|
|
Post by militairensneuvelen on Oct 7, 2015 8:39:19 GMT
There are bigger and more important names to remember...
|
|
Aron
Master
Posts: 125 
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023768234/
|
Post by Aron on Oct 7, 2015 16:54:04 GMT
You may have a point Matthew but to date no one from 22Cans has actually acknowledged the fact that those who paid even £14 for the game feel like they have been scammed and scammed big time. If this had happened in any other industry you can bet there would be consequences.....oh wait....didn't VW just....oh NVM. There are some people who were working hard to improve things for the game and who were regularly raising concerns over certain decisions and I feel it'd be absolutely unreasonable to turn Godus into a type of permanent Scarlet Letter on a person's portfolio. prove or it never happend |
|
|
|
Post by Deth on Oct 7, 2015 17:03:51 GMT
I think Matthew Allen has been honest enough with us to take him at his word. |
|
|
|
Post by 13thGeneral on Oct 7, 2015 17:19:51 GMT
Hey, yet another disussion I have missed. I'm often too late to really add useful commentary or banter.
Oh well.
Um, making a black list of every person connected to, or involved with 22Cans/Godus seems a bit harsh. I'm sure you'd not enjoy being held accountable for someone's misgivings or wrongdoings simply because you once did business with them; I mean, are you going to ostracize their internet provider, or the electric company for providing services to them for monetary exchange? Ok, that's a bit of a stretch, but it makes the point. I guess. *shrug*
|
|
|
|
Post by Drake on Oct 7, 2015 18:16:39 GMT
Hey, yet another disussion I have missed. I'm often too late to really add useful commentary or banter. Oh well. Um, making a black list of every person connected to, or involved with 22Cans/Godus seems a bit harsh. I'm sure you'd not enjoy being held accountable for someone's misgivings or wrongdoings simply because you once did business with them; I mean, are you going to ostracize their internet provider, or the electric company for providing services to them for monetary exchange? Ok, that's a bit of a stretch, but it makes the point. I guess. *shrug*
No, not the electric company, just the people that actually put work toward knowingly defrauding and lying to the public.
|
|
|
|
Post by Spiderweb on Oct 7, 2015 19:34:29 GMT
Hey, yet another disussion I have missed. I'm often too late to really add useful commentary or banter. Oh well. Um, making a black list of every person connected to, or involved with 22Cans/Godus seems a bit harsh. I'm sure you'd not enjoy being held accountable for someone's misgivings or wrongdoings simply because you once did business with them; I mean, are you going to ostracize their internet provider, or the electric company for providing services to them for monetary exchange? Ok, that's a bit of a stretch, but it makes the point. I guess. *shrug*
No, not the electric company, just the people that actually put work toward knowingly defrauding and lying to the public.
When they realise I think they tend to up sticks and leave, or they are just there to pay the bills. If you worked somewhere and your boss asks you to do something without seeing the full picture, you would do it right? if you didn't you'd be ask to leave/dismissed/be replaced by someone in the same position. As far as most seem at 22cans, they are there to create a game albeit a mostly free to play mobile one. That was Peters decision. |
|
|
|
Post by Spiderweb on Oct 7, 2015 19:38:11 GMT
Anyway can we go either back on topic - tweets about the trail, or can I request the thread be locked. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gmr Leon on Oct 7, 2015 19:58:43 GMT
There are some people who were working hard to improve things for the game and who were regularly raising concerns over certain decisions and I feel it'd be absolutely unreasonable to turn Godus into a type of permanent Scarlet Letter on a person's portfolio. prove or it never happend Have you already forgotten their helping of us in trying to get through to Jack and Peter? Do you really think that would have gone anywhere without their pressing forward on our behalf? George and Matthew were among the few that gave a damn about us at 22cans while there. Now, I'm not sure who cares about us there anymore since Fabs left. I'd like to think Konrad and his small band do, but hell if we can tell anymore, courtesy of their renewed loose lips sink ships policy. |
|
Aron
Master
Posts: 125
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198023768234/
|
Post by Aron on Oct 9, 2015 11:29:30 GMT
prove or it never happend Have you already forgotten their helping of us in trying to get through to Jack and Peter? Do you really think that would have gone anywhere without their pressing forward on our behalf? George and Matthew were among the few that gave a damn about us at 22cans while there. Now, I'm not sure who cares about us there anymore since Fabs left. I'd like to think Konrad and his small band do, but hell if we can tell anymore, courtesy of their renewed loose lips sink ships policy. they said they have done it but we dont know excatly what is was so this is not really a prove and dont forget they have done a million time the shitty PR speech. like i said somewhere else if i know i work for such a suspicious company then i should have the balls and quit the job because i wanna be able to see my face in the mirrio without to puke everytime
sry for my bad english but i hope it good enough to understand what i mean
|
|
Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
|
Post by Lord Ba'al on Oct 9, 2015 12:54:26 GMT
I think it is clear enough what you mean.
|
|
|
|
Post by 13thGeneral on Oct 13, 2015 17:16:35 GMT
Have you already forgotten their helping of us in trying to get through to Jack and Peter? Do you really think that would have gone anywhere without their pressing forward on our behalf? George and Matthew were among the few that gave a damn about us at 22cans while there. Now, I'm not sure who cares about us there anymore since Fabs left. I'd like to think Konrad and his small band do, but hell if we can tell anymore, courtesy of their renewed loose lips sink ships policy. they said they have done it but we dont know excatly what is was so this is not really a prove and dont forget they have done a million time the shitty PR speech. like i said somewhere else if i know i work for such a suspicious company then i should have the balls and quit the job because i wanna be able to see my face in the mirrio without to puke everytime
sry for my bad english but i hope it good enough to understand what i mean
And, as we've seen over the last several years, many of them did quit. Sam, Matt, and George did what they could and - for all intents and purposes as far as we know - tried their damnedest to hold it together; but eventually the reality of how bad things were beyond their control or influence set in and they did exactly what you're suggesting someone do in that situation - cut their losses and sever their ties with the company. Whether it took them weeks or a year to do so is really irrelevant. As much of a boyscout as I am, I cannot hold the accountability or responsibility of the company's actions to those employees that did a job to the best of their ability, despite the management and executives running a shady racket. |
|
|
|
Post by Drake on Oct 13, 2015 18:49:40 GMT
Seriously? Whether it took them a week or a year to quit? How about some accountability and integrity for personal actions? You absolutely hold employees responsible for "company's" actions. The company simply does not act, a company is not some omnipotent being. Employees act. If employees say "No, I think this is unethical, I will not do this", then that action will not happen without someone doing it.
If it took an employee a year to realize that they were scamming people, then they are imbeciles. I would understand it if 22 cans was made up of thousands of employees, each playing a small tiny part in the scheme and not seeing the big picture. 22 cans is two dozen (or less, depending on time) people. They each know what is happening, not only due to the small size of the company, but the media articles, and numerous, numerous customer complaints. They could and did see what the "company" was doing, aka, what each of their actions was producing.
Yes, I will go and make a simile to an Auschwitz concentration camp, as that's the only way some people can understand. If one of the Auschwitz camp's "employees" said "I will not do this, this is wrong and unethical", and walked away, I would not hold that person responsible at what happened in the concentration camp. Would those atrocities still happen, sure. But that person, he would not hold the blame. However, if it took that person a year to say "No", and walk away, I would absolutely hold him responsible for being a cog in that "company, aka camp", and therefore facilitating and contributing to the atrocities.
A company is made up of employees. Employees that perform actions to accomplish the common goals. The only question is, did they know what they were doing is accomplishing a goal of swindling people and defrauding the customers. In 22 cans case, due to the small size of the company, the media coverage and the wide spread customer complaints, I would venture that every single employee knew what was going on.
|
|
|
|
Post by morsealworth on Oct 13, 2015 19:02:31 GMT
Drake, you need to learns some psychological basics including peer pressure. Companies really are entities separate from employees or, rather, including them as system elements. And the whole system holds way more weight than a single employee.
|
|
|
|
Post by tt on Oct 13, 2015 19:53:40 GMT
I don't remember much of sam or matt, but george sure as hell didn't seem like someone who was on our side. Specially at the end of his 22cans career. There were plenty of "this is just sad and borderline insulting" moments. Dave probably had no idea what he was doing in the "pr" department and the two latest "vocal" additions to the team are just... *let's not get this comment deleted*. And lastly let's not forget the faithful orange dudes who still "believe" in this game after everything that happened.
Anyhow, my point being that there are some people whos names deserve a spot next to Peters, either due to incompetence or just being fine with people getting screwed over.
Why should I forget or forgive while most of the people involved show no remorse and just continue doing what they've been doing since the beginning. Sure, let's give the cleaning lady and the guy who installed the air conditioning a pass, but people for actively participated in the games development probably shouldn't be let off the hook.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lady Macbeth on Oct 14, 2015 9:48:07 GMT
Anyway, bankruptcy is right around the corner.....!
|
|
|
|
Post by colin22cans on Oct 14, 2015 11:30:42 GMT
Anyway, bankruptcy is right around the corner.....! It is?  |
|
|
|
Post by Spiderweb on Oct 14, 2015 12:03:16 GMT
Anyway, bankruptcy is right around the corner.....! It is? why is there no steam updates (non-game ones)? |
|
|
|
Post by colin22cans on Oct 14, 2015 12:11:18 GMT
they said they have done it but we dont know excatly what is was so this is not really a prove and dont forget they have done a million time the shitty PR speech. like i said somewhere else if i know i work for such a suspicious company then i should have the balls and quit the job because i wanna be able to see my face in the mirrio without to puke everytime
sry for my bad english but i hope it good enough to understand what i mean
And, as we've seen over the last several years, many of them did quit. Sam, Matt, and George did what they could and - for all intents and purposes as far as we know - tried their damnedest to hold it together; but eventually the reality of how bad things were beyond their control or influence set in and they did exactly what you're suggesting someone do in that situation - cut their losses and sever their ties with the company. Whether it took them weeks or a year to do so is really irrelevant. As much of a boyscout as I am, I cannot hold the accountability or responsibility of the company's actions to those employees that did a job to the best of their ability, despite the management and executives running a shady racket. People come and go from companies all the time. Game developers more so than people realise - 22cans is a small company and one often in the public eye because of certain team members. That will mean that people will scrutinise the smallest of details about people coming, going or even being let go when most of the time, there's nothing really there to read into. That's not some " shitty PR speech" that's generally just how it is. Anyone remember Becky? Programming intern at 22cans? Becky recently joined the Playtronic team developing Yooka-Laylee!  There's no shady racket (from what I can see anyway  ) and all our executives are, at nearly all times, working in among the rest of the staff. For example, Paul - Head of Art and one of the executives, works bang in the middle of the Art department - it's a very fluid working environment. Simon acknowledged that there was issues in the past and that's something that he's been working on, bringing a more unified structure to every part of the company and business side of things. |
|
heggers
Master
Posts: 203
Pledge level: Partner
|
Post by heggers on Oct 14, 2015 12:26:28 GMT
Anyone remember Becky? Programming intern at 22cans? Becky recently joined the Playtronic team developing Yooka-Laylee! Anyone here actually care about Becky? I think we're more interested by how 22Cans keep going back on their promise of keeping backers and Early Access supporters in the loop |
|
|
|
Post by colin22cans on Oct 14, 2015 13:39:20 GMT
Anyone remember Becky? Programming intern at 22cans? Becky recently joined the Playtronic team developing Yooka-Laylee! Anyone here actually care about Becky? I think we're more interested by how 22Cans keep going back on their promise of keeping backers and Early Access supporters in the loop That wasn't really the main point of that post. We've been posting regular updates and as I have mentioned before, getting extremely close to a significant release of Godus. There is no need for panic after a short spell of no news, that's how development is. I don't think Simon or myself have gone back what we've previously said. In fact, we actually post more public updated regarding development and design than a lot of other development projects in Early Access or Kickstarter. The studio playthrough we had last Friday was successful and the team are in a polishing stage for the Opt-In release. The next update (Announcement & Game) that we publish will be a pretty big one and a significant milestone in the development of Godus. I've played a fair amount of the game over the last couple of weeks, gathering assets and understanding everything better so that when it does launch, I'll better understand reactions and feedback posted. |
|
) and all our executives are, at nearly all times, working in among the rest of the staff. For example, Paul - Head of Art and one of the executives, works bang in the middle of the Art department - it's a very fluid working environment. Simon acknowledged that there was issues in the past and that's something that he's been working on, bringing a more unified structure to every part of the company and business side of things. 
Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
Aug 21, 2024 19:32:37 GMT
