Debit/Credit Card Chargebacks: Refund Yourself

You might want to check out this thread on our very own board.

I wouldn't recommend anyone go down this route but I do think a good argument can be made that peter made statements recklessly during the kickstarter. His famous quote about promising anything during the Kickstarter suggests he may have made reckless promises to ensure it was funded.

I know it's not about time or deadlines. I was mainly reacting on this part of the post:
"But I feel that even just saying the game would be done in 9 months, but now reiterating in the reply you received, that "the average development for video games can last for up to 4 years" ties in with what Peter Molyneux has said he's known for *years*: that the game had no chance at being made in 9 months."

But what I'm saying is that this is a weak point. The fact that Godus takes way longer than what we were told is (in my opinion) not a valid reason for a refund. Almost all kickstarter games miss deadlines. This is simply one of the things you should expect when kickstarting a project, deadlines are going to be missed and some features won't make it. If you're talking about the article I quoted. The games that delivered 'partly' after a year of funding, may also not have delivered on those features later on. There's no information on that.

Also, of course I don't assume all promised features will be in the game. I can almost gaurantee that the hubworld (as described in the original pitch) is not going to happen. Linux version? As a big FOSS fan, it pains me to say that I do not believe in this. Possession mode and first person world crafting? I don't think so.
Does that make me furious with 22Cans? Not really. Hubworld as described is technically infeasible (they did not really expect it to be that difficult during the pitch, I won't be mad for bad judgement), Linux version is 'cancelled' because the engine they use never added the promised Linux support (case of force majeure), and possession mode was a stretch goal anyway; not a reason I backed this project.
BUT, I do still have hopes that they can make Godus into a good game. I did not back for specific features, I backed for a good god game. (Which hasn't happened since B&W, for me)

Especially when you're backing a Molyneux project, you should not expect everything is going to happen. Everything the man says should be taken with a grain of salt. (Whether he is lying, or a starry-eyed dreamer is another debate. But I think we can all safely say that his words should almost never be taken as a promise).
I think the original Pitch is really illustrative, where Peter says he wants "10 gods vs 10 gods, no 20 gods vs 20 gods. Just imagine the mayhem" and then Tim Rance going "Eight!", "No we'll do eight", "Eight", "we could push beyond eight but that's tricky". Even at the original pitch, it was clear that Peter's goals were ambitious and reaching them would be a difficult task.
The fact that they did not deliver (yet) on some features is something you could expect, and is absolutely no reason to sue them or demand refunds. Especially since they are still working on it.

That being said...
22Cans did make some decisions that are inexcusable in my opinion. Mainly there mobile focus for the first two years. (Whether they are truly committed to PC now remains to be seen). The game turned into a freemium game, and that is a pretty disgraceful if you ask me.
The thing I'm 'angry' about are not the lack of promised features, but the fact that this game is simply not a PC-game. I really don't care if design changes along the way, especially if some goals seem impossible. But they completely ignored their core audience, and made a mobile-focused freemium game.
That combined with the fact that communications have been awful over the years (I do want to say that this has massively improved, so props to that), it is no surprise that community lost faith.

If 22Cans can turn this game into a 'good' game, then I will be satisfied. Again, I don't care about kickstarter goals, design can change along the way, this happens all the time. But right now, this game is nothing but a faded shadow of what it ought to be. As long as they're still working on it, I still have hopes that they intend to actually make this a decent game.

If they want to apply,they should apply. It will at least send a clear message it is not okay to lie your backers in any way. 

This is not about deadlines, this is about deception. If you were an Alpha backer, you would know, we were directly lied to several times about Godus being any type of F2p in the beginning. If you love it as is, then you like F2p. I don't and many others don't and I NEVER would have backed one. PM knew this, so he was not honest about the game and so he deceived us to get our money, blew us off half the time and insulted us.

I would say a refund should be a no brainer. I have been waiting, but all I still see is a watered down F2p. There is no excuse for that and PM deserves what ever happens if he does not stop taking Godus resources and using it on his new game while still failing to complete half of his KS promises.

I'm no lawyer but I think if a kickstarter backer took 22cans to court for a refund they would work.

In New Zealand we have a "Small Claims Tribunal" where you can take these types of consumer cases under $5000k and get a relatively cost free resolution ($50). Is there something similar in the UK you could use? It would really piss 22cans off if they started getting lots of small appeals to these types of bodies becuase they would have to defend each one in person and write responses.

Well... we do have this:

The Guardian - 13th of February, 2015

Molyneux has assured the Guardian, though, that people will be playing a finished version of Godus within nine months.

Edit: Wouldn't it be some massively sad sort of irony if 9 months passes and PM claims he was talking about the mobile version. 

I don't think peter would agree that his nine months comment in that interview was an estimate of when GODUS will be feature complete. It could be if they push it out the door on technicalities but it seems impossible Hubworld would be done by then and the game tested to the point it can be declared 1.0.

This old chestnut.

All the rewards/investor tiers, forget them. In English law the contract you agreed was simple. You GAVE them money, you didn't invest and you didn't buy anything, you gave them your money. In return for your generosity they agreed if the kickstarter was successful they would give you some things back. The problem is it's not like walking into cup cake shop and ordering 30 cup cakes for a birthday next month. This was much more a kin to you giving your friend a few £100 to start a cup cake business and her saying, When we are successful, you're going to get free cup cakes for life.

Your other problem is their are 4 parties in this, your bank/credit card, kickstarter, you and 22Cans. Now 22Can's is irrelevant to you claim because the problem is not this project but all projects in general. It's though crowdfunding could raise over $100 billion by 2025 which is great but we know a lot of projects fail. If we take a very small number 10% of funded projects fail, that means someone is left with a bill of $10 billion/year. We assume the failures don't have the money left to repay as they failed (even if x% like 22cans do that still leave a majority who don't), so either your bank, KS or you need to take the loss. Believe it or not, KS and your bank have no interest in taking this loss/risk and will work hard together to move it back to you who has already absolved them of all liability as part of the T&C at sign-up...

The reality is you probably lost £100 or less, Peter has totally screwed up the latter part of his career. Everyone he screwed bough into his vision blind based solely on his name. That isn't going to happen again. He could release the next angry birds and I still wouldn't download it.

We must persevere and keep trying to keep the record straight.