tikigod
Master
Resistance is mean.
Posts: 115 
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Post by tikigod on Jun 11, 2015 15:35:41 GMT
To be fair, community volunteer mods do have a habit of posting opinion answers as if speaking from a position of authority or using words that suggest they're doing so in official capacities (E.G. referring to the development team working on the game as "We are working on.." or "Our current focus.."), in this case having them post what is is borderline off-topic generic answers to things not even asked is likely to get antagonistic replies.
Citing how the two differ by saying one is F2P with Micro-transactions and the other is pay to play without micro-transactions doesn't touch on the question of why that's the case. The OP made it clear they knew full well how the two differed in entry model in the fact they were asking why it was that way.
Further giving examples such as the pit of doom which by 22Cans own admittance was added as a band-aid because when copying the mobile design over to PC during the 2.2 overhaul, because without it they found that the PC version just wasn't able to function without micro-transactions... is also just further building on the confusion of why it's how it is now in the first place.
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Post by totallytim on Jun 11, 2015 16:55:06 GMT
Yeah, I understand. Despite all that has gone on, there's no need for nastiness. I agree, but it does feel quite frustrating when the only activity you see from staff members consists of: -defending the game or making excuses while being as vague as possible -banning users and deleting posts -being a condescending smartass (sorry can't currently think of a nicer word) I'm not defending the banned user here, specially if what Colin said is true, but it isn't hard to imagine that people are going to snap after you poke them with a stick, no matter how small. After all you took our money and have shown virtually no progress for more than a year, while Godus remains as much of a 'f2p' facebook game as ever. |
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Post by mindless on Jun 11, 2015 18:02:15 GMT
Delete post, Ban User, Make accusations, could have sworn we have been here before.
You'd have thought they might have wanted to move away from these hard line tactics, but I guess not.
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 11, 2015 18:05:21 GMT
I deleted a post that was quite a bit vocal towards Aynen. I see. Tho I still question the necessity to call people out in the forum. THIS! A god mod or Admin does not feel a need for public flogging. If you have an issue with a poster, you should PM that to them. If you need to delete or edit a post, you just do. You do not chastise a poster on an open board. You do not debate with a poster about the merits of their posts on an open board. You do not explain to all the other posters about the situation. When you do this, you look like you trying to show how "important" you are, and how much mod power you behold to squash upon your measly little pion posters you stand so far above. Your mods are not experienced and while it does not take brain surgery to be one, it does take tact. For the trillionith time, since before Alpha came out, I have said, 22cans picked wrong. Find better mods and you will have a marked improvement in the quality of presence on Steam. |
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Post by totallytim on Jun 11, 2015 18:51:19 GMT
Well to be fair, we did accuse them of censorship in the past for making negative posts disappear. And as far as I know there's no PM feature on steam, unless you add them as a friend (at least as far as I know).
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 11, 2015 19:13:36 GMT
Well to be fair, we did accuse them of censorship in the past for making negative posts disappear. And as far as I know there's no PM feature on steam, unless you add them as a friend (at least as far as I know). I would just ignore that, tbh. Better to let sleeping dogs lie than keep kicking them. The Admins and Mods must have a way to contact the posters. |
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Post by hardly on Jun 11, 2015 19:30:58 GMT
Wtf did Paulison do? Nothing in that post was attacking or antagonizing or trolling. That looks completely like a gag-restraint to silence anything that questioned the mods. Did I miss something that got deleted? I've seen Paulusian's post (which has since been deleted from public view). I imagine it's for these: "stop being a petty, sarcastic and snarky jerk" & "you're apparently too thick to read between the lines" Not exactly the nicest language or tone. Fair call. |
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Post by paulusian on Jun 11, 2015 19:51:18 GMT
I'm just going to put this here, as opposed to the Open Board:
If anyone from 22cans thought I was angry before, you were mistaken; however, witnessing you all gossiping about this situation in a potentially slanderous manner on a third-party forum is not only offensive, entirely unprofessional, and out-of-line, it's infuriating as well, and I may just have to adjust my mood accordingly. Every post I've ever made in regards to this game has been made while laughing, or sitting here slack-jawed in horror and shock; I wasn't angry, I was flabbergasted. Maybe that should change...
But for your trigger-happy moderators, my post would remain for others to see and critique, without you posting excerpts taken completely out-of-context. I've been taken to task by members of this community in the past for being too blunt and scathing--the difference being that they've all handled themselves appropriately, which cannot in any way be said about your company representatives.
Much like nearly every other endeavor taken on by 22cans, your representative moderators are unable to even ban people appropriately or properly; it's unfortunate for them, but the initial notification I saw of my "break" was a post in the thread you deleted my post from; I'd never have been forced to go to a guest board on a third-party forum in order to dispute it if your moderators could be bothered to learn how to properly operate the system.
If you had a legitimate reason for the ban, you wouldn't be tumbling over backwards trying to find insults where none exist, deliberately twisting and mis-interpreting what you don't like hearing, childishly and without a care for professional ethics posting said out-of-context twistings publicly in a deplorable attempt at "naming-and-shaming," and refusing to acknowledge the errors you've made.
It's truly saddening to see that your company and it's representatives have deliberately gone out of their way to single-out and discriminate against paying customers who voice negative opinions regarding your product in an effort to provide a "safe environment" for users who've never paid a dime to ask questions and voice their opinions--it's even been admitted to, publicly.
If you're ever in America, please don't stop in a greasy-spoon diner; your hysterically manufactured faux-outrage over being "insulted" will likely give the poor old waitress a heart-attack when she asks, "Can I take your order, hon?" Honestly...
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Post by paulusian on Jun 11, 2015 20:32:08 GMT
Wtf did Paulison do? Nothing in that post was attacking or antagonizing or trolling. That looks completely like a gag-restraint to silence anything that questioned the mods. Did I miss something that got deleted? I've seen Paulusian's post (which has since been deleted from public view). I imagine it's for these: "stop being a petty, sarcastic and snarky jerk" & "you're apparently too thick to read between the lines" Not exactly the nicest language or tone. And, for the record: "stop being a petty, sarcastic and snarky jerk" is NOWHERE in the post quoted in my ban notification. Admittedly, this may be just another sign of the general incompetence on display--whoever cut-'n-pasted it chopped off a portion of the posting...but, as it presently stands, said statement doesn't even exist. And yet, here you are posting it on another forum and attributing it to me... |
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Post by hardly on Jun 11, 2015 20:54:36 GMT
I wonder if people could be invited to rephrase their posts in some instances. The problem with deleting posts is it removes the evidence leaving only 22cans description and no context. It's a shame they can't send posts back to people for review so they are invisible until the offending statements are amended and the post resubmitted.
Mandrake I don't suppose you have a backup of the original post?
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Post by colin22cans on Jun 11, 2015 20:59:40 GMT
I've seen Paulusian's post (which has since been deleted from public view). I imagine it's for these: "stop being a petty, sarcastic and snarky jerk" & "you're apparently too thick to read between the lines" Not exactly the nicest language or tone. And, for the record: "stop being a petty, sarcastic and snarky jerk" is NOWHERE in the post quoted in my ban notification. Admittedly, this may be just another sign of the general incompetence on display--whoever cut-'n-pasted it chopped off a portion of the posting...but, as it presently stands, said statement doesn't even exist.And yet, here you are posting it on another forum and attributing it to me... So.. um.. this wasn't you?  The chances are the post in question was too long for the ban thread message detail. Steam has a set character limit per forum post and it was probably reached. |
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Post by colin22cans on Jun 11, 2015 21:06:14 GMT
I wonder if people could be invited to rephrase their posts in some instances. The problem with deleting posts is it removes the evidence leaving only 22cans description and no context. It's a shame they can't send posts back to people for review so they are invisible until the offending statements are amended and the post resubmitted. In this case, the post is only removed from public viewing. It still exists. Everyone has the chance to edit their posts, though if the content of the post is offensive or insulting towards a member of staff or the moderating team, there's a good chance it'll be removed. It's in no way about silencing opinions, it's about removing abusive language/insults which have no place on a public forum with a wide range of age groups. |
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Post by paulusian on Jun 11, 2015 21:25:09 GMT
And, for the record: "stop being a petty, sarcastic and snarky jerk" is NOWHERE in the post quoted in my ban notification. Admittedly, this may be just another sign of the general incompetence on display--whoever cut-'n-pasted it chopped off a portion of the posting...but, as it presently stands, said statement doesn't even exist.And yet, here you are posting it on another forum and attributing it to me... So.. um.. this wasn't you? The chances are the post in question was too long for the ban thread message detail. Steam has a set character limit per forum post and it was probably reached. "Admittedly, this may be just another sign of..." This is why it's not insulting to point out someone's lack of reading comprehension skills, sir. Quite frankly, I personally don't care about "chances" or "character limits," that's an issue YOU'RE responsible for, not me, and just a further proving of my point. I'm not demanding you recall--word for word--a post you made hours ago, while also having removed said post, thereby preventing any revisiting. I've also asked for an explanation as to how his post contributed ANYTHING to the conversation, and could be interpreted in any other way than, "petty, sarcastic, and snarky." My apologies, I stand corrected: I did, in fact, make that suggestion to Aynen, and stand by it. Just like I stand by my suggestion that the moderation of the Steam forums needs SERIOUS attention. You may find it acceptable to flit to a third-party forum--where I wasn't registered, mind you, and able to defend myself--to gossip and make baseless accusations by deliberately posting things out of context...I challenge you to find an ethical professional from ANY field that would agree with you. It's ASTOUNDING you would conduct yourselves in this manner and expect NOT to be spoken to in that tone. |
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 11, 2015 21:31:18 GMT
To be fair, 22cans did not make this thread. One of our non 22cans members did. Anyone can post whatever they chose (within reason)and in this case 22cans defended what they felt they should to the posters on this board who often use quotes from Steam. They do so because they are all also on Steam and we have very little censorship on here. We do list all devs, mods, and Admins from the gaming industry both present and former in other colors so that all members can distinguish them from non industry folk.
All are welcome here.
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 11, 2015 21:43:15 GMT
You know what? paulusian, I don't like 22Cans conduct. I don't like Aynen's stamp-printed answers. I don't like their bans without PMing/warning first. I absolutely hate the game presented as a God game and, what's worse, as a PC game. But her and now, the one in the wrong is you. There are rules on the forums, and you broke those rules yourself. Of course, you're both in the wrong, but that includes you. So your aggressiveness doesn't solve anything. By the way, I have the actual answer for the question in OP post, and I think I'll post it there. |
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Post by paulusian on Jun 11, 2015 21:44:42 GMT
Oh, I get that. I truly do.
That doesn't exempt any company representative from 22cans from conducting themselves in an adult and professional manner.
This is why I don't moderate forums any longer...I don't like being pseudo-forced to always take the high road. Sometimes the truth lies down the middle path, where things get bumpy and dirty, and I don't have a problem with that.
When you're moderating, you're wearing a different hat, though...or, at least, you should be. If someone's such a tender snowflake they're oblivious to the common knowledge that the internet is even lower than the bumpy, dirty middle path, and so hyper-sensitive they're rabidly searching for any perceived slight and creating one when they fail to find it legitimately, maybe they shouldn't be moderating an internet forum.
When someone's JOB--that my dollars, however inadvertently, contributed to the PAYCHECK they're earning--entails a certain commonly-accepted level of professional behavior chooses to conduct themselves like this, it actually IS enough to make someone angry.
They can post away here all they like--it's just plain disgusting they're doing it when they're ignoring the actual dispute "ticket" on the Steam forum between us while doing so.
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Post by colin22cans on Jun 11, 2015 21:51:08 GMT
This is why it's not insulting to point out someone's lack of reading comprehension skills, sir. Quite frankly, I personally don't care about "chances" or "character limits," that's an issue YOU'RE responsible for, not me, and just a further proving of my point. It is insulting and Steam's limitations are not 22cans' fault. I'm not demanding you recall--word for word--a post you made hours ago, while also having removed said post, thereby preventing any revisiting. The offending post can still be seen by developers, moderators and administrators. I stand corrected: I did, in fact, make that suggestion to Aynen, and stand by it. Looks like you admitted posting an abusive message. We won't allow abusive or insulting behaviour. You may find it acceptable to flit to a third-party forum--where I wasn't registered, mind you, and able to defend myself--to gossip and make baseless accusations by deliberately posting things out of context...I challenge you to find an ethical professional from ANY field that would agree with you. A member of the Godus community asked a question and we answered. You may not have been registered at that time, but you were posting. And in fairness - I personally posted in your open board thread. There's been no gossip, no accusations, and no posting things out of context. I can post the entire offending message here if you'd like but I think that would probably be a step too far. I'd rather not have to name and shame. It's ASTOUNDING you would conduct yourselves in this manner and expect NOT to be spoken to in that tone. Heh. |
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Post by paulusian on Jun 11, 2015 21:57:42 GMT
You know what? paulusian, I don't like 22Cans conduct. I don't like Aynen's stamp-printed answers. I don't like their bans without PMing/warning first. I absolutely hate the game presented as a God game and, what's worse, as a PC game. But her and now, the one in the wrong is you. There are rules on the forums, and you broke those rules yourself. Of course, you're both in the wrong, but that includes you. So your aggressiveness doesn't solve anything. By the way, I have the actual answer for the question in OP post, and I think I'll post it there. Except I didn't break any rules...and I'm not sure defending oneself or pointing out disgustingly unprofessional conduct is "aggressive." Pointing out that a flippant response from a moderator--which did nothing to answer any questions posed in the discussion and added nothing to it--is insulting and offensive isn't "aggressive," nor is it a violation of any rules. Pointing out the willfully entertained logical fallacies of said flippant response is not a violation of any rules, nor is it "aggressive." Me harping on it here could most definitely be interpreted as aggressive; however, as I said above, I wasn't angry before--after this atrocious display, I'm kind of starting to get there. Please, forgive me if my rising anger has led to some "aggressiveness," and I'm not being sarcastic there.  |
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Post by hardly on Jun 11, 2015 22:19:02 GMT
You need to start from the point of view that making statements about the person rather than their argument is poor form. You should be willing to renounce those statements while still criticising the individuals actions. Aynen is not a jerk, in fact I believe he's probably quite a helpful and well meaning person. At the same time I think he has at times shown poor judgement (as we all do). I don't think it's helpful that 22cans have created a vacuum (although it's got a little less vacuumey of late) and Aynen feels at times he has to try and fill it which leads to some subjective information and some very frustrating exchanges. I've suggested that him and Muir avoid providing their take on events since this can be construed as official information and they often give an outlook without providing facts (because of NDA) to support that outlook.
I have sympathy because I was in a similar but different situation with deleted posts. You have to start with rephrasing your words because if your sentence includes the word jerk your not going to be able to argue it's not intended to insult. Personally I think you should be allowed to reframe your statement and continue on but you are going to have to renounce your original words to do that. That doesn't mean you cant explain why what he did/said really annoys you, just don't jump to saying "stop being a dick" as a summary of where you think he went wrong.
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 11, 2015 22:20:53 GMT
You know what? paulusian, I don't like 22Cans conduct. I don't like Aynen's stamp-printed answers. I don't like their bans without PMing/warning first. I absolutely hate the game presented as a God game and, what's worse, as a PC game. But her and now, the one in the wrong is you. There are rules on the forums, and you broke those rules yourself. Of course, you're both in the wrong, but that includes you. So your aggressiveness doesn't solve anything. By the way, I have the actual answer for the question in OP post, and I think I'll post it there. Except I didn't break any rules...and I'm not sure defending oneself or pointing out disgustingly unprofessional conduct is "aggressive." Pointing out that a flippant response from a moderator--which did nothing to answer any questions posed in the discussion and added nothing to it--is insulting and offensive isn't "aggressive," nor is it a violation of any rules. Pointing out the willfully entertained logical fallacies of said flippant response is not a violation of any rules, nor is it "aggressive." Me harping on it here could most definitely be interpreted as aggressive; however, as I said above, I wasn't angry before--after this atrocious display, I'm kind of starting to get there. Please, forgive me if my rising anger has led to some "aggressiveness," and I'm not being sarcastic there. Is aggressive and offensive. I think (my opinion, of course, does not mean it's true) you cold have rephrased it to keep more neutral. Especially that having the phrase constructed this way won't get you some answers, it wil just increase the animosity and nothing else (not your fault, humans are constructed to not accept harsh, emotional criticism from strangers, taking it as a threat). Unless you have a soldering iron up the ass of the guy you're directing the phrase, of course. Sadly, not everything is possible over the internet. |
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