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Post by Gmr Leon on Jun 21, 2015 1:06:39 GMT
I think totallytim sort of indirectly raises a really good question that we haven't bothered to ask, since we're not getting ourselves too optimistic about things, which might be posed as: how does combat feed into the core game in any way so as to not feel like another side mini-game, like Voyages? As noted, an implied failure state of harm to your homeworld doesn't cut it, nor would a loss of followers, as we came to see with Voyages. It may be a nice distraction, but without much connection to the rest of the game, it will kind of fall flat. Attaching resources also doesn't help because of extensive reasons we've provided before regarding how that whole system is generally broken to begin with. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 3:38:12 GMT
I think totallytim sort of indirectly raises a really good question that we haven't bothered to ask, since we're not getting ourselves too optimistic about things, which might be posed as: how does combat feed into the core game in any way so as to not feel like another side mini-game, like Voyages? As noted, an implied failure state of harm to your homeworld doesn't cut it, nor would a loss of followers, as we came to see with Voyages. It may be a nice distraction, but without much connection to the rest of the game, it will kind of fall flat. Attaching resources also doesn't help because of extensive reasons we've provided before regarding how that whole system is generally broken to begin with. Haven't bothered to ask? Is that how you're disguising pointing out the elephant in the room YET AGAIN ever since this silly "Combat Sprint" started to be the go-to spiel from 22cans? Hopefully simon22cans will be able to answer this, finally, IF there is an answer at all. No, we don't care to be strung along by more pointing to the updates as if we're waiting for the Second Coming...while the updates offer some details that bring up worry since there's been no actual core design vision offered except for repeats of Core Design (minus the Tomb Raider franchise). Konrad has basically pointed out how without extensive reworking that there is no salvaging the mess of Homeworld or any way to connect the almighty Combat to that steaming pile of Godus. At least there will be more polish offered to the Combat mini-game as compared to the Voyages mini-game. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 3:55:55 GMT
Assuming speculation about combat is on track, I don't think another mini-game will do much to fix what ails Godus. It might give the mobile crowd more tappies to tap and wait-walls to spend their cute little gemmie-poohs on, but I'd wager that if maintaining the "peaceful Zen like atmosphere in Godus" means what I think it means... we won't be seeing anything but a tacked on side venue rather than a meaningful, main-game driven content infusion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 6:45:30 GMT
Assuming speculation about combat is on track, I don't think another mini-game will do much to fix what ails Godus. It might give the mobile crowd more tappies to tap and wait-walls to spend their cute little gemmie-poohs on, but I'd wager that if maintaining the "peaceful Zen like atmosphere in Godus" means what I think it means... we won't be seeing anything but a tacked on side venue rather than a meaningful, main-game driven content infusion. You are quite likely right. The whole "we don't know if mobile users will want Combat" is probably more like "we haven't figured out yet how to paywall the living hell out of this yet". Just like they did with the story. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 22:06:47 GMT
If 22Cans honestly expects us to believe that combat wasn't designed for mobile, I really don't know what to say. Just look at this thinly-veiled rubbish: "We had to make some extensive changes to the control scheme and GUI to accommodate the needs of combat mechanics too. While leashing was a fine way of getting followers about in Homeworld, it proved too slow and imprecise for ordering troops about. We added controls for moving selected Warbands anywhere or having them attack any target with a single click, more akin to what players would expect from an RTS game." Love that bit. "Attack any target with a single click". Definitely not a single "tap", mind you, a single "click". Shameless. ...Really? You generally right click (or left click, if you go back to some older games) to attack stuff in RTS games. Not that I don't also think this may come to mobile, but I think it's something of a leap to read that into it. Although, it is somewhat funny to read them basically saying, "We made mostly traditional RTS controls because the other crap would've been awful." "Combat" in Godus, controls and all, is rather pointedly simplified compared to games in the same genre, such as Black And White 2, to the point where mobile has clearly been the lead platform for this minigame/feature/butchered Kickstarter goals. To expand on what totallytim and Mandrake said, the nailed-on nature of the Combat update seems to bear out the community belief that 22Cans is making the most of their bought time until The Trial is done by slapping together the sterile efforts of a single-digit volunteer/intern/amateur "team" into mobile-friendly, monetizable content that technically fulfills the aforementioned Kickstarter goals. This should come as no surprise after James Leach took the time to write Godus a lovely story that,mysteriously enough, sounded nothing like his other works. |
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Post by Gmr Leon on Jun 22, 2015 0:39:06 GMT
I think totallytim sort of indirectly raises a really good question that we haven't bothered to ask, since we're not getting ourselves too optimistic about things, which might be posed as: how does combat feed into the core game in any way so as to not feel like another side mini-game, like Voyages? As noted, an implied failure state of harm to your homeworld doesn't cut it, nor would a loss of followers, as we came to see with Voyages. It may be a nice distraction, but without much connection to the rest of the game, it will kind of fall flat. Attaching resources also doesn't help because of extensive reasons we've provided before regarding how that whole system is generally broken to begin with. Haven't bothered to ask? Is that how you're disguising pointing out the elephant in the room YET AGAIN ever since this silly "Combat Sprint" started to be the go-to spiel from 22cans? Hopefully simon22cans will be able to answer this, finally, IF there is an answer at all. No, we don't care to be strung along by more pointing to the updates as if we're waiting for the Second Coming...while the updates offer some details that bring up worry since there's been no actual core design vision offered except for repeats of Core Design (minus the Tomb Raider franchise). Konrad has basically pointed out how without extensive reworking that there is no salvaging the mess of Homeworld or any way to connect the almighty Combat to that steaming pile of Godus. At least there will be more polish offered to the Combat mini-game as compared to the Voyages mini-game. Oh no, I just meant with this most recent update none of us had asked about it again (from what I'd read around here, anyway). Of course we've been asking it since this whole foray into combat began, and as we've seen, they still have no real answer to it, it seems. Despite that, it seems we have to ask over and over in hopes that maybe, finally, they have something to say. Give them every chance to pull themselves up out of the hole they've dug themselves into as we have been all along (and easily far too long at that), but it seems they're really happy in their hole, so we're stuck doing the rounds for whatever bizarre reason we choose to stick around this thing. Meh. At least Lego Worlds will have caves I can get lost in soon. |
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heggers
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Post by heggers on Jun 22, 2015 8:16:00 GMT
Ah! I see you're back hiding behind that excuse again... So sad |
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zeruelb
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Post by zeruelb on Jun 22, 2015 10:52:32 GMT
Ah! I see you're back hiding behind that excuse again... So sad Well, next time we should probably say "im just a human!". I.e. when you rob a bank and rape a woman, they should surely forgive you instantly. |
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Post by simon22cans on Jun 22, 2015 11:33:28 GMT
Ah! I see you're back hiding behind that excuse again... So sad Sorry, I don't follow? We're independently owned and not by a parent or publisher (i.e. internal dev). |
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Post by mindless on Jun 22, 2015 11:59:46 GMT
Moly in his kickstarter pitch emphasised that Godus would be developed without the oversight/involevement of a publisher, only to double cross everyone within about 8 months ( or was it less) to jump into bed with DeNA ( A Mobile Publisher), which has had an undeniable and profound effect on the games development ever since. So trying to claim that now you are independent of a publisher is most disingenuous, or are you officially announcing a departure from DeNA?  |
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Post by simon22cans on Jun 22, 2015 12:10:16 GMT
Moly in his kickstarter pitch emphasised that Godus would be developed without the oversight/involevement of a publisher, only to double cross everyone within about 8 months ( or was it less) to jump into bed with DeNA ( A Mobile Publisher), which has had an undeniable and profound effect on the games development ever since. So trying to claim that now you are independent of a publisher is most disingenuous, or are you officially announcing a departure from DeNA? ahh, ok, I see. I wasn't trying to be disingenuous, I was just saying that we aren't owned by a publisher and are an independently owned dev studio. |
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zeruelb
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Post by zeruelb on Jun 23, 2015 9:38:08 GMT
Moly in his kickstarter pitch emphasised that Godus would be developed without the oversight/involevement of a publisher, only to double cross everyone within about 8 months ( or was it less) to jump into bed with DeNA ( A Mobile Publisher), which has had an undeniable and profound effect on the games development ever since. So trying to claim that now you are independent of a publisher is most disingenuous, or are you officially announcing a departure from DeNA? ahh, ok, I see. I wasn't trying to be disingenuous, I was just saying that we aren't owned by a publisher and are an independently owned dev studio. Whereas the mobile Publisher has impact on the mobile releases i guess? This would make you a not independent Development studio as you are being told what to do. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jun 23, 2015 17:57:01 GMT
ahh, ok, I see. I wasn't trying to be disingenuous, I was just saying that we aren't owned by a publisher and are an independently owned dev studio. Whereas the mobile Publisher has impact on the mobile releases i guess? This would make you a not independent Development studio as you are being told what to do. Well, as it goes, we still really aren't entirely privy to how much, if any, influence or control the mobile distribution publisher(s) have over 22Cans' operations and management - although we can be certain that they have set forth specific guidelines, criteria, and regulations for the mobile specific development of that game app. So, in my understanding, that doesn't necessarily invalidate their standing as a [true] indie development studio, having partnership deals, but it certainly does still leave questions about the validity of claims that those non-owners have not influenced the direction of PC development. Because the evidence is clearly visible in comparison of the two. That's why they are being held to flame, not specifically that they may or may not be a true "indie" studio - as that line is being blurred more than ever these days anyhow - but because they should never have allowed those dealings to occur in the manner they did, thus irrevocably toxifying the game and community with mobile influence. All that doesn't make them any less an independent studio, it just makes them questionable as a competent and transparent indie developer. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 13:57:42 GMT
Moly in his kickstarter pitch emphasised that Godus would be developed without the oversight/involevement of a publisher, only to double cross everyone within about 8 months ( or was it less) to jump into bed with DeNA ( A Mobile Publisher), which has had an undeniable and profound effect on the games development ever since. So trying to claim that now you are independent of a publisher is most disingenuous, or are you officially announcing a departure from DeNA? ahh, ok, I see. I wasn't trying to be disingenuous, I was just saying that we aren't owned by a publisher and are an independently owned dev studio. One that appears to have had the publisher determine some of the design decisions behind the game, so it's not really "independent" development but rather contracted work in part of the title's development. Indie has a more definite meaning in gaming than "not owned by a publisher" - it implies creative freedom without publisher interference/dictation, and it should be noted that this community has been given the "NDA" bollocks from 22cans before when it involved matters the publisher obviously had control over. Speaking of which, it would be lovely to know how much influence DeNA still has, considering 22cans replaced the PC game with a port of what they made for DeNA.  |
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 27, 2015 14:27:39 GMT
I have a feeling DeNa is not an issue anymore at this time as the team has been severly scaled down and has been working on combat features only for about 6 months. Perhaps DeNa is now involved in Peter's new (ad)venture.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2015 14:53:52 GMT
I have a feeling DeNa is not an issue anymore at this time as the team has been severly scaled down and has been working on combat features only for about 6 months. Perhaps DeNa is now involved in Peter's new (ad)venture. Until 22cans actually puts back in a PC game, to replace the mobile port they replaced the previous show of developing for PC with, then I feel that DeNA continues to be a core part of the problem as their publisher demands are influencing design of Godus more than anything that is offered to those who bought the Early Access bait and switch along with those who made this whole thing possible through Kickstarter. If Combat is paywalled to hell to release it upon mobile, as Story was done the same with an opt-in build for Early Access customers to play the role as simply paying testers before it was released upon mobile... Community response will likely not be pretty. If 22cans wants to offer some legitimacy to their "indie" development, then they can start addressing the elephant in the room of why they replaced the PC game that was starting to look like it had potential with the paid-for-F2P mobile rubbish. Then fix that problem. This shouldn't be news to them, since I've personally seen that be a major topic (aside from all the dissatisfaction threads that make it look like 22cans are on one huge devtroll), and currently it looks like Spiderweb's efforts are more effort than 22cans cares to give about core design issues of the game - the core design issues that originated with DeNA. Yay, Combat...polish and gild a turd, it's still at the core, a turd... |
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Post by morsealworth on Jun 27, 2015 21:15:49 GMT
A small reminder that the issue was raised since the Alpha and we all know the result. Lord Ba'al and Qetesh can testify. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 1:34:46 GMT
A small reminder that the issue was raised since the Alpha and we all know the result. Lord Ba'al and Qetesh can testify. Indeed, and it still continues to be an issue as long as the base game is still at the core a F2P/P2W paywall hurdle model of really dubious nature. It has some people so turned off from anything 22cans says about anything else, including the almighty Combat that is being paraded around as if it's supposed to somehow make the game worth playing for PC users, who have in the past been given opt-in hype only to see "Early Access" be abused as a free testing ground for the mobile version - since 22cans doesn't appear arsed to develop an actual PC game except in teases like "Fabs' Secret Project". This is why public reception towards Combat is lukewarm at best, usually pessimistic based upon previous abuses, and so it seems that people have to stretch to say nice things about it - if they can say anything nice about it at all because the rubbish of the core game precludes any care for the gilding of the turd: steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/530645446316280193/That is why until anything actually meets the publish build, it really doesn't count towards the present status of the game. So what does 22cans' current management plan on doing about this problem, or is it going to simply be more quid pro status quo while collecting more dissatisfied customers by misrepresentation of the state of product numerous places where Godus is sold and often flogged on sale? They're not able to appease the current customers/backers, who are about the only ones replying to their updates on Steam, so why collect up more of the same? I've really not seen so much hype yet a history of wanton neglect simultaneously over the same title. Even the mobile's description on Google Play is still using the Zendesk support site instead of the new 22cans support portal. This is why I have some sympathy for the job the current management is going to have in recovering from the years of clownshoes abuse and neglect 22cans has inflicted upon their backers and customers, and where I think it is quite fair enough to point out these problems so that they can address them properly. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jun 28, 2015 16:57:59 GMT
Wow, that's a very lukewarm, and kind of saddening, reception for that update. The stuff in the recent dev updates are pretty interesting and look great, but unfortunately it's just not enough to overcome the fog that has grown over the community these last few years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2015 19:46:42 GMT
At the risk of sounding didactic, DeNA is rather irrelevant to the mobile influence discussion. 22Can's lifeblood right now is the revenue stream they siphon from Godus microtransactions. Said microtransactions can only be found on mobile, which 22Cans has told us is the "real journey" of Godus. In the light of those facts, to say that there is any sort of "PC sprint" going on flies in the face of common sense, especially in regards to 22Can's recent transition.
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