|
|
Post by 13thGeneral on Jan 13, 2016 19:36:05 GMT
I though this seemed relatable to Godus. 42 minutes of TotalBuscuit ranting about game description terms that he feels are overused, misused, or just no longer applicable. - Pay-2-Win
- Cinematic
- Overrated
- Rogue-Like
- Beta
|
|
|
|
Post by morsealworth on Jan 14, 2016 5:47:29 GMT
Cinematic are very good as derogatory term for games that fail to deliver proper gameplay.
|
|
Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295 
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
|
Post by Matthew Allen on Jan 21, 2016 23:29:38 GMT
Are than any recommended replacements for some of these terms? Terms exist as a sort of shorthand descriptor when it comes to these sorts of things. Some of these terms have definitely become convoluted and lost their meaning over time (I'm looking at you, 'beta'), but for games that are indeed rogue-like, is there a more accurate preferred term for games in which death is permanent? Likewise with pay-2-win, is there a better recommended phrase for describing a free-to-play game that's intentionally balanced so as to undermine the players? No snark is intended by any of this; I genuinely find this interesting.  |
|
|
|
Post by Gmr Leon on Jan 22, 2016 6:08:59 GMT
Are than any recommended replacements for some of these terms? Terms exist as a sort of shorthand descriptor when it comes to these sorts of things. Some of these terms have definitely become convoluted and lost their meaning over time (I'm looking at you, 'beta'), but for games that are indeed rogue-like, is there a more accurate preferred term for games in which death is permanent? Likewise with pay-2-win, is there a better recommended phrase for describing a free-to-play game that's intentionally balanced so as to undermine the players? No snark is intended by any of this; I genuinely find this interesting. Roguelike: w/o permadeath: randomized/procedural death gauntlet. w/ permadeath: same but permadeath gauntlet. Pay to win: pay for inconvenience removal? Cumbersome, but captures the gist more precisely. Setting it in the negative is best, as pay for convenience sounds too much like what we do already with things in life, so why complain, and adding "virtual convenience" is about as cumbersome as the negative anyway, so might as well stick to the negative. Cinematic could easily be replaced with the more accurate technical term, scripted, as that's precisely what most of those cinematic moments are anyway, and scripting often removes player agency in some way. Even if it's so much as ambient dialogue from passing the camera over something instead of making the player examine it, for instance. Overrated is somewhat iffy, but I feel like it's just another way to refer to popular (or simply, pop) games. Call of Duty, Fallout, Battlefield, The Witcher, Dying Light, and so on could very easily be called overrated, but more realistically they're just pop games. Some put a little more into the artistry or distinct gameplay than others (e.g. Witcher's narrative, Dying Light's parkour), but since they're still pretty well-received and known to the point of over-hearing about them, they've become pop games. (Same with the Souls games and Bloodborne.) Gaming has gotten big enough now where it just makes sense that more abstract genres like that that don't only encapsulate what you do in them would emerge. At least, I tend to think so. |
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Jan 22, 2016 7:48:13 GMT
Are than any recommended replacements for some of these terms? Terms exist as a sort of shorthand descriptor when it comes to these sorts of things. Some of these terms have definitely become convoluted and lost their meaning over time (I'm looking at you, 'beta'), but for games that are indeed rogue-like, is there a more accurate preferred term for games in which death is permanent? Likewise with pay-2-win, is there a better recommended phrase for describing a free-to-play game that's intentionally balanced so as to undermine the players? No snark is intended by any of this; I genuinely find this interesting. I think "beta" could be rehabilitated with some discipline about an accepted definition. I think everyone understands that beta means something that is mostly content complete and needs testing to ensure for stability, balancing and other stuff that is non obvious with small scale testing. That is what I have always understood it to mean. The problem is that some developers (yes I mean you know who) have played loose and free with the language to disguise the state of their product. This isn't a language problem it is an honesty problem, they knew what they were doing, they knew it was dishonest and they did it anyway.
Alpha comes before Beta and perhaps we need a pre alpha stage which covers the "we don't really have any clue of what we are doing" stage. Maybe it is just because Im outside the industry but I didn't have an issue with the alpha/beta language and their meaning until developers started trying to sell games before they were complete under this label. This really is an issue of transparency rather than language. Language is a funny thing, it generally works fine until some asshole tries to exploit it.
I always thought rogue-like referred to a graphical style for example dwarf fortress. I think that rogue like is not a helpful way to describe anything.
Pay-2-win is difficult but it is after all a subjective criticism rather than a brand. If we understand that pay-2-win is somebodies value judgement then surely it is ok to use. Having said that I think if you bandy pay-2-win around you should be prepared to defend your use of it.
Cinematic strikes me as completely pointless now days, I remember when saying cinematic about a game actually differentiated it.
Im not sure what the complained about overrated is? Are we saying we cant say something is overrated?
|
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Jan 22, 2016 7:55:12 GMT
To be honest I think there might be a greater imperative to stop selling games before they are complete. I think this gravy train is about done. There have been some amazing games developed under kickstarter/early access such as kerbal space programme that deserve to live and probably would never have lived otherwise, but for all the successes there are too many scams and failures. I don't believe the market can continue indefinitely without a correction. If the standard of behaviour doesn't improve people will just stop buying.
This is a bit OT but I think it is germane to the issue of beta/alpha.
|
|
|
|
Post by morsealworth on Jan 22, 2016 9:12:48 GMT
Likewise with pay-2-win, is there a better recommended phrase for describing a free-to-play game that's intentionally balanced so as to undermine the players? There's a term "paywall". I propose we take the term further and call such games "paycastles". P.S. Mind my avatar. |
|
|
|
Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 8, 2016 4:22:52 GMT
Are than any recommended replacements for some of these terms? Terms exist as a sort of shorthand descriptor when it comes to these sorts of things. Some of these terms have definitely become convoluted and lost their meaning over time (I'm looking at you, 'beta'), but for games that are indeed rogue-like, is there a more accurate preferred term for games in which death is permanent? Likewise with pay-2-win, is there a better recommended phrase for describing a free-to-play game that's intentionally balanced so as to undermine the players? No snark is intended by any of this; I genuinely find this interesting. Terminology, and all language really, is fluid and always evolving because humans are creative and chaotic - thus meanings and utilization ebb and flow accordingly. It's really fascinating. What I wonder is, how can any words 'replace' these terms - wouldn't 'replacing' them just be useless anyhow since they would essentially refer to the same thing? The meanings may be convoluted, or changed, but it's all cyclical and ever morphing. We'd just tire, eventually, of the new terms, when in fact it's the 'thing' they refer to that we feel negative towards. |
|
Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
|
Post by Matthew Allen on Feb 9, 2016 1:18:38 GMT
Are than any recommended replacements for some of these terms? Terms exist as a sort of shorthand descriptor when it comes to these sorts of things. Some of these terms have definitely become convoluted and lost their meaning over time (I'm looking at you, 'beta'), but for games that are indeed rogue-like, is there a more accurate preferred term for games in which death is permanent? Likewise with pay-2-win, is there a better recommended phrase for describing a free-to-play game that's intentionally balanced so as to undermine the players? No snark is intended by any of this; I genuinely find this interesting. Terminology, and all language really, is fluid and always evolving because humans are creative and chaotic - thus meanings and utilization ebb and flow accordingly. It's really fascinating. What I wonder is, how can any words 'replace' these terms - wouldn't 'replacing' them just be useless anyhow since they would essentially refer to the same thing? The meanings may be convoluted, or changed, but it's all cyclical and ever morphing. We'd just tire, eventually, of the new terms, when in fact it's the 'thing' they refer to that we feel negative towards. Indeed. As I've always said, words are inert. (Apologies for the deplorable video quality for an otherwise beautiful film.) |
|
