How to NOT PR:

That has been brought up to 22cans repeatedly, including that by refunding the Kickstarter to the folks who desire it they could absolve themselves from those contractual obligations.  It would also be a decent move to allow those who felt cheated in the Early Access of Godus - or the lack of participation thereof - to offer them ANY reason to speak well of 22cans and maybe not hold a grudge.

Pointing out these things is apparently forbidden, as per the FAKE STEAM RULES that are being enfarced to further antagonise people.

It really looks like 22cans are hurting for cash, as the mobile probably hasn't made anywhere as much as they've tried to claim, and so are holding onto whatever they can to hold off insolvency.  Otherwise, again, 22cans can just absolve themselves from all of those Kickstarter contract obligations by refunding those who request it.

Newp, 22cans would rather keep antagonising those they've already lied to, made irate in some cases, and continue to disappoint by making us say things about Peter and his gang that 25 years ago would have been blasphemy.

The phrase "pissing into the wind" readily comes to mind if Aynen is hoping that purging those dissatisfied with the game from the forums will make things better in any way.

Simply put, it sounds like Aynen is trying to treat a symptom, not the illness. Unfortunately I don't think he's in a position to really effect the illness that was bred by 22cans and PM.

Aynen, as a moderator of the steam forums, you must be familiar with the guidlines that valve provide their partners with. It clearly states that users have an right to criticise/complain about issues with a game or its features. I'll quote it verbatim below if you are somehow unfamilar with it...


So how do you square your current tactic of silencing users, through deletions and bans, for doing something that they have every right to do, and is enshrined as a right within the steam guides. You are working in direct conflict against this very principal.

The guidance even states that attempting to hide negative reviews/criticism will cause the forum to degenerate into chaos, can you not see that this is exactly what has occurred, and that like it or not, you and your partners in crime are directly responsible for much of the animosity over there.

I can't believe Aynen has the bare-faced cheek to come on here and admit to censorship of the majority of their original paying customers just so they don't scare off new customers. He's all but admiting this is just some god-awful cash grab, right there. I wan't to reel off a long list of expletives after reading that wolf feeding bullshit!

Fuck you Anyen, Fuck you! And the 22cans you rode in on! Patronising twat.

Aynen while I appreciate your candor you probably should have left it at your first post. The logic of your second post is deeply flawed.

You can't moderate to balance. The reason that more people are negative is because of the situation, you cant increase the number of positive people through moderation. In fact it's the reverse your moderation makes people more angry and negative. The best thing from a moderation point of view is to stop moderating.

Nobody is bullying positive people or preventing them having their say but we are crowding them out with our numbers. This isn't intentional or a conspiracy it's just a function of our numbers and commitment to our views. Negativity also tends to be a function of time spent following/playing godus so we are also better informed.

If you and 22cans want to improve communications then you have to have honest communication. The present policy of "we are in full development" (lolz) and "combat now, multiplayer next" is deeply flawed. First of all it denies the facts we all know which requires us to challenge these statements. Secondly it deprives people of any positive information about future progress that might build positivity.

What you as moderators and what Dave as a CM have done is salt the earth of the forums so that nothing good will grow. Many people like me were actually in the give Moo a chance 4 months ago. Don't believe me? Go see my posts including my arguments with Earl on this board. Now I've been banned for a month for telling someone they are trolling. Unbelievable. I was then falsely accused of engaging in a coordinated bullying attack. Now I rage, my posting frequency is up and it's all negative all the time. When my month is back I'll be back on Steam telling people about the dishonesty and lack of ethics that is 22cans. Can you see how you are feeding the bad wolf now?

If 22cans fed the good wolf, rewarded people when they were patient and surprised people on positive side with good news the community would start to turn by this never happens. When ever we think 22cans has turned a corner they let us down again.

It's simple say what you are going to do and do what you say.

my sincere appologies Lord Ba'al.

I couldn't believe what i was reading, but that is no excuse for my outburst.

 Without causing far more damage than by nuking the post from orbit.

This way, it shows the reasons for moderator action, the moderator action should preclude others from chastising the poster, and the poster can edit and make a retraction/apology whatever if they so desire to - while also not derailing the conversation completely by turning it into discussion of moderator principles (which explains about 4 deleted posts from Interceptor on the "Why do you think nobody plays GODUS anymore?" thread mentioning just that).

While I appreciate Aynen coming here and being more honest about his reasons, there is a certain amount of outrage folks will express at so callously admitting the intentional division of the community, along with all those pointing out how this is clearly and horribly wrong for retaining any kind of community as it assumes that those who might have some hope about the game may not ever speak critically of it or the development behind it.

And it also assumes that those who might have hope for the game might not have friends who are dissatisfied with it - actions taken upon their friend or someone they know on the forum is going to sour them as well, especially if the reasons are libelous, and so turns the discussion towards the moderation of the forum as clearly seen multiple times over.  That means 22cans seemingly derails threads themselves by this - and so violate the Steam posting rules themselves if we wanted to be technical about it.

I'm fairly sure if his post were left alone, he would have simply have been dissatisfied with the game:


But since his opinion was disagreed with by deletion, then the user was libeled on top of that, Interceptor certainly had reason to develop a personal grudge after being bullied by moderation.  So now dissatisfaction of the game has turned into something more personal because they are not allowed their opinion which Steam extends to its users as defined by Steamworks documentation and allowed within the real Steam rules.

Community management along the lines of removing everyone who doesn't have hope, so there are only people who have hope remaining, might only work in a video game and for the likes of El Presidente.  Over-moderation of a forum is becoming one of the warning signs upon Steam that a game's community management is enacting this kind of "damage control" as a response to grievances about the game that quickly turn into discussions of moderating (again, as per the Steamworks documentation).

The bigger problem is that Aynen, Muir, and Dave have been trying to insist that their actions are by "the Steam rules" when in fact they are not, which turns this into a company liability.  This is why I've been wondering if this is all company policy or personal policy, though it seems to have been in place for over a year at this point.

Where does The Trail of libel end with 22cans' community management?  
That is a fairly serious accusation, but so has the situation become that serious to the point of potentially helping to destroy a publisher-developer business relationship.

I can offer assistance if it is desired, by offering contact with mentors who have been able to manage communities FAR larger and more diverse than what 22cans has dealt with upon Steam.  Those folks also have to deal with RPGCodex on a regular basis, which by comparison this community and most Steam communities are all sunshine and rainbows.  

They would also likely tell you that threads which detail grievances or dissatisfaction with how a game turned out are the perfect opportunity for the community management to step in and offer explanation about what is going on...but that only works if you're not trying to hide details of the game's development through shutting down communication channels.

At least others would see you trying, versus...this.

I was going to post a longer comment, but I realized my heart wasn't in it. Basically, it amounts to this; The 22Cans official forum is a wasteland of broken dreams.

If people have issues that they want to see addressed but are routinely ignored, sidelined, censored or otherwise mistreated by the game developers and their support staff, then do you not see how that might justifiably lead towards a growing sense of resentment?



Discussing the games troubled development inside a forum is not doing harm, but merely a statement of facts, the harm if any has been committed is entirely down to the actions (or inactions) of the game developer. Reporting on the result of those actions should not be considered as harmful, it is a chance for the game studio to step up, apologise, and demonstrate maturity by laying out a clear path that will lead on towards a solution to the problem. Turning around and accusing your customers of causing you harm is exactly the same thing that Molyneux has done before in calling us out as bullies. Your stance on this speaks volumes about your inexperience.



So you admit that these people that you have been kicking out were merely seeking justice, how can depriving anyone of their right to open discussion be in any way considered justice?



Indeed, your actions are directly responsible for much of the anger, it would be hard for you to not notice it, infact it seams now that you are content to generate anger either directly yourself, or in conjunction with your pet trolls/sock puppets, so that it builds to such a point that you can use it for justification to exclude people from your forums.



If you make people angry, and then give them no cause for appeal, then it is your actions that are turning this situation into something worse.



Pointing out that something is missing and/or broken in a game can't be used as blame on the community for the games failings, that's entirely on the shoulders of the development staff to fix.



Take a look around here, there is much more debate on this forum than on yours, with people that hold both positive/negative views, I don't see anyone around here complaining about a lack of space, do you? Why do you think that is?



The negative discussions on the forum are not without basis in reality, they are a reaction to the failings of the company. You also do us an injustice of implying that there is anger in everything we say. You have such a polarised view of things on your part, black vs white, us vs them, it's no wonder you look towards exclusion as a solution. Word of advice, segregation, or discrimination against a group of people throughout history is generally looked down upon, what your doing is worse than telling us to go sit at the back of the bus, your telling us we can't even ride in the bus.



I think you are misusing the word "Hope" here, what i believe you really are saying is "Naive". people may have hope that a good game might eventually be released, but should they really have hope for it with the way that the development team are handling things? They should be treated with respect and allowed to learn the true history of the games development when they request it, and not be kept in the dark, protected from the outside world in an insulated bubble. People have the right to make up their own minds on the subject. But they will be unable to do so if they are shielded from the facts.



Once again, take a look around here, all are welcome, do you see anyone on these forums despairing for the lack of hope?



If a member has a problem with others on the forum, then they can of course come and raise the issue with a moderator. It should then be upto you to diffuse the situation, but you are not interested in resolving this through open contact, You censor first, then invent false reasons justifying your actions afterwards.



So in creating a place for one group of people, you are willing to sideline an entire other group of people with justifiable grievances, is there seriously no other way. It's pathetic that your not even willing to try.