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Post by hardly on Jun 9, 2015 1:43:54 GMT
After peer pressure from Ba'al and Mandrake im going to rush this out in work time.
Simon, Colin and others have done a good job of boosting the communication effort. Good job guys. The next step I believe is to do something else in parallel to developing combat that demonstrates a commitment to a PC focused GOdUs (yes you picked it mandrake).
So on this thread I think we should discuss small achievable development (changes in the game) or design (changes in what will be in the game) objectives that 22cans should consider working on alongside combat.
My suggestions would include:
• paint brush sculpting tools
• small changes to make sculpting easier (e.g. Increase drag distance)
• small resource enhancements
• multi profession dwellings
I had intended to put more effort into my list but it turns out I just don't want to. So what small ideas do you think 22cans should develop in parallel to combat?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 1:50:16 GMT
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember a conversation (can't remember whether it was on the boards or "in-person") about the drag distance being limited by the engine/code. Something about all sorts of buggery stuffs going on if you went to far... ugh, it was such a long time ago I can't really remember. Sorry.
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Post by hardly on Jun 9, 2015 1:52:30 GMT
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember a conversation (can't remember whether it was on the boards or "in-person") about the drag distance being limited by the engine/code. Something about all sorts of buggery stuffs going on if you went to far... ugh, it was such a long time ago I can't really remember. Sorry. Maybe a dev can confirm. That snapback really hurts my wrist. If I could just paint it would be so much better. Also how much better would it be if you got 30% of our belief back for sculpting next to a follower. |
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Post by Spiderweb on Jun 9, 2015 5:54:56 GMT
After peer pressure from Ba'al and Mandrake im going to rush this out in work time. Simon, Colin and others have done a good job of boosting the communication effort. Good job guys. The next step I believe is to do something else in parallel to developing combat that demonstrates a commitment to a PC focused GOdUs (yes you picked it mandrake). So on this thread I think we should discuss small achievable development (changes in the game) or design (changes in what will be in the game) objectives that 22cans should consider working on alongside combat. My suggestions would include: • paint brush sculpting tools • small changes to make sculpting easier (e.g. Increase drag distance) • small resource enhancements • multi profession dwellings I had intended to put more effort into my list but it turns out I just don't want to. So what small ideas do you think 22cans should develop in parallel to combat? Aren't the first 2 and last 2 items much the same? I'd love brush and therefore sculpting improvements, but additional resources professions to collect them and a better research tree would be amazing. Even just the fact there are other professions would start to add so much promise to Godus. one I think you missed is just to get art working on a new era, maybe new diverse building types to go with a profession i.e. who cares if a "teacher", does anything other than builds a nice looking school to start with? |
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Post by hardly on Jun 9, 2015 6:19:12 GMT
After peer pressure from Ba'al and Mandrake im going to rush this out in work time. Simon, Colin and others have done a good job of boosting the communication effort. Good job guys. The next step I believe is to do something else in parallel to developing combat that demonstrates a commitment to a PC focused GOdUs (yes you picked it mandrake). So on this thread I think we should discuss small achievable development (changes in the game) or design (changes in what will be in the game) objectives that 22cans should consider working on alongside combat. My suggestions would include: • paint brush sculpting tools • small changes to make sculpting easier (e.g. Increase drag distance) • small resource enhancements • multi profession dwellings I had intended to put more effort into my list but it turns out I just don't want to. So what small ideas do you think 22cans should develop in parallel to combat? Aren't the first 2 and last 2 items much the same? I'd love brush and therefore sculpting improvements, but additional resources professions to collect them and a better research tree would be amazing. Even just the fact there are other professions would start to add so much promise to Godus. one I think you missed is just to get art working on a new era, maybe new diverse building types to go with a profession i.e. who cares if a "teacher", does anything other than builds a nice looking school to start with? The game would be improved if they just had the farmers collect their wheat and all the other people eat it. Having people die when they ran out of food (slowly, one by one) would be cool. They could run outside and do a chocking action and then keel over. Also the first commandment could be half rations which keeps them alive but they don't breed, work at 1/4 speed and are really grumpy. |
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 9, 2015 7:07:12 GMT
Aren't the first 2 and last 2 items much the same? I'd love brush and therefore sculpting improvements, but additional resources professions to collect them and a better research tree would be amazing. Even just the fact there are other professions would start to add so much promise to Godus. one I think you missed is just to get art working on a new era, maybe new diverse building types to go with a profession i.e. who cares if a "teacher", does anything other than builds a nice looking school to start with? The game would be improved if they just had the farmers collect their wheat and all the other people eat it. Having people die when they ran out of food (slowly, one by one) would be cool. They could run outside and do a chocking action and then keel over. Also the first commandment could be half rations which keeps them alive but they don't breed, work at 1/4 speed and are really grumpy. Especially if the people would eat people when out of food. |
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Post by hardly on Jun 9, 2015 7:13:17 GMT
The game would be improved if they just had the farmers collect their wheat and all the other people eat it. Having people die when they ran out of food (slowly, one by one) would be cool. They could run outside and do a chocking action and then keel over. Also the first commandment could be half rations which keeps them alive but they don't breed, work at 1/4 speed and are really grumpy. Especially if the people would eat people when out of food. Now that would be really awesome. I've been thinking for a while that people should have a mind of their own so say a probably of picking a fight say with their fellow citizens. That could then be linked to commandments. I really like the idea of factions within your civ as well. It would be cool for a group of followers to decide to kill everyone else. I got a bit off track up there but the idea of your people doing unpredictable things is awesome. They could programme it so in 1/1000 times your people turn cannabal and eat each other until there is enough food to go around. |
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Post by colin22cans on Jun 9, 2015 11:24:51 GMT
The game would be improved if they just had the farmers collect their wheat and all the other people eat it. Having people die when they ran out of food (slowly, one by one) would be cool. They could run outside and do a chocking action and then keel over. Also the first commandment could be half rations which keeps them alive but they don't breed, work at 1/4 speed and are really grumpy. Especially if the people would eat people when out of food.  |
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tikigod
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Post by tikigod on Jun 9, 2015 12:52:35 GMT
A few things really come to mind that are light on the creation of new assets and are more behaviour changes here and there.
1. Remove gems. Might sound a biggy, but really you could snip them right out along with the pit and the PC version would still chug along fine as it did for almost a year prior to them being duct taped on to the side. Change existing happiness objects to cost belief and/or other resources. We've heard from Molyneux how Godus is really easy to change figures and such around, changing something to cost xxx belief rather than xxx gems I'd expect to fall under those areas unless there was a brainfart at some point when handling power costs was coded.
2. General follower pathfinding, including the suggestion I made some months ago about taking the military grouping behaviour and seeing if it can be incorporated into worker sprogging. E.G. If you leash 10 workers at a time, they'll form a work group and travel as a unit to the destination you picked using a shared path finding logic for the whole group.
3. In-game Dev Commentaries. Remove them. They're slowly creeping up to a year old now and hearing Molyneux talk about all the awesome things being added in the upcoming weeks to build upon the state of the game at the time and seeing how the game hasn't changed a damn in those regards ever since the commentaries were added is annoying and just a little bit insulting.
4. (Pending how much work this would actually require), maybe change settlement abode mashing together and consider having settlements something of a middleground between the existing single giant blob, instead opting to combine a few abodes together to be a series of smaller blobs. So it at least looks like a proper village or town community rather than a Fremen sietch that came about from some natural cave system.
5. General Follower AI. Add some. Doesn't need to be earth shattering, or anything like the borderline B&W creature AI per follower simulation that Molyneux once upon a time said was being added. Just anything to make it less like playing lobotomist zoo keeper maintaining some zombie chimps will do.
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Post by totallytim on Jun 9, 2015 16:00:20 GMT
All nice and well, but past evidence suggests it takes them ages to develop anything for PC, so I'd like to see a more immediate gesture to remedy the current situation. Currently it's just two new faces on the forums bringing words reassurance to the (more civilised) proborards mob. (Did Ba'al even submit them to the captcha test before painting their names green  ). To me everything so far seems just like another promise that waits to be broken in some way, probably later than sooner. Nothing I haven't seen before to some extent. In fact if a time traveller arrived today and took the PC development and community management of project Godus for his current time reference, he probably wouldn't be able to tell what year it is. I'm all in for what OP suggested but I'd like to start with the basics. First I want evidence that the game is actually being worked on (not as an hobby/intern project) and that development isn't hindered by the Trial. I also want to know the plan for Godus. I want to know what the game I funded many months ago is going to look like. Heck I currently know more about The Universim than about Godus. And finally I want to know what's the incentive for properly finishing the game and not just spacebaseing or abandoning it entirely (beyond the 'fear' of another media shitstorm). Please keep in mind we heard enough bullshit to know what it smells like. |
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Post by eskaton23 on Jun 9, 2015 16:05:37 GMT
What Tim said x 100
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Post by hardly on Jun 9, 2015 19:24:28 GMT
Especially if the people would eat people when out of food. Perfect response, can't stop laughing. |
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Post by greay on Jun 9, 2015 21:31:41 GMT
I like this idea, but I see a couple issues: - some of these "small" improvements aren't small at all (e.g. multi-progression settlements, no matter how great that would be. and the resource system needs so much work even a small change would probably require a large effort) - whatever they do pick, it should probably be something that has the most chance of making the most people happy ... and that's no small task  |
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 9, 2015 21:47:39 GMT
I like this idea, but I see a couple issues: - some of these "small" improvements aren't small at all (e.g. multi-progression settlements, no matter how great that would be. and the resource system needs so much work even a small change would probably require a large effort) - whatever they do pick, it should probably be something that has the most chance of making the most people happy ... and that's no small task Then it will probably an in game clothing store where players can spend gems to dress up their followers. |
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Post by hardly on Jun 9, 2015 21:57:36 GMT
I like this idea, but I see a couple issues: - some of these "small" improvements aren't small at all (e.g. multi-progression settlements, no matter how great that would be. and the resource system needs so much work even a small change would probably require a large effort) - whatever they do pick, it should probably be something that has the most chance of making the most people happy ... and that's no small task Since the settlement is just a black box I would have thought setting them to spawn a range of professions would be relatively simple. Maybe settlements should have to be self sufficient meaning they need enough farmers to feed their other specialties. You could then have trade between settlements. When I say "easy to do" I mean a few months work as compared to 6 and counting for combat. |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Jun 10, 2015 0:45:42 GMT
How about implementing a "Save Game/Start New Game" functionality. At this point, it makes little sense to have the single play-through albatross lingering. Restarting the game isn't going away, so it might as well get a revamp so this is more like a single-player game and less like a mobile persistent port.
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Post by greay on Jun 10, 2015 2:09:03 GMT
Since the settlement is just a black box I would have thought setting them to spawn a range of professions would be relatively simple. Maybe settlements should have to be self sufficient meaning they need enough farmers to feed their other specialties. You could then have trade between settlements. When I say "easy to do" I mean a few months work as compared to 6 and counting for combat. Fair enough. Honestly, without access to the code, I have no idea if my assessment is even marginally accurate. But that's really for them to decide, anyways. I think the best place for them to start (if they were to take us up on this) would be something that could be completed in a single sprint (however long that is for them). Some easy wins for them to start with. Then once they've proven they're actually willing to make these sort of changes, take on some of the larger ( > than 1 month) ones. That's my take, at least. (and for what it's worth, I do very much want to see the sort of settlement changes you're describing) Then it will probably an in game clothing store where players can spend gems to dress up their followers. I thought it went w/o saying that I was referring to the disenfranchised PC players, not the mobile rabble |
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Post by hardly on Jun 10, 2015 2:27:43 GMT
Since the settlement is just a black box I would have thought setting them to spawn a range of professions would be relatively simple. Maybe settlements should have to be self sufficient meaning they need enough farmers to feed their other specialties. You could then have trade between settlements. When I say "easy to do" I mean a few months work as compared to 6 and counting for combat. Fair enough. Honestly, without access to the code, I have no idea if my assessment is even marginally accurate. But that's really for them to decide, anyways. I think the best place for them to start (if they were to take us up on this) would be something that could be completed in a single sprint (however long that is for them). Some easy wins for them to start with. Then once they've proven they're actually willing to make these sort of changes, take on some of the larger ( > than 1 month) ones. That's my take, at least. (and for what it's worth, I do very much want to see the sort of settlement changes you're describing) Then it will probably an in game clothing store where players can spend gems to dress up their followers. I thought it went w/o saying that I was referring to the disenfranchised PC players, not the mobile rabble I think that uncertainty about how hard different changes are to do has been a real barrier to community relations. Obviously I don't have any idea either. My hope in making this thread was we could give them some ideas that are appealing to us and they could pick a couple that are achievable for them. The thread allows for a two way discussion. One of the problems with the historic approach is they would invest many months into a change we would then criticise, we didn't understand why they did it (and still don't) and they didn't anticipate our response. This could all be fixed by talking more. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 11:39:29 GMT
What totallytim said is the point. We don't know what they have planned to do with the game. Ok, they told us about combat and a few other things - but what should the game look like when it's done. My expectations are very low and i don't see it ending in a state i want it to play. A bit of combat or some new Ages won't change anything. Another point is that Peter said in one of his last interviews that the game will be done in six month, that's almost six month ago now. I don't see them do a game in the next 6 years with this speed.
They are not able to tell us their vision for Godus - there has to be a goal you want to reach in every project (even in a game project). The Point is they never told us before Konrad took over and they can't tell us now.
This could mean
1. They have no Vision/Goal (will not work - my opinion)
2. They have one but can't tell us because it's not something we want to hear (for example - make some Kickstarter rewards and spacebase)
I think it's 2. - maybe that's the reason why Konrad isn't allowed to talk about the game anymore.
My Suggestion for improving the community relationship is: Refund everyone from Kickstarter and SEA.
I don't think it's profitable to have three, four or five devs work on a game that will not bring any further money in a few month. I don't think Godus makes a lot of money on PC right now and i don't expect combat to change this. They have no plans/clue how to integrate combat in mobile (like they said). So better take the devs and do the mobile version instead of PC that will bring in more money. Doing both will not work with a four or five dev team (at least if it should be a good pc game). Or take the whole team and put them on the trail. But refund us now and don't try to put us off with some loveless rewards and a spacebased slightly changed mobile game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 12:35:57 GMT
They are not able to tell us their vision for Godus - there has to be a goal you want to reach in every project (even in a game project). The Point is they never told us before Konrad took over and they can't tell us now. This could mean 1. They have no Vision/Goal (will not work - my opinion) 2. They have one but can't tell us because it's not something we want to hear (for example - make some Kickstarter rewards and spacebase) I think it's 2. - maybe that's the reason why Konrad isn't allowed to talk about the game anymore. This is most likely it. Without a core design vision, of what game they want to make, then they ARE effectively just sitting there working on Combat for show, as unless you have a final goal in mind "iterative design" just means you're repeating a lot of work to revise aimless into still aimless - until you have the software equivalent of the Winchester Mystery House. |
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). To me everything so far seems just like another promise that waits to be broken in some way, probably later than sooner. Nothing I haven't seen before to some extent. In fact if a time traveller arrived today and took the PC development and community management of project Godus for his current time reference, he probably wouldn't be able to tell what year it is.
