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Post by hardly on May 13, 2015 22:24:36 GMT
I think the safest way to really look at any of this is to look at the basic broad strokes of how 22cans has been doing anything. All of their efforts so far convey a mismanaged mess of a development studio that chews up personnel and spits them out frustrated, tired, and a little more jaded or cynical. The only way it's managed to retain any of its personnel whatsoever was probably to reorganize and regroup, but that was too little too late for those that had signed on for the initial project(s) of Curiosity and/or Godus. Curiosity was a bumbling aimless mess that apparently taught them nothing of how to handle a mobile game. Godus was a slightly less bumbling mess that at least put on airs of being a game that failed to draw in the Curiosity crowd due to its prolonged development (and the mobile audience's absence of brand recognition/loyalty) and failed to establish a longstanding community due to 22cans' failure to learn anything about how mobile and PC audiences differ and can't be treated the same. Even with some of the staff's experience in the industry, they appear to have learned nothing of what their previous audiences were interested in, and as newcomers to mobile, it's little wonder they failed to capture that audience's attention for very long... Everything 22cans has done so far has been an utter failure, not due to any sort of malevolence, but to sheer incompetence and ignorance. Some of the staff may be wise to what some of these audiences are interested in, but none of that can stand up to a stubborn company culture that won't listen or discuss matters and insists on dedication to a vague vision. Even though 22cans actions have been 80% bumbling I think there is still a strong flavour of malevolence from the leadership. They shamelessly chased the mobile buck and later dumped godus in favour of betrayal that stinks of malevolence to me. In terms of staff being chewed up and spit out I think more would have left if not for the scarcity of goodjobs in this sector. I also think most people as optimistic and people like Konrad desperately want to rescue godus. The problem is they are unsupported in this endeavour. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on May 14, 2015 0:38:36 GMT
Gmr Leon Avatar May 13, 2015 16:44:23 GMT -5 Gmr Leon said: I think the safest way to really look at any of this is to look at the basic broad strokes of how 22cans has been doing anything. All of their efforts so far convey a mismanaged mess of a development studio that chews up personnel and spits them out frustrated, tired, and a little more jaded or cynical. The only way it's managed to retain any of its personnel whatsoever was probably to reorganize and regroup, but that was too little too late for those that had signed on for the initial project(s) of Curiosity and/or Godus. Curiosity was a bumbling aimless mess that apparently taught them nothing of how to handle a mobile game. Godus was a slightly less bumbling mess that at least put on airs of being a game that failed to draw in the Curiosity crowd due to its prolonged development (and the mobile audience's absence of brand recognition/loyalty) and failed to establish a longstanding community due to 22cans' failure to learn anything about how mobile and PC audiences differ and can't be treated the same. Even with some of the staff's experience in the industry, they appear to have learned nothing of what their previous audiences were interested in, and as newcomers to mobile, it's little wonder they failed to capture that audience's attention for very long... Everything 22cans has done so far has been an utter failure, not due to any sort of malevolence, but to sheer incompetence and ignorance. Some of the staff may be wise to what some of these audiences are interested in, but none of that can stand up to a stubborn company culture that won't listen or discuss matters and insists on dedication to a vague vision. You nailed that right on the head. The whole bloody thing has been one giant festering boil of a cock-up from the moment Peter said, "I have an idea!". Even though 22cans actions have been 80% bumbling I think there is still a strong flavour of malevolence from the leadership. They shamelessly chased the mobile buck and later dumped godus in favour of betrayal that stinks of malevolence to me. In terms of staff being chewed up and spit out I think more would have left if not for the scarcity of goodjobs in this sector. I also think most people as optimistic and people like Konrad desperately want to rescue godus. The problem is they are unsupported in this endeavour. Honestly, I'm sorry to say, but trying to save this game is comparable to rescuing drowning kittens wrapped in a lead-weighted sack by jumping head first into the well while piss drunk and wearing a fat suit; it's not even going to have the slightest bit of a happy outcome no matter how much effort is applied. |
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Post by earlparvisjam on May 14, 2015 1:31:27 GMT
I think I have to be the poop in the punch bowl on this. I think singling out Konrad out is not only justified but necessary. Back in January, while we were reeling from the mass exodus of people from the project, he swooped in and set himself up with his "one of us" stance and made a number of promises about what would be happening. I refused to put on the rose tinted glasses and people gave me a hard time, even though this is the exact same crap we've had over and over (Matthew is going to change things, George is going to make it better, etc.). "Give him a chance" was the mantra back then, even though he was perpetuating the same crap as his predecessor. Was he looking into what we've been complaining about since day one? No. Was he actually listening to what we were recommending? No. All he did was come in, make a handful of recommendation threads that were guaranteed to produce nothing for him, promise things would be different, and vanish when the press started hounding 22Cans. I didn't have a lot of time for Matthew, but George made it pretty clear that he was being royally screwed over by management by the time he left. He had genuinely good intentions, and had previously been a successful community manager for other projects, so while 22Cans can be faulted for letting him believe that he'd have to power to improve things (his feedback would be taken on board, he would be kept in the loop with new developments, etc.) I see no reason to vilify him for his inability to deliver. He tried his best in a bad situation and ultimately left the project because it was a lost cause. It wasn't the outcome anyone had wanted, including him. I think everyone had a healthy degree of skepticism when Konrad came on board, but he was honest about his intentions and the possible limitations that he'd be up against (I don't remember him promising anything concrete it turns of what he'd be able to achieve, just that he was going to try and he was making a good-faith effort at gathering community feedback). He was naive but he was trying, and he probably hadn't foreseen the extent of the barriers to actually getting Godus into a decent place. As for vanishing when the press kicked off - do you believe had any choice in the matter? That's not a hypothetical question. We never got an answer either way about whether he'd been explicitly told not to engage with us anymore or if he'd made that decision himself. Maybe, but I don't think he can be blamed for wanting to try. He wouldn't be the first person to be sucked in by Peter's lies. We all bought this damned piece of shit, didn't we. Konrad IS 22Cans now? Peter Molyneux is 22Cans. Konrad is a minion. Probably needing to pay his rent just like everyone else, so I don't think we can judge him for not doing what we perceive to be the 'right' thing and quit his job out of principle. Also, don't take the defense of Konrad as being confidence that he's working with a skilled team of experienced programmers and is going to deliver. That is blatently not the case. I can't see that anyone here is walking on eggshells in any way. That is not something this community has done in quite some time. He has been used to do all of these things, but I do not believe that personally calling him out and holding him accountable is fair. He was set up to fail and take the blame, and in that capacity he has apparently succeeded, which is a real shame. I really enjoy reading your posts and respect your views but I'm sad that you're jumping on this particular bandwagon. Konrad is a decent guy. He involvement had highlighted the awfulness of 22Cans but not contributed to it. I am not jumping on a bandwagon. I AM the bandwagon. I've been critical of this whole situation since Konrad showed up. He claimed he wanted to fix the pc version and make it what it needs to be but had no plans or idea how he was going to fix the fundamental flaws we've been on about since getting our first builds. On top of that, he came on here and stiff-armed the combat feature through all discussion and pretty much guaranteed a continuation of what we've been dealing with since day one. Sure, he talked the "one of us" talk but that's all it ever was. Konrad didn't just show up at 22Cans' doorstep in January. He's a backer that showed up, worked for free for a full year, and was finally put on the payroll. If everyone's yelling not to run through a minefield, I'm not about to give him a pass when he blows his legs off just because he claims he's there to clear out the mines. In six months, not only has he failed to disarm any of the "mines", but he's decided to plant an herb garden, surrounded by a little white picket fence with a little path between the shrubberies. At this point, I'm doubting that PM is still at 22Cans. He's certainly not taking an active roll with Godus and nobody's heard a peep about "The Trails". Heck, I'm not even sure who's left working on that new project any more. For that matter, wasn't there supposed to be a ramping up of new hires for Godus back in Feb-March? Perhaps I'd been feeling overly optimistic but I thought there was some claim that they were bringing people onboard. At this point, I half expect someone to show up at the office on a whim and find it's been turned into a McDonald's... |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 1:55:14 GMT
Wouldn't it be incredible... if PM left 22cans to start a new IP with Jack, with Jack at the helm?.. rebrand, renew, and try to shed the awful stain he's left on himself throughout this ridiculous Godus saga?
That would be something.
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Post by mindless on May 14, 2015 2:11:22 GMT
My opinion of Konrad is that he is someone who knows the type of game he wants Godus to be, and if he was provided with the proper support he would have had a real chance of producing something that the community would have enjoyed, or at least gave us a real chance of being able to help shape its development.
However its obvious that upper management is directly working against him at each and every opportunity. We know the game needs significant resources to be completed, so they get taken away. We know they need to remain focused on one game, so a new game is created. We know that employing people with experience in the industry is essential, so moly explicitly looks for people without experience. We know that people who have been working on a project for years understand what needs to be done, so they all get moved away, so that new hires without previous experience can take over. We try to communicate with the staff, so they are all ordered to be silent. Everyone backed PC so they focus on mobile, We ask for updates they are silenced with NDA's. We turn to the official forums to air out complaints, they fall on deaf ears, and many of us are mistreated/banned by incompetent/malevolent moderators who are actively trying to stifle honest debate through censorship and obfuscation. I could carry on, and on, but I think you get my point.
Everytime someone suggests or identifies something that has potential to improve the game they literally do the exact opposite. Its Moly's Law in full effect "If you can do something wrong, then you should do it wrong"
I don't blame Konrad for any of this, I get the impression that his heart is in the right place, but that he just seams naive, and his inexperience is positioning him into an easy to manipulate fall guy by an admitted & experienced con artist (for proof just look into how Moly got into the industry through deception and theft of property)
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Post by hardly on May 14, 2015 3:29:52 GMT
Wouldn't it be incredible... if PM left 22cans to start a new IP with Jack, with Jack at the helm?.. rebrand, renew, and try to shed the awful stain he's left on himself throughout this ridiculous Godus saga? That would be something. It would be but reading between the lines I think Jack has lost faith in Peter like everybody else. He strongly implied peter mislead him about his role at 22cans and the creative control/autonomy he'd have. Tom Rance is a much more likely candidate. I definitely think there is a connection because he seems to have spent the last few months working on his new game despite still supposedly working for 22cans. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on May 14, 2015 4:10:16 GMT
My opinion of Konrad is that he is someone who knows the type of game he wants Godus to be, and if he was provided with the proper support he would have had a real chance of producing something that the community would have enjoyed, or at least gave us a real chance of being able to help shape its development. However its obvious that upper management is directly working against him at each and every opportunity. We know the game needs significant resources to be completed, so they get taken away. We know they need to remain focused on one game, so a new game is created. We know that employing people with experience in the industry is essential, so moly explicitly looks for people without experience. We know that people who have been working on a project for years understand what needs to be done, so they all get moved away, so that new hires without previous experience can take over. We try to communicate with the staff, so they are all ordered to be silent. Everyone backed PC so they focus on mobile, We ask for updates they are silenced with NDA's. We turn to the official forums to air out complaints, they fall on deaf ears, and many of us are mistreated/banned by incompetent/malevolent moderators who are actively trying to stifle honest debate through censorship and obfuscation. I could carry on, and on, but I think you get my point. Everytime someone suggests or identifies something that has potential to improve the game they literally do the exact opposite. Its Moly's Law in full effect "If you can do something wrong, then you should do it wrong"I don't blame Konrad for any of this, I get the impression that his heart is in the right place, but that he just seams naive, and his inexperience is positioning him into an easy to manipulate fall guy by an admitted & experienced con artist ( for proof just look into how Moly got into the industry through deception and theft of property) This is the best. Whatever we want to call them, the most basic truth we've seen is that they're always willing to do the polar opposite of what we or maybe anyone thinks is wise. It's the stubborn guy that won't ask for directions and steers everyone right off a cliff or into a horror story setting. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 4:19:02 GMT
This is the best. Whatever we want to call them, the most basic truth we've seen is that they're always willing to do the polar opposite of what we or maybe anyone thinks is wise. It's the stubborn guy that won't ask for directions and steers everyone right off a cliff or into a horror story setting. 22cans is more like the fellow who, after having survived an idiotic leap off of a cliff onto rocks for a bit of a stay in the hospital from their injuries, immediately finds every cliff they can find to keep doing the same thing repeatedly. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on May 15, 2015 2:48:02 GMT
This is the best. Whatever we want to call them, the most basic truth we've seen is that they're always willing to do the polar opposite of what we or maybe anyone thinks is wise. It's the stubborn guy that won't ask for directions and steers everyone right off a cliff or into a horror story setting. 22cans is more like the fellow who, after having survived an idiotic leap off of a cliff onto rocks for a bit of a stay in the hospital from their injuries, immediately finds every cliff they can find to keep doing the same thing repeatedly. Sounds like the US Government. |
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Post by mindless on May 15, 2015 4:06:24 GMT
... and many of us are mistreated/banned by incompetent/malevolent moderators who are actively trying to stifle honest debate through censorship and obfuscation. , I had no idea how accurate and predictive of future activity this statement would actually turn out to have been. |
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Post by hardly on May 15, 2015 4:08:21 GMT
... and many of us are mistreated/banned by incompetent/malevolent moderators who are actively trying to stifle honest debate through censorship and obfuscation. , I had no idea how accurate and predictive of future activity this statement would actually turn out to have been. Obviously they read your comment and thought "we can do better". |
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