andy22cans
Suspected 22Cans staff
Posts: 15 
I like: Gifs,
Making sure things are being done,
When our community are happy.
I don't like: That developer commentary...
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Post by andy22cans on Jun 10, 2015 13:21:35 GMT
They are not able to tell us their vision for Godus - there has to be a goal you want to reach in every project (even in a game project). The Point is they never told us before Konrad took over and they can't tell us now. This could mean 1. They have no Vision/Goal (will not work - my opinion) 2. They have one but can't tell us because it's not something we want to hear (for example - make some Kickstarter rewards and spacebase) I think it's 2. - maybe that's the reason why Konrad isn't allowed to talk about the game anymore. This is most likely it. Without a core design vision, of what game they want to make, then they ARE effectively just sitting there working on Combat for show, as unless you have a final goal in mind "iterative design" just means you're repeating a lot of work to revise aimless into still aimless - until you have the software equivalent of the Winchester Mystery House. We have a pretty solid design we're working on for Combat, the first part of which is described in the latest Steam announcement. As we go on we'll be sharing more and more of the design to get your feedback. This thread is full of awesome ideas, and it's something that we're all looking at. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jun 10, 2015 14:07:13 GMT
What totallytim said is the point. We don't know what they have planned to do with the game. Ok, they told us about combat and a few other things - but what should the game look like when it's done. My expectations are very low and i don't see it ending in a state i want it to play. A bit of combat or some new Ages won't change anything. Another point is that Peter said in one of his last interviews that the game will be done in six month, that's almost six month ago now. I don't see them do a game in the next 6 years with this speed. They are not able to tell us their vision for Godus - there has to be a goal you want to reach in every project (even in a game project). The Point is they never told us before Konrad took over and they can't tell us now. This could mean 1. They have no Vision/Goal (will not work - my opinion) 2. They have one but can't tell us because it's not something we want to hear (for example - make some Kickstarter rewards and spacebase) I think it's 2. - maybe that's the reason why Konrad isn't allowed to talk about the game anymore. My Suggestion for improving the community relationship is: Refund everyone from Kickstarter and SEA. I don't think it's profitable to have three, four or five devs work on a game that will not bring any further money in a few month. I don't think Godus makes a lot of money on PC right now and i don't expect combat to change this. They have no plans/clue how to integrate combat in mobile (like they said). So better take the devs and do the mobile version instead of PC that will bring in more money. Doing both will not work with a four or five dev team (at least if it should be a good pc game). Or take the whole team and put them on the trail. But refund us now and don't try to put us off with some loveless rewards and a spacebased slightly changed mobile game. From the perspective of business, this holds merit. Sometimes, in the long-term big picture business wise, it's better to recognize when it's more cost effective to cut the card on a project and take the losses, so you can focus all your manpower and finance on a less risky venture. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 14:52:09 GMT
What totallytim said is the point. We don't know what they have planned to do with the game. Ok, they told us about combat and a few other things - but what should the game look like when it's done. My expectations are very low and i don't see it ending in a state i want it to play. A bit of combat or some new Ages won't change anything. Another point is that Peter said in one of his last interviews that the game will be done in six month, that's almost six month ago now. I don't see them do a game in the next 6 years with this speed. They are not able to tell us their vision for Godus - there has to be a goal you want to reach in every project (even in a game project). The Point is they never told us before Konrad took over and they can't tell us now. This could mean 1. They have no Vision/Goal (will not work - my opinion) 2. They have one but can't tell us because it's not something we want to hear (for example - make some Kickstarter rewards and spacebase) I think it's 2. - maybe that's the reason why Konrad isn't allowed to talk about the game anymore. My Suggestion for improving the community relationship is: Refund everyone from Kickstarter and SEA. I don't think it's profitable to have three, four or five devs work on a game that will not bring any further money in a few month. I don't think Godus makes a lot of money on PC right now and i don't expect combat to change this. They have no plans/clue how to integrate combat in mobile (like they said). So better take the devs and do the mobile version instead of PC that will bring in more money. Doing both will not work with a four or five dev team (at least if it should be a good pc game). Or take the whole team and put them on the trail. But refund us now and don't try to put us off with some loveless rewards and a spacebased slightly changed mobile game. From the perspective of business, this holds merit. Sometimes, in the long-term big picture business wise, it's better to recognize when it's more cost effective to cut the card on a project and take the losses, so you can focus all your manpower and finance on a less risky venture.
I don't think there is any perspective that justifies the ongoing development of Godus (PC).
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Post by Gmr Leon on Jun 10, 2015 18:18:35 GMT
This is most likely it. Without a core design vision, of what game they want to make, then they ARE effectively just sitting there working on Combat for show, as unless you have a final goal in mind "iterative design" just means you're repeating a lot of work to revise aimless into still aimless - until you have the software equivalent of the Winchester Mystery House. We have a pretty solid design we're working on for Combat, the first part of which is described in the latest Steam announcement. As we go on we'll be sharing more and more of the design to get your feedback. This thread is full of awesome ideas, and it's something that we're all looking at. This may be a little pedantic, but you're not missing that we're talking broader/long term design/vision, right? You guys generally have had working designs for smaller features, I don't think anyone would contest that, however it's that none of these seem to feed into anything outside of themselves that's presented an enduring problem. I also don't imagine I have to make any analogies to drive this point home. All we know, and maybe this is why this seems to elude 22cans, is that this is supposed to be some sort of god game...And a redefinition or "regenesis" of that concept, but at every turn there has been no coherent explanation of what this would be. Is it supposed to eventually be like its predecessors only with ages, commandments, and some other stuff? Well, that would be alright, but where's all of that? Was it scrapped? Okay, so now what's the plan? Is it just to be a more stylized shallow Populous? |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jun 10, 2015 18:37:35 GMT
Is it a combat RTS?
Is it a life simulation?
Is it a city builder?
Is it a digital card game/board game?
Is it a progressive expansion world builder/sandbox?
Is it a casual clicker?
Is it a stats manipulation sim?
Is it an interactive story?
Is it a puzzler?
Is it a sub genre, or a cross/multi-genre?
Is it a new genre?
What is Godus?
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tikigod
Master
Resistance is mean.
Posts: 115
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Post by tikigod on Jun 10, 2015 19:26:02 GMT
Almost certainly money as far as certain higher ups are concerned. The journey is identifying the optimal means of making it by any means possible, it's not about being profitable in order to pay what needs to be paid to make projects all they can be at this point. It feels and from certain ex-Cans accounts sounds like it's about committing to identifying the least expensive means to generate the highest volume of money by any means necessary that isn't directly liable to involve a lawsuit. If the means to make the most money involves shooting your own foot then sawing it off, beating yourself around the head with the leg and then trying to figure out how to market that process to establish a popular trend... then that's what'll be done. I think once upon a time Godus was about what we were told it was meant to be about. Then Molyneux saw the curiosity analytic data, ran some theoretical scenarios, saw the prospective money floating around in that data and just went bat shit crazy. When it became clear Godus after being chopped up and used as a blunt instrument to flog themselves wasn't going to be the key to unlocking the curiosity behaviour big bucks, a new project was dreamed up. As it stands, the whole Godus vibe just feels like a end of summer wrap up. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 22:16:26 GMT
This is most likely it. Without a core design vision, of what game they want to make, then they ARE effectively just sitting there working on Combat for show, as unless you have a final goal in mind "iterative design" just means you're repeating a lot of work to revise aimless into still aimless - until you have the software equivalent of the Winchester Mystery House. We have a pretty solid design we're working on for Combat, the first part of which is described in the latest Steam announcement. As we go on we'll be sharing more and more of the design to get your feedback. This thread is full of awesome ideas, and it's something that we're all looking at. Not to be rude, but no shit we know that 22cans have been "working" upon Combat, as that has been the only Godus-damned thing being said for the last few months or so. You know, right after 22cans also said that "In February, the story of Godus found its way on to the Opt-In. This covered the events of a past Deity learning about their powers and followers (The Astari). While the Steam Community didn’t seem too pleased with this, the 22cans team took your feedback and concerns on board and we're continuing to look into ways to redefine the way we deliver the story." So the almighty Combat is how you refined the way you delivered your story? Or what about this other announcement? steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791434601223/announcements/detail/257032658741051883Nothing quite like a false assurance that 22cans cares about feedback when they first turned the PC version into a mobile port, said that they were taking feedback and concerns on board about the story, and then have fairly well rubbished those claims ever since while we're supposed to be entertained with the jangling keys of Combat. That claim was made just for a sale...that seems to have continued around all other outlets where the game is sold ever since, just so customers can discover the state of the Steam community after they've actually paid money for the gold brick. Then you can go back to other announcements for an interesting contrast to what is being offered today - even less than before. So why is Combat the only thing 22cans will really acknowledge? So there is no overall design vision but you have a pretty solid design of how Combat is supposed to work in the total load of bollocks that represents the remainder of the game. *facedesks* Well, 22cans have now convinced me that there is utterly no hope for Godus at this point as it is clearly stretched across several circles of dev hell, the lack of anything resembling a core design vision just one part of why this "Combat Sprint" seems to be more of a marathon of avoiding everything else. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 22:31:57 GMT
Is it a combat RTS? Is it a life simulation? Is it a city builder? Is it a digital card game/board game? Is it a progressive expansion world builder/sandbox? Is it a casual clicker? Is it a stats manipulation sim? Is it an interactive story? Is it a puzzler? Is it a sub genre, or a cross/multi-genre? Is it a new genre? What is Godus? You've heard the Zen question "What is the sound of one hand clapping?" Godus - as "(a) delightful, Zen-like re-genesis of the god game on Windows PC or Mac OS X" - is the sound of one developer crapping. Figuring out exactly what the hell Godus is supposed to be is a kōan of its own. Especially since it appears that the dev team itself doesn't appear to know, or maybe isn't allowed to discuss, the core design vision. If one exists for this game at all. I know I've laid the snark on well here, but when given the chance to play ball with the community...I get the feeling that when it pertains to discussion about anything real, 22cans would rather just kick Combat around in the corner by themselves as usual for the "Combat Sprint". |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jun 11, 2015 3:36:39 GMT
Not to be rude, but no shit we know that 22cans have been "working" upon Combat, as that has been the only Godus-damned thing being said for the last few months or so. You know, right after 22cans also said that "In February, the story of Godus found its way on to the Opt-In. This covered the events of a past Deity learning about their powers and followers (The Astari). While the Steam Community didn’t seem too pleased with this, the 22cans team took your feedback and concerns on board and we're continuing to look into ways to redefine the way we deliver the story." So the almighty Combat is how you refined the way you delivered your story? I believe - if I recall correctly - the combat stuff actually started sometime in November. You'll have to dig, but I'm fairly certain it was at least around that time when we heard of the combat stuff, but it may even have been a bit sooner. I hadn't played the game for some time - avoiding it completely over the 2014 holidays - but I was around enough to have known about it. Back as early as January we were discussing combat in this thread Posts moved from DEV thread drift, as per Konrad's request for ideas about how combat might work, and apparently at that point there had already been some combat stuff implemented in the Opt-In branch. I believe that was when Astari raiding parties had been in place, and we were asked to provide some feedback about how we'd like combat to work, how god powers would be used, etc... So, obviously, it's been in development in some manner for a while - almost 6 months for the current combat stuff, and some "enemy attack" basics were in before that. |
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