to spend belief on, and an overall faster game pace, god powers would be limited by the existing mechanic. It worked just fine in Populous. Why I've been hammering that these fundamental systems need rework before adding more features is because of this design gap. It's like Godus is being designed for peacetime play and wartime play as if they are two separate mini-games. They aren't and need to be looked at as a whole game experience. At the moment, the way I see things, either you avoid using precious belief in war to avoid waiting forever for it to regerate in non-combat expenditures, or you use up all your belief in war and the non-combat portion becomes a huge belief generation wait. At the moment, it's possible to generate insane amounts of belief given enough time. The flaw isn't in belief generation but in how the game is played. A player shouldn't be able to just sit around and safely generate belief. This brings up the second problem that needs addressing: risk. There is no risk in Godus. Look at any rts and see how they address the turtling tactic. Godus hasn't put any effort into it. The "worlds" are still essentially safe havens where players risk nothing and victory is little more than a matter of playing long enough. All the fancy units, god power timers, specialty structures, and side-effects added to the game aren't going to amount to squat without figuring out how belief works for the game as a whole and if there's actually any risk involved. Right now, WE CAN'T LOSE. All of the mechanics have been built on this premise and it springs from the casual f2p game it's been designed as. This game is never going to make sense as long as the core mechanics are how they are.
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Post by militairensneuvelen on Jan 29, 2015 8:39:16 GMT
In all seriousness FuriousMoo, I do appreciate your participation here and it's nice to be asked for ideas, but you are a professional game designer. Why don't you share some of your ingenious and original ideas for combat in Godus, and we can discuss what we think in our capacity as computer game enthusiasts? You are literally the best-placed person on the planet to be coming up with these ideas, because you understand the technology and resource limitations within which you must work. It's also your actual day-job. Instead we are being asked for endless, open-ended brainstorming, with most ideas being dismissed or deemed unfeasible because of factors we have no visibility over. They should hire you as new project manager.
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Post by Spiderweb on Jan 29, 2015 12:58:27 GMT
I think all our ideas require implementation of area of effect to limit our God powers. Otherwise meteor spamming will occur with no consequence. You probably won't want to use meteors in your commanders AoE if it's quite tight due to friendly fire. I have suggested meteors leave granite as a consequence. Which you could use tactically if you wish, create bottlenecks or walls. I recon meteors should do much less land damage and leave granite maybe more like a pinpoint hit that can kill 3-4 men and have comet more devastating and way more expensive like 100k a pop. But clears all granite/gems and land mass buildings and men. And as has been said our units need to be able to take over enemy structures if we wish for bonuses otherwise boom we don't need them. There'd be little need to limit god powers if the belief system was overhauled. The biggest problem at the moment is that belief generates really slowly and powers are very expensive. This creates long periods of buildup with burst expenditures and promotes hording. If Godus had a faster/easier belief generation coupled with lower cost, more things to spend belief on, and an overall faster game pace, god powers would be limited by the existing mechanic. It worked just fine in Populous. Why I've been hammering that these fundamental systems need rework before adding more features is because of this design gap. It's like Godus is being designed for peacetime play and wartime play as if they are two separate mini-games. They aren't and need to be looked at as a whole game experience. At the moment, the way I see things, either you avoid using precious belief in war to avoid waiting forever for it to regerate in non-combat expenditures, or you use up all your belief in war and the non-combat portion becomes a huge belief generation wait. At the moment, it's possible to generate insane amounts of belief given enough time. The flaw isn't in belief generation but in how the game is played. A player shouldn't be able to just sit around and safely generate belief. This brings up the second problem that needs addressing: risk. There is no risk in Godus. Look at any rts and see how they address the turtling tactic. Godus hasn't put any effort into it. The "worlds" are still essentially safe havens where players risk nothing and victory is little more than a matter of playing long enough. All the fancy units, god power timers, specialty structures, and side-effects added to the game aren't going to amount to squat without figuring out how belief works for the game as a whole and if there's actually any risk involved. Right now, WE CAN'T LOSE. All of the mechanics have been built on this premise and it springs from the casual f2p game it's been designed as. This game is never going to make sense as long as the core mechanics are how they are. Doesn't sound like game mechanics to me what you describe is balancing, if they made the Astari Raiding parties aggressive and lots more of them and a progression train of way points through homeworld (via settlements) it would feel like you could lose. Belief generation and usage amounts can also be re-balanced. I'm one for random events and natural disasters too, but I think these can be implemented with the current design if they choose to. The questionable f2p mechanics are the lack of any kind of timeline progression (or tech tree), card and stickers being used for that purpose, gems and lack of other resources (wheat and ore) aren't enough IMO.
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