Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 23:11:21 GMT
The only time physical rewards should be added to a KS is when they have been adequately costed. The cost gets passed on to the backer. This isn't rocket science, yet so many projects fail to do the maths, just take guesses, or keep adding free stuff (sometimes physical free stuff!!!) and then get shocked by not having enough money to fulfil those rewards and the project tanks. Amazes me. Somewhere... in RAINY Guildford... long long ago... J: "Hey, great news everyone! Someone pledged the God of God of God of Gods level Pledge!" K: "Is that the one that includes all the previous pledge rewards as well as One Custom-Built Belief-Bubble-Pink Lamborghini Huracan?" M: "It sure is! How exciting!" P: "Well... I suppose after the money clears, we should go buy one and have it wrapped. How much are we looking at for one of those anyway?" J: "£154,581 last I looked, plus the wrap" a moment later... from the financial office... P: "Hey! Guys, a pledge purchase just cleared for £154,582. Isn't that the one with the car? How exciting!"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 23:17:02 GMT
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Post by greay on Feb 17, 2015 23:38:25 GMT
The only time physical rewards should be added to a KS is when they have been adequately costed. The cost gets passed on to the backer. This isn't rocket science, yet so many projects fail to do the maths, just take guesses, or keep adding free stuff (sometimes physical free stuff!!!) and then get shocked by not having enough money to fulfil those rewards and the project tanks. Amazes me. Even when they are accounted for (or at least the attempt is made) oftentimes the cost & effort of simply shipping it all ends up being more than anticipated (especially for projects that go over their goal, which means they probably got a lot more physical rewards than they anticipated). There's also two sides to it : on the one hand it's the creators (possibly) not accounting for the cost of all the physical goods, but on the other it's backers of failed or failing projects saying "you got all this money; how can you possibly be running out?" by not taking into account the cost of the physical rewards.
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Post by hardly on Feb 18, 2015 1:36:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 7:39:21 GMT
Did i read we add a Jupiter sized world as one of the Stretch Goal? Ah no was only double earth sized - they have no clue how to make a proper Kickstarter.
Liked that - 9.7/10 IGN
Remembers me of all the press articles when Godus SEA started. When Molyneux was on marketing tour (for example on gamescom) ... and nobody asked the interesting questions.
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Post by mindless on Feb 19, 2015 6:18:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 6:44:56 GMT
It makes you wonder if Tim realizes that he's not doing either of their reputations a favour by trying to lump Peter and himself together in some kind of game industry Drama Squad. It'd be really interesting to see if PM engages Tim over his comments, or gives him the could shoulder since his reputation might just be about as toxic as Peter's is right now. Maybe they can meet up for a "you done goofed" pity party convention, have a pint, clear the air, then get back to making the games they promised to make.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 19, 2015 10:21:52 GMT
Thanks for your assessment Tim Schafer, whoever you are.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 19, 2015 12:20:54 GMT
It makes you wonder if Tim realizes that he's not doing either of their reputations a favour by trying to lump Peter and himself together in some kind of game industry Drama Squad. It'd be really interesting to see if PM engages Tim over his comments, or gives him the could shoulder since his reputation might just be about as toxic as Peter's is right now. Maybe they can meet up for a "you done goofed" pity party convention, have a pint, clear the air, then get back to making the games they promised to make. The problem is that most people are not fully aware of the entire situation. Despite multiple links to this forum, and pointing out past articles (in the comments of new ones) that contradicted Peter's words in recent interviews, most people cannot be bothered to do their own research. Seriously, most people don't click the link-backs in the article because society has become complacent enough to take everything at face value, make snap judgements, and be completely happy with being told what to think. Statistically most people don't even read more than a few sentences in articles, or just the headlines - and in some cases, they only read status updates on Twitter and Facebook - and that is a real shame. Ok, maybe that's a bit hardsh to say, what I meant was that most people are fucking lazy. Likewise, we're immediately labeled as "whining entitled bullies", despite the obvious reason for being upset in the first place; they just write it off as "Game design is hard, so you should be ok with getting ripped off". It's the internet trend to pick on perceived bullies right now, and this is no exception. Tim obviously only knows what little he's seen in the interviews, and doesn't know the whole picture. Someone should invite him here, or maybe send him a well written email (like Gmr_leon did with RPS) - so long as you're cordial and fair in the message. Only when you have all the info can you make a definitive logical conclusion, and most people lack the full scope of events. Obviously we have a more emotional attachment, and personal investment" in this topic - however, it really pisses me off when people make baseless statements (or comments) on something they know little about, without bothering to at least consider that there maybe be truth to it. And if you are a public figure and make such a statement without due diligence in research, you're only hurting yourself in the long run; especially if the truth does eventually present itself. It's only a matter of time before Peter plays his final card - will he Call, Fold, or try Bluffing again?
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stuhacking
Master
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Post by stuhacking on Feb 19, 2015 14:42:08 GMT
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 19, 2015 14:56:47 GMT
Oh shit. Point taken. He helped create some of my favourite games. Monkey Island for the win. Sorry, I'm a bit lazy when it comes to that sort of research plus I posted that in a hurry because I had to run out to work. No, let me rephrase that. I am VERY lazy when it comes to that sort of research. Let me know when I can take my foot out of my mouth. :S
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
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I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
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Post by Raspofabs on Feb 19, 2015 15:30:52 GMT
The only time physical rewards should be added to a KS is when they have been adequately costed. The cost gets passed on to the backer. This isn't rocket science, yet so many projects fail to do the maths, just take guesses, or keep adding free stuff (sometimes physical free stuff!!!) and then get shocked by not having enough money to fulfil those rewards and the project tanks. Amazes me. Even when they are accounted for (or at least the attempt is made) oftentimes the cost & effort of simply shipping it all ends up being more than anticipated (especially for projects that go over their goal, which means they probably got a lot more physical rewards than they anticipated). There's also two sides to it : on the one hand it's the creators (possibly) not accounting for the cost of all the physical goods, but on the other it's backers of failed or failing projects saying "you got all this money; how can you possibly be running out?" by not taking into account the cost of the physical rewards. Oh yeah, I backed this it took over a year for her to fulfil the backer rewards, mostly because it ran amok and pledges came in way over the expectation.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 19, 2015 17:38:50 GMT
Even when they are accounted for (or at least the attempt is made) oftentimes the cost & effort of simply shipping it all ends up being more than anticipated (especially for projects that go over their goal, which means they probably got a lot more physical rewards than they anticipated). There's also two sides to it : on the one hand it's the creators (possibly) not accounting for the cost of all the physical goods, but on the other it's backers of failed or failing projects saying "you got all this money; how can you possibly be running out?" by not taking into account the cost of the physical rewards. Oh yeah, I backed this it took over a year for her to fulfil the backer rewards, mostly because it ran amok and pledges came in way over the expectation. But you did receive your microprocessor then? More importantly, were you able to put it to any good use?
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Feb 19, 2015 18:02:08 GMT
But you did receive your microprocessor then? More importantly, were you able to put it to any good use? I did, but by the comments, many did not. I guess that was a simple case of the rate of successful delivery from the U.S. I was able to put it to use, though only 7 out of the 10 boards I ordered worked.
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Post by hardly on Feb 19, 2015 18:39:57 GMT
As others have pointed out the attitude of fellow developers to this situation is disturbing. They seem more concerned with avoiding similar treatment than setting any kind of standard for their collective behaviour. The problem is if you embrace somebody with plague in a big group hug you all get plague. So I now know who Tim Schafer is and I now know he condones Peters business practices. He goes on the blacklist too.
As the general points out the facts in this case are far beyond just over promising/under delivering, and the usual hiccups in game development. .the mobile focus is despicable and the treatment of Bryan Henderson is worse.
Unfortunately this is just more evidence that the industry and not just peter have an incorrect understanding of what the obligations that exist under kickstarter/early access. Means we just can't support these platforms which is a shame.
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zeruelb
Junior Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by zeruelb on Feb 20, 2015 7:26:31 GMT
Oh shit. Point taken. He helped create some of my favourite games. Monkey Island for the win. Sorry, I'm a bit lazy when it comes to that sort of research plus I posted that in a hurry because I had to run out to work. No, let me rephrase that. I am VERY lazy when it comes to that sort of research. Let me know when I can take my foot out of my mouth. :S And for further research: Check out Spacebase DF-9, which was in early access and also gone through a bit of issues, but not on the same level as Godus of course (Wikipedia): "In September 2014, Double Fine announced that they were going to bring Spacebase DF-9 out of early access status, and add features to make the game a full commercial release, due to a lack of sales for the game during the early access period. After the commercial release, Double Fine will release part of the source code and no new features will be added, but Double Fine will still be offering support of the game and making bug fix releases.[7][8] The news was met with controversy, with some fans expressing anger over the fact that the game wouldn't continue development,[9] and some developers questioning whether a failure by a well known developer to successfully use the early access model would tarnish that model for other developers.[10]"
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Post by mindless on Feb 27, 2015 16:25:56 GMT
(link removed) damn techspot, just reposting verbatim a kotaku article and claiming it as their own.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 27, 2015 18:03:35 GMT
(link removed) damn techspot, just reposting verbatim a kotaku article and claiming it as their own. I noticed that, too. I had brought up before, too, that during the initial fervor too many "game journo" websites were merely reposting large portions of the RPS article - with very little of thier own input - or worse, reposting the other websites that were reposting the RPS info. It's some excellent examples of just how bad journalism has become in this format.
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Post by earlparvisjam on Feb 28, 2015 3:48:15 GMT
(link removed) damn techspot, just reposting verbatim a kotaku article and claiming it as their own. I noticed that, too. I had brought up before, too, that during the initial fervor too many "game journo" websites were merely reposting large portions of the RPS article - with very little of thier own input - or worse, reposting the other websites that were reposting the RPS info. It's some excellent examples of just how bad journalism has become in this format. It's even more glaringly obvious when they post crap like this. Talk about shoddy journalism coupled with poor sensationalism.
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Post by mindless on Mar 17, 2015 10:22:09 GMT
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