Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 2:35:47 GMT
Back here again, now with how simon22cans has taken the first step in 22cans' customer antagonisation game through non-answers, passing the buck, and good ol' "We hope you'll like the game in the future! It'll be GREAT!":
steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618463738392036805/
A community alternatively abandoned and abused gets more form answers and flippancy. Community discusses the state of the game, and how it's...lacking.
To which, Simon takes a moment to completely take a reply out of context, to call the citing of the shite gameplay of drawn-out garbage timers in Godus (still existing even in the PC version to some extent) as to where someone was in the game as "opinion" - and then goes out of his way to point out that at least 22cans can identify an unhappy customer even if they won't lift arse to do anything about the situation they have on the only digital distribution point for their game.
Mewtsuh: +strolls in+ I love this game. I've played it for 12 hours and havent hit any walls, and have pleanty of resources. Don't know what yall'r gripin about. XD
TigrisMorte: 12 hours, yeah thats about 3 becons. Wait for two more and the 12 hour for the beacon to complete with full worker then get back to us, K?
Simon: That's the beautiful thing about opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own.
TigrisMorte: Please quote which part of my comment was opinion.
Simon: Your opinion was implied and that's fine. You don't like it, I get it, we all get it.
Simon scores on own goal with cheeky nutmeg to show butthurt that folks don't like the game - when the actual point was that someone might possibly like the game up until they've actually seen the repetitive, cow-clicker gameplay, which is not opinion at all. That Simon tries to paint it as such is poor form and complete dishonesty about the game's design/state.
Y'know, instead of the more obviously helpful tactic of trying to steer the conversation into what folks found bad, and what they might have liked, to better offer discussion about the game itself...nah, let's go for something that looks like 22cans doesn't give a damn about the customers who feel slighted by the company and those involved.
Let's also look like a cheeky arse about it, too:
----
In the same thread, totallyTim brings up how the state of Godus had made the recent Steam refund policy invalid, and asks for how 22cans could feel honest in doing what they have done.
"People are also entitled to refunds if they're dissatisfied with the provided product or service. Can you acknowledge that aswell?
Steam says I played 14h of this game and I last installed it when some of the timers were literally 2 weeks long, so you can probably imagine how much of that was actually spent playing. After the last dev update I have zero interest in this "game" what so ever, because it is not even close to what was advertised.
How can you justify taking money from people and only leaving them with a sour aftertaste in their mouth?
Basted on your 'snarky' comment it seems like most people enjoy this game so I'm obviously part of a small minority. What's the harm in offering a refund to someone who wouldn't even consider buying the game if there was a free demo available."
So what does Simon decide to do? Post some utter nonsense dodge behind Steam policy and Early Access. Then tries to say that he's not being snarky.
"Steams refund policy is available for all to look at and consumers are welcome to come along and check out the overall opinion of the game (just like this thread) and make up their own minds about whether or not to get involved with the risks and rewards of an early access game."
Might I take a moment here to point out that several of the updated rules in the Steam Early Access Rules could quite apply to Godus' development, as if they were in part inspired by it?
It might not be too bright of an idea to keep passing the buck to VALVe - 22cans can be arsed to act on their own and can start working on better company policies than hiding behind another company's caveats as an answer for their own company's abuses and dreadful customer service.
Psychonaut23: "You clearly do not get it at all. Some of us bought into the early access and expected to get what we were told we would get. I have no intention now of ever playing this game should it ever materialise. The stats tell me I have played 140 or so hours...I can tell you that is rubbish. It can rot. All I want is my refund and none of your platitudes
Kindly point to any reward of this Early Access game. Anyone with a semblance of wit could have a look and see the absolute fiasco it has been and continues to be."
(On that note, I think there was a relatively recent Steam Early Access Rule change about "set expectations properly" or something of that sort.)
Simon: (Quoting: "Anyone with a semblance of wit could have a look and see the absolute fiasco it has been and continues to be.") "Then all is well..."
Mindless: "I did used to have a thread up asking if folks would go away if they got their refunds, many guys said they would leave, and say no more about the game if a refund was forthcomming (unfortunatly the thread got deleted by a moderator)
I still can't understand why they dont just offer out refunds to upset customers, it would solve so many problems for them, yet they still choose to hold onto the cash, even after saying that they are earning 10's of millions from the game already (Molys own words). They can't be hurting for cash that bad that they can't refund some of you guys.
If I didn't know any better (and I don't) one might conclude that their holding the refunds back is a deliberate action used to antagonise some of the comunity for petty reasons.
Every chance they have to show a good will gesture is always wasted."
Simon: "Hi Mindless, I hope you're well?
Of course, we don't want to do anything to deliberately antagonise anyone, we, like you, actually just want to make a great a game and this is purely the motivation behind us continuing to push resource into developing the product.
I don't want to get into a big debate about refunds as there are now clear policies from Steam that deal with it as there are guidelines about early access and what the risks are about getting involved with such a product. Of course, its disappointing that parts of the PC community are dissatisfied with where Godus is and we (and I) genuinely hope that there is some enjoyment to be had in the new features and modes that will roll out over time. Right now, yes it, by and large, is what is it and we can all fight and squabble about various aspects of it all until we're blue in the face but its not going to change anything. What we (22cans) can do though is give the community good solid updates with clear, realistic information and progress and ultimately playable builds that reflect that. Hopefully you can see that this starting to happen."
What is this bullshit? First, throws Steam's refund policy in as an excuse (when previously, 22cans' company policy was "contact Steam Support"), then the risks about Early Access and "such a product" and then some waffle about "Check out our updates!" The worst part is how Simon brushes aside the important points to declare that discussion with 22cans is pointless because all 22cans can do is...just post about updates?
Then follows it up with another insistence upon clapping for Tinkerbell.
Simon, this is what I was talking to you about 22cans having to need more than pulling Combat and "hopefully in the future" out of their collective backsides as a go-to answer - the rest of the game has clearly gone into some dev hell with paywalls and cow-clicking.
22cans can be arsed to fix their own fuck-ups without dodging, without blaming others, without doing anything but work on what they ruined (as admitted through Peter's mea culpas), so...when it comes to an issue about 22cans' customer policy - pardon me for being blunt about this - SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT STEAM POLICY.
This is the kind of wankery that leads to customers to taking personal attacks at 22cans, to tell 22cans what they think of a company that obviously thinks little of their own community to come up with half of these shite answers.
Again, back to that plot, people DID buy something that looked a bit promising as bait to buy the "current state of the game" - then over a year ago 22cans switched that into a cow-clicker. This includes the "screenshots" in the Steam store that DO NOT accurately represent the state of the game.
Then you continue to antagonise Psychonaut23 and others with the clearly rubbish evasion behind Steam's policies.
Usually, folks buy games to have fun. When they are not having fun...why are you stubbornly insisting upon collecting them? Another social experiment? If not, then 22cans needs to have a good sit and think about how they're doing it wrong if they expect repeat customers or for any kind of favourable word-of-mouth.
If you expect people to really take you at your word, that you're going to have some "great game" then you can show them that YOU can believe such a leap of faith. You should have no problem offering refunds, based upon that if the game will become better then folks might see reason to buy it again.
Right now, they're expected to pay for an unfinished mobile port that is designed around paywalls and cow-clicking.
If you could honestly say that you have faith in your product and company, and expect others to do the same, allow me to help you by pointing out that you can start by giving people a reason to. No more buck-passing onto Steam. No more marginalising customers. No more antagonising customers through shit policy.
The Steam forum is at a state that if it weren't for folks discussing how much they want a refund then you'd probably not have much if any discussion on a forum with millions of users readily able to post upon it. Does 22cans care to fix that or look completely out of touch with the plot and their own community?
steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/618463738392036805/
A community alternatively abandoned and abused gets more form answers and flippancy. Community discusses the state of the game, and how it's...lacking.
To which, Simon takes a moment to completely take a reply out of context, to call the citing of the shite gameplay of drawn-out garbage timers in Godus (still existing even in the PC version to some extent) as to where someone was in the game as "opinion" - and then goes out of his way to point out that at least 22cans can identify an unhappy customer even if they won't lift arse to do anything about the situation they have on the only digital distribution point for their game.
Mewtsuh: +strolls in+ I love this game. I've played it for 12 hours and havent hit any walls, and have pleanty of resources. Don't know what yall'r gripin about. XD
TigrisMorte: 12 hours, yeah thats about 3 becons. Wait for two more and the 12 hour for the beacon to complete with full worker then get back to us, K?
Simon: That's the beautiful thing about opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own.
TigrisMorte: Please quote which part of my comment was opinion.
Simon: Your opinion was implied and that's fine. You don't like it, I get it, we all get it.
Simon scores on own goal with cheeky nutmeg to show butthurt that folks don't like the game - when the actual point was that someone might possibly like the game up until they've actually seen the repetitive, cow-clicker gameplay, which is not opinion at all. That Simon tries to paint it as such is poor form and complete dishonesty about the game's design/state.
Y'know, instead of the more obviously helpful tactic of trying to steer the conversation into what folks found bad, and what they might have liked, to better offer discussion about the game itself...nah, let's go for something that looks like 22cans doesn't give a damn about the customers who feel slighted by the company and those involved.
Let's also look like a cheeky arse about it, too:
----
In the same thread, totallyTim brings up how the state of Godus had made the recent Steam refund policy invalid, and asks for how 22cans could feel honest in doing what they have done.
"People are also entitled to refunds if they're dissatisfied with the provided product or service. Can you acknowledge that aswell?
Steam says I played 14h of this game and I last installed it when some of the timers were literally 2 weeks long, so you can probably imagine how much of that was actually spent playing. After the last dev update I have zero interest in this "game" what so ever, because it is not even close to what was advertised.
How can you justify taking money from people and only leaving them with a sour aftertaste in their mouth?
Basted on your 'snarky' comment it seems like most people enjoy this game so I'm obviously part of a small minority. What's the harm in offering a refund to someone who wouldn't even consider buying the game if there was a free demo available."
So what does Simon decide to do? Post some utter nonsense dodge behind Steam policy and Early Access. Then tries to say that he's not being snarky.
"Steams refund policy is available for all to look at and consumers are welcome to come along and check out the overall opinion of the game (just like this thread) and make up their own minds about whether or not to get involved with the risks and rewards of an early access game."
Might I take a moment here to point out that several of the updated rules in the Steam Early Access Rules could quite apply to Godus' development, as if they were in part inspired by it?
It might not be too bright of an idea to keep passing the buck to VALVe - 22cans can be arsed to act on their own and can start working on better company policies than hiding behind another company's caveats as an answer for their own company's abuses and dreadful customer service.
Psychonaut23: "You clearly do not get it at all. Some of us bought into the early access and expected to get what we were told we would get. I have no intention now of ever playing this game should it ever materialise. The stats tell me I have played 140 or so hours...I can tell you that is rubbish. It can rot. All I want is my refund and none of your platitudes
Kindly point to any reward of this Early Access game. Anyone with a semblance of wit could have a look and see the absolute fiasco it has been and continues to be."
(On that note, I think there was a relatively recent Steam Early Access Rule change about "set expectations properly" or something of that sort.)
Simon: (Quoting: "Anyone with a semblance of wit could have a look and see the absolute fiasco it has been and continues to be.") "Then all is well..."
Mindless: "I did used to have a thread up asking if folks would go away if they got their refunds, many guys said they would leave, and say no more about the game if a refund was forthcomming (unfortunatly the thread got deleted by a moderator)
I still can't understand why they dont just offer out refunds to upset customers, it would solve so many problems for them, yet they still choose to hold onto the cash, even after saying that they are earning 10's of millions from the game already (Molys own words). They can't be hurting for cash that bad that they can't refund some of you guys.
If I didn't know any better (and I don't) one might conclude that their holding the refunds back is a deliberate action used to antagonise some of the comunity for petty reasons.
Every chance they have to show a good will gesture is always wasted."
Simon: "Hi Mindless, I hope you're well?
Of course, we don't want to do anything to deliberately antagonise anyone, we, like you, actually just want to make a great a game and this is purely the motivation behind us continuing to push resource into developing the product.
I don't want to get into a big debate about refunds as there are now clear policies from Steam that deal with it as there are guidelines about early access and what the risks are about getting involved with such a product. Of course, its disappointing that parts of the PC community are dissatisfied with where Godus is and we (and I) genuinely hope that there is some enjoyment to be had in the new features and modes that will roll out over time. Right now, yes it, by and large, is what is it and we can all fight and squabble about various aspects of it all until we're blue in the face but its not going to change anything. What we (22cans) can do though is give the community good solid updates with clear, realistic information and progress and ultimately playable builds that reflect that. Hopefully you can see that this starting to happen."
What is this bullshit? First, throws Steam's refund policy in as an excuse (when previously, 22cans' company policy was "contact Steam Support"), then the risks about Early Access and "such a product" and then some waffle about "Check out our updates!" The worst part is how Simon brushes aside the important points to declare that discussion with 22cans is pointless because all 22cans can do is...just post about updates?
Then follows it up with another insistence upon clapping for Tinkerbell.
Simon, this is what I was talking to you about 22cans having to need more than pulling Combat and "hopefully in the future" out of their collective backsides as a go-to answer - the rest of the game has clearly gone into some dev hell with paywalls and cow-clicking.
22cans can be arsed to fix their own fuck-ups without dodging, without blaming others, without doing anything but work on what they ruined (as admitted through Peter's mea culpas), so...when it comes to an issue about 22cans' customer policy - pardon me for being blunt about this - SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT STEAM POLICY.
This is the kind of wankery that leads to customers to taking personal attacks at 22cans, to tell 22cans what they think of a company that obviously thinks little of their own community to come up with half of these shite answers.
Again, back to that plot, people DID buy something that looked a bit promising as bait to buy the "current state of the game" - then over a year ago 22cans switched that into a cow-clicker. This includes the "screenshots" in the Steam store that DO NOT accurately represent the state of the game.
Then you continue to antagonise Psychonaut23 and others with the clearly rubbish evasion behind Steam's policies.
Usually, folks buy games to have fun. When they are not having fun...why are you stubbornly insisting upon collecting them? Another social experiment? If not, then 22cans needs to have a good sit and think about how they're doing it wrong if they expect repeat customers or for any kind of favourable word-of-mouth.
If you expect people to really take you at your word, that you're going to have some "great game" then you can show them that YOU can believe such a leap of faith. You should have no problem offering refunds, based upon that if the game will become better then folks might see reason to buy it again.
Right now, they're expected to pay for an unfinished mobile port that is designed around paywalls and cow-clicking.
If you could honestly say that you have faith in your product and company, and expect others to do the same, allow me to help you by pointing out that you can start by giving people a reason to. No more buck-passing onto Steam. No more marginalising customers. No more antagonising customers through shit policy.
The Steam forum is at a state that if it weren't for folks discussing how much they want a refund then you'd probably not have much if any discussion on a forum with millions of users readily able to post upon it. Does 22cans care to fix that or look completely out of touch with the plot and their own community?
