chrism
Master
Posts: 113 
Pledge level: El cheapo Believer
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Post by chrism on Feb 7, 2015 17:18:36 GMT
...is there any point coming back in again yet?
Grateful for just a quick update on events over the last three months or so. Do we have a game yet?
thanks.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Feb 7, 2015 17:50:45 GMT
Summary: PM announced he's now working on a new game (The Trail) and has taken nearly all of the resources of 22Cans with him, leaving ~2 people working on Godus. The Godus team have the best of intentions but have been told they must prioritise the mobile as it's the money-maker. They aren't a big enough team to achieve much even without this limitation in place. Customers and backers are beginning to report 22Cans to various regulatory bodies for fraud.
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Post by hardly on Feb 7, 2015 18:06:36 GMT
Summary: PM announced he's now working on a new game (The Trail) and has taken nearly all of the resources of 22Cans with him, leaving ~2 people working on Godus. The Godus team have the best of intentions but have been told they must prioritise the mobile as it's the money-maker. They aren't a big enough team to achieve much even without this limitation in place. Customers and backers are beginning to report 22Cans to various regulatory bodies for fraud. Stability continues to be an issue on all platforms, we've gone from an unwillingness to present a plan to an inability to do so. The resource issue dumpy mentions is incredibly disturbing. There also appears to be an exodus of 22cand staff. So yeah things arent looking good. I like the new lead designer, I just wish he had a similar level of resources behind him that peter did and ultimate authority over how those resources will be used. |
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chrism
Master
Posts: 113
Pledge level: El cheapo Believer
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Post by chrism on Feb 7, 2015 19:07:46 GMT
Holy crap. At least if I chance upon The Trail I know not to bother. Thanks for the simple update.
Is there some sort of joint tort I need to sign up to?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 7, 2015 20:07:27 GMT
Holy crap. At least if I chance upon The Trail I know not to bother. Thanks for the simple update. Is there some sort of joint tort I need to sign up to? Not that I am aware of as yet but I have seen people filing official complaints with Kickstarter and encouraging others to do the same. |
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Post by Deth on Feb 8, 2015 0:24:37 GMT
Well there is also possibly a 3rd game? or was it some kind of Freudian slip? From his latest interview.
"The main part of 22cans is just focusing on Betrayal and trying to use — it’s not just mobile, but trying to think of innovative ways of interacting with a game."
I am not reading that wrong am I? There is 22cans that is working Godus and this Betrayal game? and the 14 steps team that is working The Trail game.
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Post by FuriousMoo on Feb 8, 2015 2:56:20 GMT
There is defiantly no 3rd game. I don't know where 'Betrayal' came from, but it was a phone interview and I'm guessing the interviewer misheard 'the Trail'.
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Post by hardly on Feb 8, 2015 4:52:21 GMT
There is defiantly no 3rd game. I don't know where 'Betrayal' came from, but it was a phone interview and I'm guessing the interviewer misheard 'the Trail'. There was a certain irony to the misinterpretation of the name. |
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Post by Marshmallows on Feb 8, 2015 5:27:28 GMT
Holy crap. At least if I chance upon The Trail I know not to bother. Thanks for the simple update. Is there some sort of joint tort I need to sign up to? Not that I am aware of as yet but I have seen people filing official complaints with Kickstarter and encouraging others to do the same. What can Kickstarter do though? Do they have the authority to get people to give refunds? In most cases I've seen in RL, complaint and appeals can only go so far... |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 8, 2015 8:19:17 GMT
Not that I am aware of as yet but I have seen people filing official complaints with Kickstarter and encouraging others to do the same. What can Kickstarter do though? Do they have the authority to get people to give refunds? In most cases I've seen in RL, complaint and appeals can only go so far... I haven't heard of a class action lawsuit or anything that's been organised, yet, but I'm sure if/when it happens we'll all know. Historically, so far, it's been cases of Backers suing both Kickstarter and the Project Originator. It's still a relatively new platform, and within the last couple of years there have only been just a handful of cases that I'm aware of. Do a search for "Kickstarter Lawsuits" or "Kickstarter Sued" and you'll see at least two of the more known cases where people sued; a deck of Asylum playing cards, and an iPad mount, being the products promised and not delivered. Kickstarter fraud: Washington files first consumer protection lawsuit involving crowdfundingWhen Kickstarter Investors Want Their Money Back |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Feb 8, 2015 9:46:25 GMT
Kickstarter claim that any disputes are between the project owner and the customer. I'm not sure that complaining directly to Kickstarter will achieve much. Anyone serious about taking legal action should bypass Kickstarter and seek legal advice.
I don't know how liable 22Cans is. Kickstarter is full of disclaimers that allow for the fact that goals and stretch-goals may not be achieved, but they do lay out a clear list of actions for project creators to take if they cannot attain the goals - i.e. they need to be able to demonstrate they acted in good faith to achieve those goals, as opposed to just including the goal in the pitch to secure the funding. 22Cans has definitely not done this, in fact PM almost admitted in one interview that he DID just put down any old goal just to get people to back it. So there's possibly a strong case there?
Steam Early Access, on the other hand, is swamped with wildly anti-consumer disclaimers, to the point where developers on SEA essentially aren't obligated to deliver anything at all, regarldess of what they say on the store page. We all know of a few cases where games have been pulled from SEA, but I gather that was at Steam's discretion rather than a result of legal action.
Ultimately, 22Cans can continue to hide behind "it's not finished yet" for the PC version, and as I understand it neither SEA nor Kickstarter enforce any kind of timeframe in which the project much be delivered, so unless domething definitive happens (like 22Cans going bust) they can keep claiming it's in progress.
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Post by Marshmallows on Feb 8, 2015 12:35:49 GMT
What can Kickstarter do though? Do they have the authority to get people to give refunds? In most cases I've seen in RL, complaint and appeals can only go so far... I haven't heard of a class action lawsuit or anything that's been organised, yet, but I'm sure if/when it happens we'll all know. Historically, so far, it's been cases of Backers suing both Kickstarter and the Project Originator. It's still a relatively new platform, and within the last couple of years there have only been just a handful of cases that I'm aware of. Do a search for "Kickstarter Lawsuits" or "Kickstarter Sued" and you'll see at least two of the more known cases where people sued; a deck of Asylum playing cards, and an iPad mount, being the products promised and not delivered. Kickstarter fraud: Washington files first consumer protection lawsuit involving crowdfundingWhen Kickstarter Investors Want Their Money BackThanks for the links~! They're very insightful. |
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Post by Deth on Feb 8, 2015 14:00:41 GMT
There is defiantly no 3rd game. I don't know where 'Betrayal' came from, but it was a phone interview and I'm guessing the interviewer misheard 'the Trail'. Thanks FuriousMoo I can see The Trail being miss-heard over the phone. That also seem to be a very strange name for a game but at this point I would put nothing past Peter. |
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