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Post by Gmr Leon on Feb 13, 2015 11:04:56 GMT
Have you seen RPS one yet? They still waiting to publish? Think it's still in the works or something, as I'm not seeing it yet. I'd have linked if I'd found it. Either way, looks like we can anticipate a couple more articles of potentially similar interviews with his practiced, "Farewell press, I've truly learned my lesson this time, I'll finally hire a PR person and...and...do design for a change. You meanies." |
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Post by hardly on Feb 13, 2015 11:14:42 GMT
Have you seen RPS one yet? They still waiting to publish? Think it's still in the works or something, as I'm not seeing it yet. I'd have linked if I'd found it. Either way, looks like we can anticipate a couple more articles of potentially similar interviews with his practiced, "Farewell press, I've truly learned my lesson this time, I'll finally hire a PR person and...and...do design for a change. You meanies." He'll lay low for a few months (like the snake he is) but he'll be back eventually promoting the trail or some other scam release. He likes to make promises that he was going to have to do anyway like when he promised not to do kickstarter again (nobody would have backed it anyway) and now no press, well we all know he doesn't want to do press because they've been mean and held him to account. He should have promised to pay Bryan in 72 hours, now that would have been a promise. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Feb 13, 2015 11:27:59 GMT
Loving the Guardian article.
PM really does try to make himself sound like a victim, and I like that the writer of this article observes that he seems unable to keep his stories straight even within the scope of this single conversation (with his comments about no longer speaking to the press). I don't doubt that PM feels genuinely distressed and upset by this present media storm, but he has no one to blame but himself. And having said that, I am sick to the back teeth of hearing his apologies. The press haven't quite picked up on this, but this is NOT the first time PM has unreservedly apologised for something relating to Godus, and these apologies consistently turn up after some kind of exposé in the community, as though 22Cans was previously oblivious to these obvious failings.
PM had an opportunity to do things properly with Godus but he didn't. Whether it was a result of utter incompetence of deliberate scheming doesn't make a difference to me - it's a disgraceful way to treat backers and safeguards should have been in place to prevent it. Once things started going wrong (which, remember, was very early on, while Godus was still in alpha), he wilfully ignored feedback from both customers and his own staff which repeatedly brought these concerns to his attention. None of these issues are in any way new to him. He's just sad that he's been caught.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 11:30:01 GMT
No Peter... We don't mind hearing from you. We'd just wish you'd stop lying. Cheers.
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Post by hardly on Feb 13, 2015 11:42:26 GMT
Loving the Guardian article. PM really does try to make himself sound like a victim, and I like that the writer of this article observes that he seems unable to keep his stories straight even within the scope of this single conversation (with his comments about no longer speaking to the press). I don't doubt that PM feels genuinely distressed and upset by this present media storm, but he has no one to blame but himself. And having said that, I am sick to the back teeth of hearing his apologies. The press haven't quite picked up on this, but this is NOT the first time PM has unreservedly apologised for something relating to Godus, and these apologies consistently turn up after some kind of exposé in the community, as though 22Cans was previously oblivious to these obvious failings. PM had an opportunity to do things properly with Godus but he didn't. Whether it was a result of utter incompetence of deliberate scheming doesn't make a difference to me - it's a disgraceful way to treat backers and safeguards should have been in place to prevent it. Once things started going wrong (which, remember, was very early on, while Godus was still in alpha), he wilfully ignored feedback from both customers and his own staff which repeatedly brought these concerns to his attention. None of these issues are in any way new to him. He's just sad that he's been caught. He makes it seem like this has transpired over a few weeks when in fact it's a multi year slow motion train wreck. |
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Post by Casinha on Feb 13, 2015 12:02:46 GMT
From the Guardian article:
Kinda sums the whole thing up for me, to be honest.
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Post by Deth on Feb 13, 2015 12:06:37 GMT
Well he has to make sure EVERYONE knows he is not going to talk to the press any more right? I mean he could not just tell one outlet that. I mean someone might not see the story and feel sorry for him.
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Post by mindless on Feb 13, 2015 17:30:19 GMT
Holy f'ing hell, this interview is the stake through the heart that moleneux has always been asking for. After reading this i'm done with the guy, he is an absolute fraudster, with no consideration for his backers what so ever, and the lies, oh my god, its pathological, he literately can't stop himself. Disgusting. Rock, Paper, Shotgun: Peter Molyneux Interview “I haven’t got a reputation in this industry any more”Here is just a snippet of the conversation. There is too much to copy and paste, click on the link above to read the full article. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Feb 13, 2015 17:41:29 GMT
The sad thing is, they really barely scratched the surface on the various claims he made to promote and sell the game. Actively promoted features that are clearly implausible and never going to happen, as if their implementation was imminent. Just off the top of my head to name a few - every grain of sand simulated. Cross-platform persistent gameplay. Jupiter sized world. Commandments. 50 million people simultaneous multiplayer. Tornadoes. Avatars. Pets.
Even something straight-forward as your society advancing through the ages, from stone age to space age, is a farce. You get basic homes, and something called a 'frontier age', which I'm sure we all recall from the annals of history as being an actual, defined age of progression.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 17:59:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 18:02:21 GMT
The sad thing is, they really barely scratched the surface on the various claims he made to promote and sell the game. Actively promoted features that are clearly implausible and never going to happen, as if their implementation was imminent. Just off the top of my head to name a few - every grain of sand simulated. Cross-platform persistent gameplay. Jupiter sized world. Commandments. 50 million people simultaneous multiplayer. Tornadoes. Avatars. Pets. Even something straight-forward as your society advancing through the ages, from stone age to space age, is a farce. You get basic homes, and something called a 'frontier age', which I'm sure we all recall from the annals of history as being an actual, defined age of progression. An acorn that grows into a tree - it's the second time he doesn't deliver it, and they took extra money, because it was an addon.
The most terrible thing is, there have been so many imaginative possibilities to monetize the game later on - but he had to invent something incredible amazing totally new and wonderful, only problem it looks like a mix of the most awful methods to steal the money of the people playing the game. And none of them is new or amazing.
If i think about the acorn ... they could have sold seeds to plant trees that grow into big individual trees, maybe procedural so every tree could be different. People could foster them, could decorate them, followers would pray to them and make festives, i would have been a minigame on it's own in the homeworld. Every player would have had the choice to use it or not. They could have sold pets that would have live in it's branches or trunk. He only had to make a meaningful homeworld. No Jupiter sized giant world with 50 Million people. Fill it with cool things, and use it as base for multiplayer. Ah, come on i don't want to think about it anymore. It's useless.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 13, 2015 18:09:00 GMT
I can't seem to get the RPS article to load; not sure if it's on my end or the page is experiencing high volume traffic. The sad thing is, they really barely scratched the surface on the various claims he made to promote and sell the game. Actively promoted features that are clearly implausible and never going to happen, as if their implementation was imminent. Just off the top of my head to name a few - every grain of sand simulated. Cross-platform persistent gameplay. Jupiter sized world. Commandments. 50 million people simultaneous multiplayer. Tornadoes. Avatars. Pets. Even something straight-forward as your society advancing through the ages, from stone age to space age, is a farce. You get basic homes, and something called a 'frontier age', which I'm sure we all recall from the annals of history as being an actual, defined age of progression. In all honesty, many of those promises I didn't buy into from the get-go. I never expected them to actually "simulate every grain of sand" in the literal sense - especially knowing Peters propensity to exaggerate. Technically the sand is simulated, as it's a digitally rendered virtual reality world. I did, however, expect to see something that simulated movement of the turf on certain layer; ripples across the grass or sand. I guess certain limitations were inevitable. I also doubted they'd get cross-platform to work cohesively, but sometimes lofty ideas are needed, as they drive creativity and innovation; hence crowdfunding. You can't expect everything to be possible - but you can support the effort. The "Jupiter Sized World" and "50M players" kind of fits into the above; although I didn't expect the surface to be that large, I did expect not to be locked into limited area biospheres. Having seen other games with either progressively generated or pre-gen worlds do it (and do it well) I just presumed it was a matter of locking in the coding and having servers to support it, than anything else. {did we ever get that sandbox map generator?} Commandments are absolutely doable, they just need to figure out how they will be used and utilised, and lock it in; all that "core game" stuff that's missing would be hugely corrected with a Commandment system. Tornadoes, Avatars, Pets... all possible. All this comes down to Peter over-playing his cards. If he would practice a little will power - being an excitable "creatively minded" individual - and be more specific with his descriptives, keeping extravigant terminology to more realistic levels, it wouldn't have come to this. Well, that and lying his ass off to cover his previous fallacies and over-promising; it's an avalanche once you start down that path. Stop, turn around, and start over. |
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Post by mindless on Feb 13, 2015 19:28:07 GMT
I can't seem to get the RPS article to load; not sure if it's on my end or the page is experiencing high volume traffic. I have copied the chat transcript into a document in my google drive, if you want to view it. Here is the chat transcript |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Feb 13, 2015 19:44:32 GMT
I can't seem to get the RPS article to load; not sure if it's on my end or the page is experiencing high volume traffic. The sad thing is, they really barely scratched the surface on the various claims he made to promote and sell the game. Actively promoted features that are clearly implausible and never going to happen, as if their implementation was imminent. Just off the top of my head to name a few - every grain of sand simulated. Cross-platform persistent gameplay. Jupiter sized world. Commandments. 50 million people simultaneous multiplayer. Tornadoes. Avatars. Pets. Even something straight-forward as your society advancing through the ages, from stone age to space age, is a farce. You get basic homes, and something called a 'frontier age', which I'm sure we all recall from the annals of history as being an actual, defined age of progression. In all honesty, many of those promises I didn't buy into from the get-go. I never expected them to actually "simulate every grain of sand" in the literal sense - especially knowing Peters propensity to exaggerate. Technically the sand is simulated, as it's a digitally rendered virtual reality world. I did, however, expect to see something that simulated movement of the turf on certain layer; ripples across the grass or sand. I guess certain limitations were inevitable. I also doubted they'd get cross-platform to work cohesively, but sometimes lofty ideas are needed, as they drive creativity and innovation; hence crowdfunding. You can't expect everything to be possible - but you can support the effort. The "Jupiter Sized World" and "50M players" kind of fits into the above; although I didn't expect the surface to be that large, I did expect not to be locked into limited area biospheres. Having seen other games with either progressively generated or pre-gen worlds do it (and do it well) I just presumed it was a matter of locking in the coding and having servers to support it, than anything else. {did we ever get that sandbox map generator?} Commandments are absolutely doable, they just need to figure out how they will be used and utilised, and lock it in; all that "core game" stuff that's missing would be hugely corrected with a Commandment system. Tornadoes, Avatars, Pets... all possible. All this comes down to Peter over-playing his cards. If he would practice a little will power - being an excitable "creatively minded" individual - and be more specific with his descriptives, keeping extravigant terminology to more realistic levels, it wouldn't have come to this. Well, that and lying his ass off to cover his previous fallacies and over-promising; it's an avalanche once you start down that path. Stop, turn around, and start over. Yeah, I didn't buy most of these ideas, either. I think the distinction that's important is, it's one thing to spitball concepts and possibilities. It's an entirely separate thing to actively promote these non-existent (and in many cases, completely ludicrous and never-gonna-happen) concepts as being something for sure coming to this game, and using it to drive sales. That's my issue with Peter, here. Not that he over-promises, or has goals that are somewhat absurd. It's that they used these absurdities to sell the game. Not as, hey, this may happen, we're trying to shoot for something like this. But as, this is coming as a main feature, buy this game. That 'What Is Godus' video was front and center on the game's Steam store page for months, recall. The entire premise of that video is that the point of the game is hubworld, and hubworld is a jupiter-sized planet that will host 50 million players. That's where, to me, the conversation around Godus drifts from hey, we get to check out your brainstorming process and concepts that will change as the game is developed, into hey, this is downright coercive marketing. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Feb 13, 2015 19:49:56 GMT
An acorn that grows into a tree - it's the second time he doesn't deliver it, and they took extra money, because it was an addon.
The most terrible thing is, there have been so many imaginative possibilities to monetize the game later on - but he had to invent something incredible amazing totally new and wonderful, only problem it looks like a mix of the most awful methods to steal the money of the people playing the game. And none of them is new or amazing.
If i think about the acorn ... they could have sold seeds to plant trees that grow into big individual trees, maybe procedural so every tree could be different. People could foster them, could decorate them, followers would pray to them and make festives, i would have been a minigame on it's own in the homeworld. Every player would have had the choice to use it or not. They could have sold pets that would have live in it's branches or trunk. He only had to make a meaningful homeworld. No Jupiter sized giant world with 50 Million people. Fill it with cool things, and use it as base for multiplayer. Ah, come on i don't want to think about it anymore. It's useless.
The bold part is a real kicker, right. In most of these recent interviews, the sticking point on why it has been 3 years plus instead of the 7-9 months is that innovation takes time. But Godus isn't innovative. It isn't new. It isn't amazing. It's boiler-plate, very common freemium mechanics. They've in fact gone out of their way to uphold those very boiler-plate mechanics instead of innovating. Months and months ago, for example, when they asked their users what the number one thing they needed to change, overwhelmingly the answer was the resource system, ie, stickers/gems. Their answer was to double down and put out an absurd message about how they love stickers and gems. I can only guess that, internally, people like Fabs are/were mortified by stuff like this. I know I would be. |
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Post by hardly on Feb 13, 2015 20:10:06 GMT
An acorn that grows into a tree - it's the second time he doesn't deliver it, and they took extra money, because it was an addon.
The most terrible thing is, there have been so many imaginative possibilities to monetize the game later on - but he had to invent something incredible amazing totally new and wonderful, only problem it looks like a mix of the most awful methods to steal the money of the people playing the game. And none of them is new or amazing.
If i think about the acorn ... they could have sold seeds to plant trees that grow into big individual trees, maybe procedural so every tree could be different. People could foster them, could decorate them, followers would pray to them and make festives, i would have been a minigame on it's own in the homeworld. Every player would have had the choice to use it or not. They could have sold pets that would have live in it's branches or trunk. He only had to make a meaningful homeworld. No Jupiter sized giant world with 50 Million people. Fill it with cool things, and use it as base for multiplayer. Ah, come on i don't want to think about it anymore. It's useless.
The bold part is a real kicker, right. In most of these recent interviews, the sticking point on why it has been 3 years plus instead of the 7-9 months is that innovation takes time. But Godus isn't innovative. It isn't new. It isn't amazing. It's boiler-plate, very common freemium mechanics. They've in fact gone out of their way to uphold those very boiler-plate mechanics instead of innovating. Months and months ago, for example, when they asked their users what the number one thing they needed to change, overwhelmingly the answer was the resource system, ie, stickers/gems. Their answer was to double down and put out an absurd message about how they love stickers and gems. I can only guess that, internally, people like Fabs are/were mortified by stuff like this. I know I would be. I wish we could get copies of some of the community summary reports that went to peter. It would have been great to share those with the media. They would demonstrate what you are talking about.
Its not that GODUS took longer than expected that's the issue, its that he has spent very little of the time and resource on a true PC game. What we have is literally a mobile port.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 21:47:34 GMT
New Godus article from Kotaku today. Kotaku
Also... if anyone else missed it... Peter assured The Guardian in his interview earlier today that we would have a finished version of Godus in our hands within 9 months. Ze clock, is ticking. Hope it pans out. Good luck FuriousMoo and the rest of the team! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 21:53:18 GMT
From the Kotaku Article...
Molyneux told me that the mobile version was only meant to be a detour—that it simply took longer than intended (the plan: a few months, the result: nearly two years)—but according to two people who have worked for 22Cans, that's not quite true. Mobile was the primary focus from day one, according to those people. During team meetings, Molyneux would talk about the mobile version's potential to earn millions of dollars per day and attract hundreds of millions of people, according to people who were in those meetings. He cited companies like Rovio and King as 22Cans' main competition. Godus, sources say, was built with mobile in mind from the get-go. It came up during nearly every design meeting my sources were privy to—even PC-focused ones. (Molyneux denies those accusations.)
Warning... Warning... the truth has hit the fan... I repeat... the Truth has hit the fan...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 22:01:00 GMT
Ha... if this isn't irony... I don't know what is.
SamVT describing Peter as a bully... Not surprised in the least:
Some developers came away from all of this more soured on Molyneux than others, as evidenced by things like this NeoGAF post from ex-community manager and longtime Molyneux associate Sam Van Tilburgh. In response to another poster's suggestion that Molyneux should have a PR person to keep his infamous larger-than-life promises to a minimum, Van Tilburgh replied, "That used to be me. Problem is he never listens to advice and instead will bully and insult you into oblivion if you dare to disagree with him."
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 13, 2015 22:07:10 GMT
Ha... if this isn't irony... I don't know what is. SamVT describing Peter as a bully... Not surprised in the least: Some developers came away from all of this more soured on Molyneux than others, as evidenced by things like this NeoGAF post from ex-community manager and longtime Molyneux associate Sam Van Tilburgh. In response to another poster's suggestion that Molyneux should have a PR person to keep his infamous larger-than-life promises to a minimum, Van Tilburgh replied, "That used to be me. Problem is he never listens to advice and instead will bully and insult you into oblivion if you dare to disagree with him.""Lord Kelvin's a bully!" I'll leave it up to you guys to figure out from which movie that quote is. And don't ye be using any search engines!  |
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