Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 14, 2015 19:56:43 GMT
I've been thinking about writing up the history of project godus from a backer's point of view for a long time now. The problem is that so much of the interesting facts have gotten buried deep in the dark foul crevices of my mind. It would take a lot of effort to uncover those facts now and it probably couldn't be achieved without other people refreshing my memory. Besides that I am away from home about 12 hours per day and when I get home I'm quite exhausted and I have very little time left to actually do something before falling into a deep sleep. That said, perhaps in collaboration we can remember and uncover all the facts and write up the true history of project godus. 80% of all the facts are probably on this forum somewhere, the rest of it was probably lost on the 22cans forum unless we can remember it.
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Post by Spiderweb on Feb 14, 2015 20:16:17 GMT
I've been thinking about writing up the history of project godus from a backer's point of view for a long time now. The problem is that so much of the interesting facts have gotten buried deep in the dark foul crevices of my mind. It would take a lot of effort to uncover those facts now and it probably couldn't be achieved without other people refreshing my memory. Besides that I am away from home about 12 hours per day and when I get home I'm quite exhausted and I have very little time left to actually do something before falling into a deep sleep. That said, perhaps in collaboration we can remember and uncover all the facts and write up the true history of project godus. 80% of all the facts are probably on this forum somewhere, the rest of it was probably lost on the 22cans forum unless we can remember it. Why not kickstart it, you could make you money back  ? *joke* "Godus, idea from heaven project from hell"? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2015 20:19:56 GMT
I've been thinking about writing up the history of project godus from a backer's point of view for a long time now. The problem is that so much of the interesting facts have gotten buried deep in the dark foul crevices of my mind. It would take a lot of effort to uncover those facts now and it probably couldn't be achieved without other people refreshing my memory. Besides that I am away from home about 12 hours per day and when I get home I'm quite exhausted and I have very little time left to actually do something before falling into a deep sleep. That said, perhaps in collaboration we can remember and uncover all the facts and write up the true history of project godus. 80% of all the facts are probably on this forum somewhere, the rest of it was probably lost on the 22cans forum unless we can remember it. Make a new thread and we can try. |
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Post by hardly on Feb 14, 2015 22:21:24 GMT
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 14, 2015 22:57:03 GMT
I think we were told that they were delivered. I might have had confirmation from Sam. I'm not sure right now though, my life has been a roller coaster ride the past year, especially the last half year. We do have a thread about the kickstarter rewards somewhere though. |
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Post by hardly on Feb 14, 2015 23:56:46 GMT
I think we were told that they were delivered. I might have had confirmation from Sam. I'm not sure right now though, my life has been a roller coaster ride the past year, especially the last half year. We do have a thread about the kickstarter rewards somewhere though. I vaguely remember George checking and then coming back and saying yes. If it was fulfilled it would be interesting to check the quality with someone who received one. Do we have any backers at that level on this forum that you are aware of? As I remember there were only about 5-6 right? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 0:07:13 GMT
Man, I kinda want to hop in that thread and link them to where we organized our own attempt at a sort of community intervention and got blown the fuck off not too long after with Molyneux's announcement of The Trail. I do kind of agree with the sentiments that maybe RPS was a tad abrasive, but I also agree with the idea that the man had it coming in some form or another. People close to him have tried to get him to listen, what few fans he had left (I guess that'd sort of, in some bizarre way be us?) tried to, but off he went as usual, and finally someone had to get a media fire under him...Which we're still not sure will truly change anything until we see some substantial work done on Godus. If I'd honestly thought the email I sent was going to get anything going, I'd have thought to send a link to the Q&A session, but at the time of sending I was tired and thinking no one would pick up on it. It was my impression that some had already tried to no avail, from some vague memory of us discussing it before, so it wouldn't have been shocking to see nothing come of it. Ah well, that's hindsight for you, I suppose. Now it's simply the waiting game again. Honestly, it was just a matter of time before the news finally broke through; like accumulated snow on a flat roof, somethings going to give eventually. You just happened to hit the right harmonic. I have the same urge to make corrections to many of the assumptions, or misconstrued information being shunted about (like the fact Proboards isn't the official forum), and include them in on a more balanced history of events. If you feel like it, I think you should; I would assume providing a broader scope would help keep people informed of the bigger picture. All the angles need to be represented. I hadn't thought the RPS interview in that way. Certainly an interesting perspective. Now that I've had some time to digest things... I really am glad RPS did their interview, the aire needed some clearing, and maybe this will give PM some perspective to really stew on... I guess it is/was hard for me to read, for the reason that (I think Sundance mentioned) it seemed akin to "holding a dogs nose in its poo" or something like that. Cheers to all of you who have been feeding these timelines/facts/etc to the media. I feel like you have been a catalyzing force behind what eventually will be a clear and total drill down to exactly what backers (and Bryan) deserve. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 15, 2015 0:13:13 GMT
I think we were told that they were delivered. I might have had confirmation from Sam. I'm not sure right now though, my life has been a roller coaster ride the past year, especially the last half year. We do have a thread about the kickstarter rewards somewhere though. I vaguely remember George checking and then coming back and saying yes. If it was fulfilled it would be interesting to check the quality with someone who received one. Do we have any backers at that level on this forum that you are aware of? As I remember there were only about 5-6 right? We could ask amethyst. Coincidentally she was online about an hour ago. |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Feb 15, 2015 4:15:11 GMT
I've been thinking about writing up the history of project godus from a backer's point of view for a long time now. The problem is that so much of the interesting facts have gotten buried deep in the dark foul crevices of my mind. It would take a lot of effort to uncover those facts now and it probably couldn't be achieved without other people refreshing my memory. Besides that I am away from home about 12 hours per day and when I get home I'm quite exhausted and I have very little time left to actually do something before falling into a deep sleep. That said, perhaps in collaboration we can remember and uncover all the facts and write up the true history of project godus. 80% of all the facts are probably on this forum somewhere, the rest of it was probably lost on the 22cans forum unless we can remember it. This brings up the biggest beef I have with a lot of the articles about Godus. While they spotted the issue with Curiosity's prize, how slow progress has been, and how the team's been gutted they hardly (if ever) point out just how questionable the pc version actually is. All it takes is a quick trip back to SEA's first reviews about 1.x to point out its mobile roots. That's back when PM claims he was actually focused on working on the pc version. Apart from disabling the store, there was no difference between the pc and mobile version until we got the ability to sacrifice followers. Even now, there's so little distinction between the two that it's nearly impossible to tell if someone's talking about one or the other unless they mention in-game purchases. If a timeline is done, we really need to drive home how little has been done for the pc version and how it applies to what has been said since day #1 and how it tracks to what is being claimed now about the history. Server expenses are a good example of a curve ball that was discussed back in April. I know it was because I questioned how they'd pay for it back then and was pretty much ignored. Oh, and a really good way of initializing the timeline is by utilizing the videos that are nicely referenced on this site. Each of those videos represents a response to the current state of the community and is a great reference point to just what we were being told. I keep going back to those videos but, when watched in order, represent the heart of a series of baseless assumptions about the community, tangential conversations, half-truths, technicalities, and misleading promises. While the AMA is a good touchstone event, it only fueled the fire that resulted in video #40 and still echoed in #41. Their progression also points out how nebulous communication was and continues to be. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
|
Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 15, 2015 10:33:52 GMT
Indeed. The mobile junk was written on the wall as soon as we saw the video with all the pink bubbles above the abodes, which was about 1-3 weeks before the very first alpha was released if memory serves me correctly. (was it April 2013?)
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Post by Gmr Leon on Feb 15, 2015 10:41:21 GMT
Indeed. The mobile junk was written on the wall as soon as we saw the video with all the pink bubbles above the abodes, which was about 1-3 weeks before the very first alpha was released if memory serves me correctly. (was it April 2013?) Peter addresses it May 3rd, 2013, looks like it may have first been shown May 2nd from the video right before? |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
|
Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 15, 2015 11:43:46 GMT
Indeed. The mobile junk was written on the wall as soon as we saw the video with all the pink bubbles above the abodes, which was about 1-3 weeks before the very first alpha was released if memory serves me correctly. (was it April 2013?) Peter addresses it May 3rd, 2013, looks like it may have first been shown May 2nd from the video right before? I can't watch the videos right now, I'm on my way to work. But you tell me. |
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Post by hardly on Feb 15, 2015 20:14:19 GMT
I've been thinking about writing up the history of project godus from a backer's point of view for a long time now. The problem is that so much of the interesting facts have gotten buried deep in the dark foul crevices of my mind. It would take a lot of effort to uncover those facts now and it probably couldn't be achieved without other people refreshing my memory. Besides that I am away from home about 12 hours per day and when I get home I'm quite exhausted and I have very little time left to actually do something before falling into a deep sleep. That said, perhaps in collaboration we can remember and uncover all the facts and write up the true history of project godus. 80% of all the facts are probably on this forum somewhere, the rest of it was probably lost on the 22cans forum unless we can remember it. This brings up the biggest beef I have with a lot of the articles about Godus. While they spotted the issue with Curiosity's prize, how slow progress has been, and how the team's been gutted they hardly (if ever) point out just how questionable the pc version actually is. All it takes is a quick trip back to SEA's first reviews about 1.x to point out its mobile roots. That's back when PM claims he was actually focused on working on the pc version. Apart from disabling the store, there was no difference between the pc and mobile version until we got the ability to sacrifice followers. Even now, there's so little distinction between the two that it's nearly impossible to tell if someone's talking about one or the other unless they mention in-game purchases. If a timeline is done, we really need to drive home how little has been done for the pc version and how it applies to what has been said since day #1 and how it tracks to what is being claimed now about the history. Server expenses are a good example of a curve ball that was discussed back in April. I know it was because I questioned how they'd pay for it back then and was pretty much ignored. Oh, and a really good way of initializing the timeline is by utilizing the videos that are nicely referenced on this site. Each of those videos represents a response to the current state of the community and is a great reference point to just what we were being told. I keep going back to those videos but, when watched in order, represent the heart of a series of baseless assumptions about the community, tangential conversations, half-truths, technicalities, and misleading promises. While the AMA is a good touchstone event, it only fueled the fire that resulted in video #40 and still echoed in #41. Their progression also points out how nebulous communication was and continues to be. I share this frustration. While the game being late, multiplayer being AWOL and Bryan being screwed over are all easy for the media understand and communicate the less easily defined concern of mobile versus PC is much more difficult to substantiate and therefore to grasp. However, it also much more important since if true it would represent deliberate manipulation from outset. The problem is we can't prove Peter always intended to make mobile the first priority from the start. He did always have mobile in the picture which is an easy way to deflect criticism in this regard, it means we have to substantiate that he promised not to compromise PC and that he has done so. Our main argument is that he said PC woildnt be compromised - quotes about hardcore gamers and them being PC gamers first and all that. We know that mobile has been like a pair of concrete boots that has dragged PC to the bottom of the ocean and not slowly either. We've been talking about this for almost two years, two years of 22cans making bad design decisions that presumably are driven by the need to make the game mobile capatible (both system wise and income wise). However, a lot of this can be deflected/justified as bad design as opposed to cynical (mobile driven) design. We would all say "it's mobile's fault" but Peter can say - I made bad design decisions, so what? You can't prove he deceived us on this point although it fails the smell test as far as I'm concerned. I don't think the media will ever truely get this dynamic and explain it well. Worse I don't think a lot of people outside this community care although I think they should. I guess we'll have to settle for the fact that he will probably never release another PC game ever again and that 22Cans will most likely shut down in the next 6-12 months. People might not share our version of the facts but the consequences will be as if they did so does it really matter? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 12:24:08 GMT
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227 
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Feb 17, 2015 15:07:03 GMT
I think we were told that they were delivered. I might have had confirmation from Sam. I'm not sure right now though, my life has been a roller coaster ride the past year, especially the last half year. We do have a thread about the kickstarter rewards somewhere though. I vaguely remember George checking and then coming back and saying yes. If it was fulfilled it would be interesting to check the quality with someone who received one. Do we have any backers at that level on this forum that you are aware of? As I remember there were only about 5-6 right? Can't confirm the delivery, but I do know that one was missing for a long time, then found last year and sent to the backer that was missing it. Because it was found, I finally got to see it up close. It's not a supreme work of art, it doesn't strike me as pretty in itself, but the materials and workmanship were amazing in the one I saw. Super clean lines, perfectly set, and in titanium (which is a total arse to work with). Yeah, they were quality. I guess that's one of the problems with kickstarters. The backer rewards actually take money away from the company. Those particular pledges added a vast sum to the pot with one hand, then took it away again with the other. The most profitable ones were the digital copies, but iirc they were only 60% of the total fund. The massive £500k fund, after rewards material and delivery costs, and fares and restaurant bills and all the rest are taken out, really doesn't end up very large for our team. I can see why we ran out of money so fast; we never had it. If I ever do a kickstarter, I'm not going to do any physical rewards for backers, because whatever goal I set, I want to be sure that it would be enough to finish the project. Also, I think I would actually ask for the 100% contingency, because that's precisely the right kind of attitude to making sure you will complete the project and be able to reward all the backers. |
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Post by Spiderweb on Feb 17, 2015 15:38:31 GMT
I vaguely remember George checking and then coming back and saying yes. If it was fulfilled it would be interesting to check the quality with someone who received one. Do we have any backers at that level on this forum that you are aware of? As I remember there were only about 5-6 right? Can't confirm the delivery, but I do know that one was missing for a long time, then found last year and sent to the backer that was missing it. Because it was found, I finally got to see it up close. It's not a supreme work of art, it doesn't strike me as pretty in itself, but the materials and workmanship were amazing in the one I saw. Super clean lines, perfectly set, and in titanium (which is a total arse to work with). Yeah, they were quality. I guess that's one of the problems with kickstarters. The backer rewards actually take money away from the company. Those particular pledges added a vast sum to the pot with one hand, then took it away again with the other. The most profitable ones were the digital copies, but iirc they were only 60% of the total fund. The massive £500k fund, after rewards material and delivery costs, and fares and restaurant bills and all the rest are taken out, really doesn't end up very large for our team. I can see why we ran out of money so fast; we never had it. If I ever do a kickstarter, I'm not going to do any physical rewards for backers, because whatever goal I set, I want to be sure that it would be enough to finish the project. Also, I think I would actually ask for the 100% contingency, because that's precisely the right kind of attitude to making sure you will complete the project and be able to reward all the backers. Do you think if Peter had asked for 100% contingency Godus might of failed in kickstarter? I don't know Peter's finances but if he could of bankrolled Godus into Mobile it may well of been more successful than what we see now. EDIT: Hindsight is a beautiful thing. |
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Feb 17, 2015 16:12:18 GMT
Can't confirm the delivery, but I do know that one was missing for a long time, then found last year and sent to the backer that was missing it. Because it was found, I finally got to see it up close. It's not a supreme work of art, it doesn't strike me as pretty in itself, but the materials and workmanship were amazing in the one I saw. Super clean lines, perfectly set, and in titanium (which is a total arse to work with). Yeah, they were quality. I guess that's one of the problems with kickstarters. The backer rewards actually take money away from the company. Those particular pledges added a vast sum to the pot with one hand, then took it away again with the other. The most profitable ones were the digital copies, but iirc they were only 60% of the total fund. The massive £500k fund, after rewards material and delivery costs, and fares and restaurant bills and all the rest are taken out, really doesn't end up very large for our team. I can see why we ran out of money so fast; we never had it. If I ever do a kickstarter, I'm not going to do any physical rewards for backers, because whatever goal I set, I want to be sure that it would be enough to finish the project. Also, I think I would actually ask for the 100% contingency, because that's precisely the right kind of attitude to making sure you will complete the project and be able to reward all the backers. Do you think if Peter had asked for 100% contingency Godus might of failed in kickstarter? Going by the amount we got, I've got to assume we would have failed to reach £900k. If we had £900k in the bank at the start, and didn't have the physical rewards to fulfil, then things might have been different, but I actually don't want to think about it because -could have beens- just makes me sad. |
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Post by hardly on Feb 17, 2015 18:31:12 GMT
Thanks again Fabs, lol you making a career change to being a CM? You are getting very good at this  |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Feb 17, 2015 20:06:45 GMT
Holy crap, what's Harry Potter doing with Godus?! Yes, I went there. Now, you'll never be able to stop thinking that when you see that picture... |
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Post by nikink on Feb 17, 2015 20:09:25 GMT
The only time physical rewards should be added to a KS is when they have been adequately costed. The cost gets passed on to the backer. This isn't rocket science, yet so many projects fail to do the maths, just take guesses, or keep adding free stuff (sometimes physical free stuff!!!) and then get shocked by not having enough money to fulfil those rewards and the project tanks.
Amazes me.
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? *joke*
