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Post by Spiderweb on Jul 31, 2015 5:52:01 GMT
A game council (suggested by GK as he left) would require 22cans on board with it. invite steam, proboards, Facebook and 22cans forum users to put their names forward. stage a vote, asking them to be voted for to get on council (Of 3,6,9 or 12?). Maintained by some sort of vote levels to maintain your place on council. lobby members of this council to put suggestions/questions into a council meeting (anyone with who thinks they have a great idea/feedback/question can approach a council member). meeting to discuss items lobbied in read only threads for world to see, council argues for against items (if they've already been addressed that can save 22cans from keep answering the same questions/concerns). council meets directly with devs to ask question/give feed back/address current community concerns in another read only thread again. repeat semi regularly? opinions? EDIT: It would really need to be offical and recognised by the community as an place to go to. Its along the lines of Gmr Leon Questions document, but would require actual time and interaction with the devs/designers. |
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Post by Praise me on Jul 31, 2015 6:08:53 GMT
I'm gonna weigh in.
22 cans is putting forth no effort to the community which has caused this community to turn on itself.
This suggestion requires so much involvement from a team that can't be assed to do more than tease us I see no hope.
In fact there is nothing... and I mean nothing that the community can do. 22cans has to do the work.
You are setting up another soft pitch for 22 cans to fail us again. They need to put forth the effort which they appear to have no intention of doing. If we look at ceo's comments about how all we have said is its shit... and then refer to the spreadsheet we see the disconnect. We are being vilified for being pissed off victims.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 31, 2015 6:23:56 GMT
Back in the days of Monkeythumbz there was indeed talk about a game council. I guess it could work but both 22cans and the community would really need to give it a chance and actually work on it. I won't be putting my name forward as I don't think I have the time and have enough on my plate. But I would support the cause. |
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 31, 2015 10:40:42 GMT
Back in the days of Monkeythumbz there was indeed talk about a game council. I guess it could work but both 22cans and the community would really need to give it a chance and actually work on it. I won't be putting my name forward as I don't think I have the time and have enough on my plate. But I would support the cause. Could anyone explain the game council idea? This is the first time I've heard of it! |
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Post by Spiderweb on Jul 31, 2015 10:44:32 GMT
Back in the days of Monkeythumbz there was indeed talk about a game council. I guess it could work but both 22cans and the community would really need to give it a chance and actually work on it. I won't be putting my name forward as I don't think I have the time and have enough on my plate. But I would support the cause. Could anyone explain the game council idea? This is the first time I've heard of it! Its in the beginning of the thread colin22cans |
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 31, 2015 10:55:09 GMT
Could anyone explain the game council idea? This is the first time I've heard of it! Its in the beginning of the thread colin22cans |
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Post by Spiderweb on Jul 31, 2015 11:02:17 GMT
It would really need to be official and recognized by the community as an place to go to. Its along the lines of Gmr Leon Questions document, but would require actual time and interaction with the devs/designers to work and give hope. |
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Post by colin22cans on Jul 31, 2015 11:03:24 GMT
Back in the days of Monkeythumbz there was indeed talk about a game council. I guess it could work but both 22cans and the community would really need to give it a chance and actually work on it. I won't be putting my name forward as I don't think I have the time and have enough on my plate. But I would support the cause. After having a coffee and reading it properly... I'd be happy to help out. |
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Post by Praise me on Jul 31, 2015 13:51:54 GMT
Just to point out... you are suggesting setting up a layer of people to further remove 22cans from interactions with the public, so you can get them to respond to feedback?
I again point to the spreadsheet, the steam forums and the locked threads with suggestions, I point at the questions thread and many other attempts to do just exactly this.
You can only judge a thing for what it does.... and for 2 years this has been the pattern. At this point everyone still hanging around for any reason at all fits the layman's definition of insane (yes me included).
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I do quite enjoy how as a paying customer the conversation isn't happening on any of the developers forums but off on the side. the 22cans web forum is more dead than there primary pc sales portal on steam... I mean litearlly the only place to play the game isnt where we get to talk about the game.
We have heard all kinds of excuses, but why hasn't 22cans actually bothered to get their proverbial houses in order?
Take control of your assets and make the forums work instead of just sucking the life out of the work that the forum mods are doing here
I see exactly why this mass exodus happened, I saw it coming when Ba'al lost his objectivity for being disagreed with... Stockholm syndrome has set in
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Post by Spiderweb on Jul 31, 2015 14:40:51 GMT
Just to point out... you are suggesting setting up a layer of people to further remove 22cans from interactions with the public, so you can get them to respond to feedback? I again point to the spreadsheet, the steam forums and the locked threads with suggestions, I point at the questions thread and many other attempts to do just exactly this. You can only judge a thing for what it does.... and for 2 years this has been the pattern. At this point everyone still hanging around for any reason at all fits the layman's definition of insane (yes me included). The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I do quite enjoy how as a paying customer the conversation isn't happening on any of the developers forums but off on the side. the 22cans web forum is more dead than there primary pc sales portal on steam... I mean litearlly the only place to play the game isnt where we get to talk about the game. We have heard all kinds of excuses, but why hasn't 22cans actually bothered to get their proverbial houses in order? Take control of your assets and make the forums work instead of just sucking the life out of the work that the forum mods are doing here I see exactly why this mass exodus happened, I saw it coming when Ba'al lost his objectivity for being disagreed with... Stockholm syndrome has set in Its an Olive branch? If we could come up with the right method they might interact more, historically we saw responses to Gmr Leons "Lets Jam" where we collected questions and presented them and I believe that was due to the way it was pitched - with respect. Hard questions were still asked, but I also feel some of the questions where misinterpreted, I think that less likely with a council. This may all be to late, I don't know, but I'd like to see this in place and working, if 22cans threw themselves behind it I believe it could work. Its only an idea and better than just continually moaning about the current state. EDIT: The "additional layers" would in my opinion, lessen the hate and vitriol and increase the constructive side of the threads. EDIT2: If this has been done before, then it would fit your definition, but I never heard of a game council for Godus, which is what I'm suggesting. The mass exodus of 3 (you weren't asked to leave). |
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Aron
Master
Posts: 125 
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023768234/
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Post by Aron on Jul 31, 2015 14:43:42 GMT
my Suggestion is to stop to delete/move post on the steam Forums withou any reason
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Post by Spiderweb on Jul 31, 2015 14:51:01 GMT
my Suggestion is to stop to delete/move post on the steam Forums withou any reason Something the community could press with this sort of council to represent, the content of the deleted, move posts would be raised as a clear united question(s). |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jul 31, 2015 15:03:51 GMT
Count me out of any "game council". I have my reasons but won't try to sway anyone from trying.
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Post by Spiderweb on Jul 31, 2015 15:08:07 GMT
Count me out of any "game council". I have my reasons but won't try to sway anyone from trying. To be honest, I don't want to or have the time to represent on this council either, but just wanted to put the idea out. I think it could genuinely help community relations, but I'm afraid it would and should be up to 22cans to get started not me. |
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Post by mindless on Jul 31, 2015 15:38:23 GMT
(not sure if this is the right place to write this, but lets try it anyway, the mods can move it out if necessary)
***potentialy negative opinion*** (with suggestions for improvement)
Regarding the steam forums recent changes, its certainly the cans prerogative to change things as they like, yet there was no advanced warning given to anyone of the incoming change, would the cans at least consider giving us the common curtesy of some advanced notice in the future about their plans, rather than just throw it out there, and see what happens.
for instance, there are now many threads which I had been reading and following for a long time, and some that I have even contributed to, that are now totally locked away from me, for what I consider no good reason, its not inspiring confidence in me if you know what i mean.
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Post by Praise me on Aug 1, 2015 1:26:15 GMT
Just to point out... you are suggesting setting up a layer of people to further remove 22cans from interactions with the public, so you can get them to respond to feedback? I again point to the spreadsheet, the steam forums and the locked threads with suggestions, I point at the questions thread and many other attempts to do just exactly this. You can only judge a thing for what it does.... and for 2 years this has been the pattern. At this point everyone still hanging around for any reason at all fits the layman's definition of insane (yes me included). The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I do quite enjoy how as a paying customer the conversation isn't happening on any of the developers forums but off on the side. the 22cans web forum is more dead than there primary pc sales portal on steam... I mean litearlly the only place to play the game isnt where we get to talk about the game. We have heard all kinds of excuses, but why hasn't 22cans actually bothered to get their proverbial houses in order? Take control of your assets and make the forums work instead of just sucking the life out of the work that the forum mods are doing here I see exactly why this mass exodus happened, I saw it coming when Ba'al lost his objectivity for being disagreed with... Stockholm syndrome has set in Its an Olive branch? If we could come up with the right method they might interact more, historically we saw responses to Gmr Leons "Lets Jam" where we collected questions and presented them and I believe that was due to the way it was pitched - with respect. Hard questions were still asked, but I also feel some of the questions where misinterpreted, I think that less likely with a council. This may all be to late, I don't know, but I'd like to see this in place and working, if 22cans threw themselves behind it I believe it could work. Its only an idea and better than just continually moaning about the current state. EDIT: The "additional layers" would in my opinion, lessen the hate and vitriol and increase the constructive side of the threads. EDIT2: If this has been done before, then it would fit your definition, but I never heard of a game council for Godus, which is what I'm suggesting. The mass exodus of 3 (you weren't asked to leave). I really don't want to keep coming back and adding 2 more cents but this is.... anyway SO this thread offers a solution that not a single person has volunteered for... Who would possibly want to wrap themselves as a blanket around 22cans to protect them from what they are doing to us. When the rest of the world is standing around with gasoline and torches? masochists Hard questions were steadfastly avoided and ignored on the lets jam... and that was entirely a stalling tactic while they quietly fucked us in the background. Colin's response to the forums reshuffling is telling when you consider that 2 new threads a day on steam is what he is claiming is too much to sift through for the useful posts. July had less than 60 new topics, 25 or so of them are (now) in bugs. ***** It won't affect that. People can still see the Steam Announcements, Facebook, Twitter, Steam Reviews etc. I didn't ignore point 3. "The reason being we were all getting a little tired of filtering through posts to get to actually require our attention." Having this in place will allow us to see what people are actually saying easier. It's about filtering out the trolls who just want to continue hating on something. ***** PR and CM are not even close to prioties, that would be almost acceptable if the game had any priority, but its been 8 months? since Godus was declared complete and basically nothing has changed other than the pamphlets being handed out. yup that's it we are trolls spewing hate speech without a single constructive thing to say. So what is this godus.boards.net/post/21515 A collection of notes from trolls? Same old stuff different faces. the community can try all it wants but 22cans still is only providing lip service. Colin would be happy to help out... but we have to do the groundwork... Do you really think this is going to go better than the community contest to foster goodwill? That was a give away... this is asking for volunteer targets and many of the few people who might be left and considered reasonable have already said to count them out. If we use the right olive branch maybe they wont beat us? Nope, I will never willingly play victim so you go right ahead and volunteer for your idea... why don't you want to do it? Because of dicks like me ofc who are pissed off at being lied to slandered, libeled, marginalized, called trolls, and etc... And the backlash has become like telling the rape victim to stop complaining about the rapist in the room! (but he acts so nice) I can see there is no place for negative nancies like myself and will refrain from giving a shit on this board anymore. Which is too bad universe sim was interesting but I am not going to be able to read one forum and not another, and THIS forum is enraging. |
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Post by Spiderweb on Aug 1, 2015 3:44:54 GMT
Firstly thanks for your opinion, your still posting so why leave as a member?
No one has volunteered in 1 day of putting an idea out OK I did not expect anyone to volunteer in this thread. It is just an idea/suggestion, part of my goal in this thread was to look for other suggestions ideas to fix relations (if possible). Not the usual, we can never trust 22cans posts let's throw hate at them.
Plus I agree it relies on 22cans drumming up interest not me and the community responding.
If this had been running from near the start of development, with regular q&a sessions, with info going back and forward we might have a different community stance, I still believe we could.
I've offered Godus feedback asked questions plenty of times before and have felt ignored by 22cans. Do I hate them for it, no. Maybe our voices are static, maybe a council can bring clarity via a single louder voice.
I'm not a backer, I brought this in SEA for £15, I feel I've had £15 of entertainment from it, I'm disappointed it hasn't lived up to expectations, I could walked away easily but I like this forum for the people's opinions on things other than Godus.
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Post by hardly on Aug 1, 2015 3:52:53 GMT
Ok the problem I have with the whole community/22Cans situation is the massive gap between our expectations. 22Cans are working under a set of constraints, some of which we know, some of which we accept and some of which we consider are of their own making.
We know 22Cans wont deliver 100% of Peter's promises, at some point 22Cans will sit down and define where the game stops. If you want to improve the community relationship then you have to have this discussion, pull the bandaid, feel the outrage and then we can move on.
We all have our views about what a compromise version of GODUS will look like, its time to unite those views. You would involve the community in that discussion. This will require honesty, a lot of honesty.
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Post by morsealworth on Aug 1, 2015 6:16:14 GMT
We know 22Cans wont deliver 100% of Peter's promises There's a small grammar mistake here. Allow me to fix it. We know 22Cans 100% won't deliver on Peter's promises |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Aug 4, 2015 4:27:31 GMT
The problem with a gaming council is that there's so little chance it will actually produce results. Over a year ago, the idea was posited. I didn't think it'd work then and I don't think it'd work now for the simple fact that 22Cans is and has always been incapable of meaningfully engaging any parts of the external community for longer than a few weeks. Whether it was the wall of text discussion from the post-2.0 era, Leon's last gasp attempt at bridging the gap between the community and development last fall, or even the pseudo-discussion of combat from last February, the single constant thing was that 22Cans could not bring itself to actually listen or take the community seriously to what was being said.
A gaming council needs to actually serve some purpose for both sides of the fence. The community needs to be sure they are actually empowered to spearhead changes. It'll fizzle and die like all the recommendations threads if 22Cans just uses it as a means of placating the masses while it keeps on its own agenda. Things will start off swell. A few things will seem promising and the community will "give it a chance" like it has over and over and over and over again. It'll last 3-4 months before the last die-hards finally admit that 22Cans has no intention to actually listen to the council. At that point, 22Cans will have to move on to a new technique to keep the screaming in check a while longer.
Of course, at this point we're getting to the end of things. There's just not much juice to squeeze from this lemon. When combat finally arrives, we'll finally see what else they're planning on doing and the path forward won't be so murky. With how reluctant 22Cans has been with its long term plans, I doubt many people will like it.
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