heggers
Master
Posts: 203 
Pledge level: Partner
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Post by heggers on Apr 14, 2015 13:08:40 GMT
If you haven't seen it yet do give this video by Jim Stirling a watch. I definitely think those certain elements (not looking at three in particular) who spout off that we should not criticise Godus as its in "early access" should pay close attention.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 19:51:39 GMT
Spot-on Sterling, as usual.
Godus on PC wouldn't be so hilariously bad if only 22cans had some idea of what Early Access was before they abused it.
Since they obviously thought Kickstarter = free money without obligation, a belief they still appear to hold onto, I've not much hope for them to suddenly and after all this time realise that hiding behind an NDA in regards to PC development only looks like they have even less of a clue about the Early Access program than Kickstarter.
They've only figured out that Early Access is a great excuse for having people bughunt your game while you marginalise them and offer in token things for replacement of the focal point of the game's crappy design around microtransactions.
"There's a difference, however, between a work-in-progress and a work that's barely f***ing started."
Guess where Godus PC is still, especially by comparison to Spiderweb's custom map efforts?
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Post by hardly on Apr 16, 2015 6:42:21 GMT
Great video. I especially like the bit about "if you put your game on early access its open season on criticising it" or something like that. Its bullshit to hide behind "its not finished" to avoid criticism when you are charging money for the product in the first place.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Apr 16, 2015 8:20:30 GMT
I thought Godus was an abuse of Early Access (and still do) but some of the games I've seen described in this video and elsewhere are an absolute joke. Even if these projects were created in good faith, can the developers really believe they're behaving ethically by releasing these products and charging money for them? There's very little to differentiate a crappy 'game' that was made in good faith (and is unlikely to go anywhere due to the developer's lack of skill and resource) and a deliberate scam. Why on earth is it taking Steam so long to do something about this? The lack of consumer protection is obscene.
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Aron
Master
Posts: 125
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023768234/
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Post by Aron on Apr 16, 2015 9:06:16 GMT
rule 6 dont buy any game from 22 cans
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 16, 2015 11:07:04 GMT
rule 6 dont buy any game from 22 cans Nope for two reasons. 1. Rules described are for the developers, not players. 2. Redundancy. |
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Post by engarde on Apr 21, 2015 16:01:51 GMT
rule 6 dont buy any game from 22 cans Nope for two reasons. 1. Rules described are for the developers, not players. 2. Redundancy. 1. Yes, so? 2. Eh? Players enlisting in early access are more than players. They have an expectation of failures they'd not expect or accept in an actual released game. If they expect a fully function product ready game in early access they are just wrong. If they happen to have acquired Godus believing it was finished or near finished they will soon discover an alternative reality. Are you suggesting that if we fail to continue to accept worthless money sucking games in Early Access then development shops may shutdown? Let them. They should. I'm a developer in RL and I don't expect to deliver a poor quality result and have continued employment. Given that everyone at 22cans appears to have the downtime to cruft up their next great thing in free time, even Jack, I'm not sure why redundancy has any bearing on the 6th (or the 1st 5) rules. |
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Post by morsealworth on Apr 21, 2015 16:41:34 GMT
Nope for two reasons. 1. Rules described are for the developers, not players. 2. Redundancy. 1. Yes, so? 2. Eh? 1. The 5 rules described are for the developers to listen to. The player must take them into account, but cannot abide to them himself. Therefore the rule 6 falls out. 2. This "rule six" is simply redundant since 22Cons already break most of the rules (the only rules that don't concern them are Unity-specific ones). That's why you can't add it as a sixth rule. |
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Post by engarde on Apr 22, 2015 11:46:41 GMT
Ah that redundancy... as opposed to lack of employment due to company/role exiting stage left...
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heggers
Master
Posts: 203
Pledge level: Partner
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Post by heggers on Apr 29, 2015 22:22:15 GMT
Because I predict those "charming" mods on the steam forum to delete my post I'm duplicating it here...
I don't have to remember anything as I'm one of the idiots that backed the kickstarter at partner level. I've seen it all... from when PM thought he might be able to release the alpha early to beta backers (which he ended up doing through claiming it was beta and putting it on steam), to the initial train wreck of discovery of the cash shop and gems. I witnessed the promises there wouldn't be free to play mechanics, I watched as the community pleaded with 22Cans to about face and get rid of the rashly thought out idea at the out set. I saw 22Cans first community manager become so disillusioned by you're lies that he turned his back on the company and is now one of your biggest detractors. I've seen 22Cans take a poor game and make it worse with the release of v2.0. I've seen board censorship, the first (and best) volunteer mod become so fed up he left with nary a positive word to say. Final I've seen two titled community managers walk away from this company to whit I foresee you doing so as well
I've seen all of this and more. I reckon I've been here longer than you Dave
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 23:08:51 GMT
Because I predict those "charming" mods on the steam forum to delete my post I'm duplicating it here... I don't have to remember anything as I'm one of the idiots that backed the kickstarter at partner level. I've seen it all... from when PM thought he might be able to release the alpha early to beta backers (which he ended up doing through claiming it was beta and putting it on steam), to the initial train wreck of discovery of the cash shop and gems. I witnessed the promises there wouldn't be free to play mechanics, I watched as the community pleaded with 22Cans to about face and get rid of the rashly thought out idea at the out set. I saw 22Cans first community manager become so disillusioned by you're lies that he turned his back on the company and is now one of your biggest detractors. I've seen 22Cans take a poor game and make it worse with the release of v2.0. I've seen board censorship, the first (and best) volunteer mod become so fed up he left with nary a positive word to say. Final I've seen two titled community managers walk away from this company to whit I foresee you doing so as well I've seen all of this and more. I reckon I've been here longer than you Dave I was just about to remark about this. Then it got me to thinking...they're working on some of the backer rewards (years after the fact in some applicability) but what about some of the details of the levels of pledging. For your pledge in particular: PARTNER - You get two special digital GODUS editions. Your followers in your Homeworld will carve a statue of your image. You also get access to GODUS Alpha where you can download and test the game with the 22cans team (not onsite). You also get an in-game credit – your name will appear for all to see. Finally, your teeshirt will be signed by anyone or everyone at 22cans, including Peter Molyneux. Just take a look at that load of they haven't even gotten anywhere close yet, and this was given 7-9 months! Not to insult you in any way, but 22cans were obviously looking to prey upon those with naive belief to exploit, based upon brand recognition of Peter's name and some of the actual work he's done. Peter himself even admitted to as much, looking for naive people with drive he can use, and now as proven, throw away when it is convenient for him to. This all while the Godus team are basically allowed to/only able to piddle around with combat for the foreseeable future, then multiplayer, then probably call it finished and try to think everyone has forgotten Godus for when they finally do pitch The Trail at The Trial. The thing is...22cans could simply do away with a LOT of unhappy backers and customers if they cared to. Peter said that he still had the Kickstarter money - it is only Peter who is then keeping himself liable for the Kickstarter fraud, as he could simply...do away with it. www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use" You can refund individual pledges if you want. After your project has been funded, you can cancel and refund a backer’s pledge at any time. If you do, you have no further obligation to that specific backer, and no agreement exists between you." (Some form of issuing refunds has existed in the ToS from at least back as 2 Jan 12.) That is...if we weren't obviously dealing with a dodgy company with questionable business ethics and management capability that make 22cans look...not nice nor very well off at all. After all, they ban people for "rage posting" when all the person was doing is asking how 22cans expects to do repeat business after already making a game that I offered a rather frank appraisal of, which they didn't like. Just wait until they try to Spacebase or keep this title in spin-cycle dev hell, people will have a LOT WORSE to say about it than calling it "piece of shit". They are going to have a lot worse to say about 22cans when it is revealed that either the management of 22cans were entirely out of touch with their own community, or were applauding the regular abuses done to it. Guess which the Kickstarter fraud says is more likely? |
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