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Post by mindless on Mar 10, 2015 5:13:25 GMT
Here is something interesting that's just popped up. Taking a look directly at the difficulties in legal interpretation of kickstarter rules, the law as it stands, with everything framed around the peter molyneux and godus situation as a case in point. The article author ( Dan Rogers, who is licenced to practice law in the state of california, and the eastern federal district court) looks at the following topics of interest: - KICKSTARTER REWARDS
- KICKSTARTER PLEDGES
- GIFTS
- DETERMINING GIFTS AND PURCHASES
- BACKERS ARE NOT INVESTORS
- DANGEROUS WORDS
- KICKSTARTER LIABILITIES
- GOVERNMENT ACTION
- CONSUMER ACTION
- MISSING THE TARGET
- PUFFERY
- CONSUMERS AND INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS
- NO SHELTER IN A STORM
Most of his topics lead onto other linked articles (refer to the citations at the bottom of the page) Gamasutra: Understanding Your Kickstarter Liabilities |
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Post by hardly on Mar 10, 2015 6:28:38 GMT
Good reading. It's quite funny to see those RPS quotes especially:
I’m not aware of a single lie, actually. I’m aware of me saying things and because of circumstances often outside of our control those things don’t come to pass, but I don’t think that’s called lying, is it? Rockpapershotgun.com interview (2/13/15)
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heggers
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Post by heggers on Mar 10, 2015 14:14:16 GMT
Looks like the censors decided to delete your post mindlessI stand corrected. They decided to hide it instead |
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Post by mrdrpink on Mar 10, 2015 14:29:22 GMT
We haven't deleted this post, we've just moved it to the 22cans & Kickstarter sub forum.
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heggers
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Post by heggers on Mar 10, 2015 14:30:15 GMT
Same difference
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arryu
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Post by arryu on Mar 10, 2015 18:37:12 GMT
So you've gone from deleting posts you don't like to simply putting them in obscure sub forums which (I'm fairly certain) didn't exist two days ago? Yeah, that's ethical Seriously, there's six threads in that sub forum and they're all the negative ones that speak against 22 cans. I can all but see you all sitting in your little circle like the villains of Hot Fuzz Scene: Muir, Anyen, and the other 22cans officials sitting around a stone table in a courtyard wearing hooded cloaks. Midnight. Muir:"First order of business, Peter M has announced a new game mode for the trial, and we're all invited to the tech demo" *happy applause* "And now some sad news. It seems our friend mindless' post has suffered a terrible tradgedy. This morning his post was somehow placed in the '22cans & Kickstarter' sub forum we made to promote the awesome job Peter did getting funding for the game. However, since we have about 10 subforums and no one will look in all of them for the post in question... the thread will die in obscurity" *insincere sad looks pass around the table* *Enter heggers, beaten and haggard from an earlier ordeal* heggers:"Oh don't think it will die that easily! I know what you did. Moving posts you don't like to hide them from the masses. It's just as bad as deleting them without warning! For Gods sake you didn't even leave a redirection!" Muir:"You! I thought you'd left long ago. Well, it's no matter soon you will be gone just like all those threads you posted" heggers: "I'm not going to give up the fight, I'll show everyone that you're all charlatans!" Muir: But don't you see? Deleting and moving posts is something that needs to happen for Godus to be Game of the Millennium! Everything we do, we do for the greater good!" All except heggers: " The greater good!" |
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Post by eskaton23 on Mar 10, 2015 19:12:27 GMT
We haven't deleted this post, we've just moved it to the 22cans & Kickstarter sub forum. This is bloody shameful.......I've been a little active on the steam site but lurking here as it is a more comfortable read. The behaviour of this company beggars belief more and more. |
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heggers
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Post by heggers on Mar 10, 2015 22:25:44 GMT
So you've gone from deleting posts you don't like to simply putting them in obscure sub forums which (I'm fairly certain) didn't exist two days ago? Yeah, that's ethical Seriously, there's six threads in that sub forum and they're all the negative ones that speak against 22 cans. I can all but see you all sitting in your little circle like the villains of Hot Fuzz Scene: Muir, Anyen, and the other 22cans officials sitting around a stone table in a courtyard wearing hooded cloaks. Midnight. Muir:"First order of business, Peter M has announced a new game mode for the trial, and we're all invited to the tech demo" *happy applause* "And now some sad news. It seems our friend mindless' post has suffered a terrible tradgedy. This morning his post was somehow placed in the '22cans & Kickstarter' sub forum we made to promote the awesome job Peter did getting funding for the game. However, since we have about 10 subforums and no one will look in all of them for the post in question... the thread will die in obscurity" *insincere sad looks pass around the table* *Enter heggers, beaten and haggard from an earlier ordeal* heggers:"Oh don't think it will die that easily! I know what you did. Moving posts you don't like to hide them from the masses. It's just as bad as deleting them without warning! For Gods sake you didn't even leave a redirection!" Muir:"You! I thought you'd left long ago. Well, it's no matter soon you will be gone just like all those threads you posted" heggers: "I'm not going to give up the fight, I'll show everyone that you're all charlatans!" Muir: But don't you see? Deleting and moving posts is something that needs to happen for Godus to be Game of the Millennium! Everything we do, we do for the greater good!" All except heggers: " The greater good!" haha! That gave me the laugh I sorely needed right now |
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heggers
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Post by heggers on Mar 10, 2015 22:41:19 GMT
You know I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually starting to miss GK... Someone fetch me the long armed pajamas and find me a rubber room... How can one company so consistently foul up PR so badly. It feels like a constant dance of one step forward, two steps back. You are aware that there is a cliff behind you right?
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Post by hardly on Mar 10, 2015 23:25:49 GMT
If their motives are as you say (to hide negative opinions about GODUS) their actions are both counterproductive and futile and as such are amusing to me.
Also Heggers your post amused me.
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Post by zayfard on Mar 11, 2015 6:32:27 GMT
We haven't deleted this post, we've just moved it to the 22cans & Kickstarter sub forum. No didn't delete posts you just hide them you hist hide where no one will ever look. Because of cause being dishonest and immoral will improve 22Cans reputation as a dishonest and immoral company. Still after all the fall out, all the apologies 22Cans the only thing that has changed at 22Cans is they have gotten worse. Well done Dave, you took a company with a dreadful image and made it worse |
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Post by muumipeikko on Mar 11, 2015 11:17:26 GMT
I'm just trying to understand this nonsense. If I get it right someone posted a thread on a 22Can's official forum that put the company in a bad light? Regardless of whether the article has any factual value or is just another self important blogger who thinks their opinion matters even though that have no qualifications in the area, does anyone really expect 22Can's to behave any differently? I don't think their is anything immoral or dishonest in the actions undertaken assuming they were posted on 22Can's own official site. People often get caught up in their own self-importance and fail to understand that an official forum is a public virtual extension of the company and they have the right to protect their image on it just the same as they do if you go to their HQ and write THIEF in paint on their walls.
Anyone who assumes the official forums are anything but pro-22Can's is at best naïve and that's is one reason why I only ever bother reading this site as it's independent and as such not a mouth-piece for the company. As they say, he who pays the organ grinder calls the tune.
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Post by mindless on Mar 11, 2015 11:58:57 GMT
Regardless of whether the article has any factual value or is just another self important blogger who thinks their opinion matters even though that have no qualifications in the area In this case the article is by a laywer, talking about legal aspects of kickstarter, so it is of great interest to many people at the moment, this is someone that is actually talking with authority, and has the appropriate qualifications and standing to talk on the subject. This is information that 22 cans, absolutely do not want their community to learn about. It's not about putting them in a bad light ( they appear already quite capable of doing that to themselves without my help), its about informing people of their rights, something 22 cans don't want their customers to know anything about. I posted something to the general board that was completely on topic however the moderators didn't want anyone to read it, and as it wasn't breaking any rules, they just decided on the spur of the moment, to create a sub forum where they could move it over into, obviously hoping that this would put it out of the view of the general browsing public. It is this unfairness in the way they are moderating the forums, their arbitrary application of rules that they just make up on the spot that the community is pissed of with. We sense that they are actively working against us, rather than wanting to be part of the community with us. We are disappointed with 22 cans in how they say to us they are willing to listen to us, and that they want to be more open, but their actions speak out against them, and reveal their talk to be yet another broken promise, showing their insincerity, with them continuing to ignore us, and attempting to silence our opinions by hiding them away. Its truly pathetic behavior. If i'm not breaking any rules then what right have they to silence me. Yes they have the physical capability to silence me, but ask yourself do they have the moral right to do so? When the information I am posting is of obvious interest to certain members of the community. If it causes shit for 22 cans I could care less. I care more about the people that 22 cans are screwing over. |
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Post by muumipeikko on Mar 11, 2015 12:43:25 GMT
No I think I understand, what I don't understand is why you think Peter et all should give you a soap box to chant you're hatred of them and their company in their companies "virtual lobby". You wouldn't go to their office and start chanting how Sh1t they are and expect anything except to be moved on by security or the police. Public official forums are not a level field for discussion, they are an extension of the companies virtual presence primarily aimed at encouraging positive discussion about the game and company and an extension of the marketing department. The roll of a moderator in an official forum is different from the roll of a moderator in a unofficial forum like this. Their job/goal is to ensure positive discussion which tows the company line. Believe it or not people starting negative threads or how to sue the company... are always going to be at loggerheads with the mods as they're exactly the people they're their to silence and as they have all the power because you're on their turf, you have absolutely no way of wining that battle. At the moment they are playing with you like a cat plays with a mouse it has caught, eventually they will tire and kill you off. Sites like this are a place for level discussion without pro-company censorship.
Don't get me wrong, I ponied up £322 and feel cheated by the whole KS thing and would never buy anything with Peters name on it again for KS anything for that matter, but their is a time and a place and the place to discuss how sh1t 22Can's are and the place is not on their official forum! You can't expect any other behaviour that the one you have got. Every company says that would like to hear your feedback but I don't know of any who put on their official web site "Mr smith from Chester thinks we are crap and have robbed him blind, out MD is a complete c&^% who should rot in hell and here is a link to a class action web site he is trying to organise"
To be clear, I don't disagree with your underlying message but your strategy to get it out is flawed.
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Post by mindless on Mar 11, 2015 13:06:08 GMT
No I think I understand, what I don't understand is why you think Peter et all should give you a soap box to chant you're hatred of them and their company in their companies "virtual lobby".
Um, Hatred, where do you get that from? My post was just pointing to an article about legal opinion. There is no hatred in my post, nor in the article itself. I try to keep my personal opinion out of posts that i make pointing to external articles. I do hate how they operate, and how they have treated some of the community, and i don't mind telling them that when they give me cause to bring it up, but to say that my post is chanting hatred at them is a far stretch. I would also like to offer up an observation: If they have behaved legally then logically they should have nothing to fear from a post discussing legal rights. Their current behavior is highly suggestive of something, I'll let everyone come to their own conclusions about what that something might be. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Mar 11, 2015 14:32:06 GMT
muumipeikko I don't know if the link to the article was posted in 22Cans official Godus forum, but it was posted on Steam which is a 3rd party public forum - an open forum, like going to a local meetup or convention, and discussing similar interests; think of the Steam Godus community forum as a panel or workshop, hosted by VALVe, to discuss the game with other fans, critics, and the devs. So it's completely ok to bring up and discuss that article in that forum.
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Post by mindless on Mar 11, 2015 14:52:32 GMT
I only posted in steam and here, i have not visited the official 22 cans forums for a very long time (to be honest I kind of forgot they even existed).
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Post by muumipeikko on Mar 11, 2015 16:29:29 GMT
OK, so if Steam forums are a true third party forum and not a forum run by 22Can's hosted by Steam, how come between you, you can't change the moderating team? I don't know much about it but seems 22Can's manage the mod's and so the Forum is the official 22Can's Godus steam forum.
Let me ask it another way, How does mindless get promoted to a mod on the forum? If the answer is someone in 22Can's need to promote him then it is like I said, the Steam forum is just another official 22Cans forum hosted this time by steam.
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