Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295 
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Feb 3, 2016 18:18:24 GMT
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 3, 2016 19:37:33 GMT
I think that's a well written article. Makes a lot of sense. Not much to add really. |
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Post by morsealworth on Feb 4, 2016 7:39:09 GMT
The last phrase says it all, I'm afraid.
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Post by hardly on Feb 4, 2016 8:46:35 GMT
I think IAP or micro transaction models work well in certain contexts. I think DOTA is an amazing example. I've probably spent $200 - $300 in DOTA all through in app purchases. DOTAs advantage is people play it intensively for a long time which makes it great for squeezing small amounts of money from them slowly.
I don't think in app purchases can be a substitute for a purchase price in all game types. You cant block off content or create pay to win scenarios. I already think the season passes that are coming out now where you need to buy two season passes worth almost the price of the game are extortion.
For the industry I think it makes more sense to focus on how you can sell a lower priced game to a really large number of people than a high priced game to a few people. If that lower price is bulked up with some cosmetic micro transactions I think that is a good idea. Since the distribution cost of a digital game is effectively $0, and the number of people potentially willing to buy it very large, the focus should be on maximising sales not individual sale revenue.
I think one of the problems with the IAP models you see in many games is they are one time things. If I discover a new IAP style of game I might play that iteration of it for a while and make some small purchases but I'm quickly immunised against the model once I can see the way its set up. This means that each IAP style game needs to be distinctly different. I didn't play fallout shelter because it was just too similar to other games like that I'd played. The article says it is good but for me I just couldn't be bothered going down that familiar path.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 4, 2016 12:18:07 GMT
To put this into context with Godus/Godus Wars, and from being one of the many who suggested such a thing: IAPs would be amazing for Godus in the right application*.
There are even ways to make IAPs acceptable to Kickstarter backers and Early Access customers alike. EVEN ON PC! (Bold claim, but I could do it.)
But since 22cans have been right arseholes about the whole matter I'll not give them this license to printing free money.
* - 22cans please note: This does not mean the actual name of the title.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 4, 2016 22:53:30 GMT
Oh, that's right. 22cans run like cretins away from anything logical and common sense, especially if it is suggested to them, as they have too much pride to take on suggestions offered by the unwashed masses of the public. These would also take planning, something anathema to 22cans unless it is to spring something nasty upon their customers (see: Godus Wars).
So here goes!
Like much else 22cans hasn't understood while instead chasing mobile fads, there are microtransaction models that have been around for a bit that most don't really mind at all because they don't really affect the game whatsoever - they aren't required to access part of the game and similarly are not part of an abusive design that urges microtransactions to temporarily alleviate the intrinsic suck put into the design.
Cosmetics. Yeah, simple as that. As Konrad pointed out about the holiday-themed material, it only takes a really, REALLY small time to make these items. With a bit of forethought towards where 22cans are heading with the combat, multiplayer, then something more to differentiate followers - something more personal than the small handful of deities offered - could be easily made and put into the game with a minimal amount of fuss and potentially more purchases than sectioning off game content behind paywalls.
So you could have a Pirate civilisation fighting a Ninja civilisation. Or nekomimi fighting the kuromimi. Make them live in giant cat huts with balls of yarn for surrounding scenery filler. Terrain colour, tree/rock styles, etc. could also be added. Make it entirely a la carte with some bundles on discount and let the players go wild like Team Fortress 2.
All sorts of possibilities that allow a player to customise their own civilisation in the game - if there were anyone competent in production to afford design some basic sense, that is.
A pity the CEO and PR seem more intent on killing what little credibility 22cans had remaining than anything sane.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 5, 2016 3:33:55 GMT
Oh, that's right. 22cans run like cretins away from anything logical and common sense, especially if it is suggested to them, as they have too much pride to take on suggestions offered by the unwashed masses of the public. These would also take planning, something anathema to 22cans unless it is to spring something nasty upon their customers (see: Godus Wars). So here goes! Like much else 22cans hasn't understood while instead chasing mobile fads, there are microtransaction models that have been around for a bit that most don't really mind at all because they don't really affect the game whatsoever - they aren't required to access part of the game and similarly are not part of an abusive design that urges microtransactions to temporarily alleviate the intrinsic suck put into the design. Cosmetics. Yeah, simple as that. As Konrad pointed out about the holiday-themed material, it only takes a really, REALLY small time to make these items. With a bit of forethought towards where 22cans are heading with the combat, multiplayer, then something more to differentiate followers - something more personal than the small handful of deities offered - could be easily made and put into the game with a minimal amount of fuss and potentially more purchases than sectioning off game content behind paywalls. So you could have a Pirate civilisation fighting a Ninja civilisation. Or nekomimi fighting the kuromimi. Make them live in giant cat huts with balls of yarn for surrounding scenery filler. Terrain colour, tree/rock styles, etc. could also be added. Make it entirely a la carte with some bundles on discount and let the players go wild like Team Fortress 2. All sorts of possibilities that allow a player to customise their own civilisation in the game - if there were anyone competent in production to afford design some basic sense, that is. A pity the CEO and PR seem more intent on killing what little credibility 22cans had remaining than anything sane. Damn, that would have been a fantastic game if additions like such as you describe were incorporated instead of the blatant garbage 22Cans has developed. We suggested countless ways they could have done this far better way back before it was even available on Steam, and then even further afterwards. They ignored every ounce of that feedback, among a plethora of other valuable player suggestions, to deliver one iteration after another of complete bollocks. I seriously have no idea how they presumed any of it was acceptable, as well as how amazingly (seemingly) unaware, transparent, and ridiculous their antics have been. It's just unfathomable. |
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Post by hardly on Feb 5, 2016 4:53:16 GMT
Oh, that's right. 22cans run like cretins away from anything logical and common sense, especially if it is suggested to them, as they have too much pride to take on suggestions offered by the unwashed masses of the public. These would also take planning, something anathema to 22cans unless it is to spring something nasty upon their customers (see: Godus Wars). So here goes! Like much else 22cans hasn't understood while instead chasing mobile fads, there are microtransaction models that have been around for a bit that most don't really mind at all because they don't really affect the game whatsoever - they aren't required to access part of the game and similarly are not part of an abusive design that urges microtransactions to temporarily alleviate the intrinsic suck put into the design. Cosmetics. Yeah, simple as that. As Konrad pointed out about the holiday-themed material, it only takes a really, REALLY small time to make these items. With a bit of forethought towards where 22cans are heading with the combat, multiplayer, then something more to differentiate followers - something more personal than the small handful of deities offered - could be easily made and put into the game with a minimal amount of fuss and potentially more purchases than sectioning off game content behind paywalls. So you could have a Pirate civilisation fighting a Ninja civilisation. Or nekomimi fighting the kuromimi. Make them live in giant cat huts with balls of yarn for surrounding scenery filler. Terrain colour, tree/rock styles, etc. could also be added. Make it entirely a la carte with some bundles on discount and let the players go wild like Team Fortress 2. All sorts of possibilities that allow a player to customise their own civilisation in the game - if there were anyone competent in production to afford design some basic sense, that is. A pity the CEO and PR seem more intent on killing what little credibility 22cans had remaining than anything sane. Those are great ideas Mandrake. A dinosaur civilisation would sell amazingly.
If its a multiplayer game then cosmetics/skins would sell amazingly as people want to differentiate themselves and show off their bling. Unfortunately for 22Cans you need to build a great multiplayer game before you can start reaping the rewards. From what I've read and what I've seen the game just doesn't have the quality foundations to support cosmetic microtransactions.
While this point is specific to GODUS you can make it general. If you want to do micro transactions well you have to create something that people love and then they will give your money for little things that enhance it. You cant follow the 22Cans model and make something half-arsed and then try to ram micro transactions down the throat of people who are already unhappy with what you have done.
I think consumers know that games that rely on microtransactions need some support over time through purchases. If you look at WoW or DOTA or other games people don't mind buying something cool for the game as a way of helping support something they love. I remember when Blizzard released a Pegasus made up for star constellations (ironyca.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/11005-22.jpg) for $35US. Completely cosmetic item, ridiculously overpriced and when in a raid of 20 people I'd see several people with this item.
But you will never get people to buy items for a game they don't like. You will never get them to buy them for a game they play for 3 hours and put down. You will never get them to buy it for a game they don't like. So personally I think they suit a very specific type of game. GODUS could have been this game had it been a popular and persistent multiplayer game. Unfortunately it is not popular, it is not persistent, and it is not multiplayer.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 5, 2016 6:21:53 GMT
The thing that really messes with me about 22cans is how they completely despoil every opportunity they have been given by the talent around them. Personnel issues aside, I really have to wonder how a developer can find themselves upon Steam and be so steadfastly clueless about it.
(A problem not entirely exclusive to 22cans.)
Here you are, on a platform that offers huge exposure on top of press, with perhaps the largest collection of modders assembled in video games ever. With a reputation already in place...it should have been easy as hell to have just walked in and become a community darling.
A perfect opportunity for some more positive PR - offering community competitions for new themes, much like how TF2 does their additions from the community Workshop. I've mentioned before how brilliant it would be if folks could select the holiday themes at their own whim - this allows those who prefer certain styles to enjoy them for longer while those who do not like them (such as with the Easter reception) to turn them off if they so desire.
This could be expanded upon so people could create/pick their own Nationality-themed, or Religion of their choice/creation (*cough*Kickstarter - give those who backed the game this item for free, others could purchase for a small bit*cough*), or artistic styles (like Art Deco, Googie, etc.) from those offered.
Sending a Full English out to war across the breakfast table!
Pie vs Cake!
There is ALREADY a market - literally as in a place to buy and sell these things - on Steam for cosmetics. Thriving. I didn't mind putting down a bit of cash for an Archimedes bird. Or a few of the other items in the 12 pages of TF2 items I've managed to acquire. There are many pages of similar that have a sizable following on Steam - provide them a good experience and you'll likely keep them.
If anything, "Godus Wars" should have been released F2P with a note to get ready for when the multiplayer arrives, finances bolstered by a few cosmetic items for sale as people show off their relatively individual followers in both Godus and Godus Wars in screenshots. This would have also offered the framework to implement a lot of the other Kickstarter rewards...including those 22cans haven't really mentioned in a year or so - including the addition of exclusive cosmetics for backers and EA customers as a special thanks they could apply to their followers in-game.
22cans is really more of a case of "Please join the rest of us in the 21st century, particularly the second decade." Their poor business methods and what they knew of microtransactions actually harmed Godus with rotten design at the core, rather than being something that helped its popularity like cosmetic items do for so many other games.
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