Mandrake
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The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 7, 2016 17:53:50 GMT
Outside of 22cans saying it themselves, it seems like a fairly obvious an elephant in the room - so of course I'm going to point it out. From taking a closer look at the design, and especially the obvious paywall-baiting that has likely been what turned whatever merits the original design might have had into simplistic rubbish, Godus Wars is clearly headed towards mobile. I would say that it looks like there is already a native mobile version and the PC version is simply a prettier menu/map laid over top. The "second application window" is perhaps the biggest indication - what you're initially executing is a launcher that prepares some data to pass to the real "Godus Wars". You just don't see the mobile version's menus and map screen, and PM can continue to say that there is no store in the PC version as the launcher would bypass the parts in the mobile game where purchases take place. After seeing all the obvious points for microtransactions to be inserted along with mobile mechanics, because 22cans has never really seen fit to separate mobile and PC mechanics...yeah, $5 for a continent might seem like a "good deal" compared to their other plans, which appeared to be something like $5 a unit or for a map pack. Unlockable maps, consumable cards, and the dropping of editor support/access from the main menu/Steam Workshop. There you go, PC users - you got a map screen to again test 22cans' latest F2P product, a "privilege" you were expected to pay many times over when you're still owed a full game, and what little different 22cans did give you at one time seems to have been taken away. So I suppose the question we should be asking along with "When/If Godus Wars will be updated?" is "When is this coming to mobile?" (I could find one thing positive to say about this whole thing, in that it doesn't appear to penalise you for not playing for a while on mobile as "vanilla Godus" does.)
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Post by nickthesane on Feb 8, 2016 12:31:33 GMT
Looking at the normal timescale for 22Cans I would say December . Normally would have said sooner but with Godus only having an incompetent skeleton crew working on this game I can't see this being quick
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Post by Crumpy Six on Feb 8, 2016 12:56:24 GMT
Some of the GUI in Godus Wars feels mobile-oriented, but that might be because 22Cans doesn't know any better. It doesn't feel like it's optimised to use with a mouse.
I am sure it will end up on mobile sooner or later.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 10, 2016 4:20:57 GMT
For one GUI example, take a look at the Options menu.
Click on the volume bars. Instead of by a percentage slider it's by 1/4 increment per tap/click.
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Post by vv on Feb 11, 2016 6:05:23 GMT
They have a fairly captive mobile market. I seems fairly obvious that they want to reuse the art as much as possible and also changing styles now means extra design costs. Don't forget that peter has outsourced a number of his designers now. Any new art styles are going to cost them most than just saying "give us more in the same style as last time".
Also money. Milking mobile more is obviously what's going to happen withe china market. I've just suprised they stopped updating generic godus so much since they got the china deal going.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 11, 2016 7:24:38 GMT
They have a fairly captive mobile market. I seems fairly obvious that they want to reuse the art as much as possible and also changing styles now means extra design costs. Don't forget that peter has outsourced a number of his designers now. Any new art styles are going to cost them most than just saying "give us more in the same style as last time". By reading over 22cans' Facebook and Twitter, the mobile audience have been a bit annoyed at the lack of anything resembling an update and being left at a pretty bad point. Considering most of 22cans' audience on mobile aren't the type to play an RTS (remember, "zen-like"), or have already found better than what Godus Wars promises to fail at, then there appears to be a problem as 22cans Catch-22'd themselves by going off to work on a spin-off that is wholly inferior in the genre they are crossing into. Not that surprising, once they started development upon the spin-off. Oh yes, it's a spin-off with even a mobile spin-off's name. Godus development is really over, as it has been for about the last year. Anything outside of general stability will continue to be failed to be added to Godus just like Godus Wars was failed to be the "Combat Update" to arrive to Godus itself. Let's see how "We prove our commitment to Godus by working on another title." works on the mobile audience...I doubt the Godus whales, the few still remaining, might budge.
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Post by vv on Feb 11, 2016 12:38:44 GMT
All I can say is I don't manage my studio like this in Game Dev Tycoon! You make sure a product is finished and release as many sequals as you can!
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 11, 2016 13:31:27 GMT
Who knows what the feedback from the Chinese market has been.
Maybe they said "this is da bom, don't ever change it".
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Post by vv on Feb 11, 2016 14:35:25 GMT
I have a feeling it may have gone horribly wrong. Otherwise there would be much, much, much more progress going on with the mobile app.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 19:21:06 GMT
Who knows what the feedback from the Chinese market has been. Maybe they said "this is da bom, don't ever change it". A family member of mine speaks fluent Chinese and often makes trips to and from. I might just ask him to do some investigative journalism if anyone is really curious.
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Post by greay on Feb 11, 2016 19:30:35 GMT
Who knows what the feedback from the Chinese market has been. Maybe they said "this is da bom, don't ever change it". A family member of mine speaks fluent Chinese and often makes trips to and from. I might just ask him to do some investigative journalism if anyone is really curious. Mandarin or Cantonese? I'm assuming the Godus China release is Mandarin, since that's a larger population.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Feb 11, 2016 21:51:19 GMT
Who knows what the feedback from the Chinese market has been. Maybe they said "this is da bom, don't ever change it". A family member of mine speaks fluent Chinese and often makes trips to and from. I might just ask him to do some investigative journalism if anyone is really curious. By all means! Would be good to know if Godus was ever even released in China. And do they have a Chinese godus.boards.net?
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Post by idem on Feb 11, 2016 22:44:24 GMT
I think if they wanted to release Wars on mobile, they'd have started on that platform. After the first release of Godus on Steam it's pretty risky for them to release anything on Steam now, who's user-base is ready to tear them a new one. And I think Wars's lack of players and review ratings shows that. It's almost financially suicidal to try Wars on PC. Makes me wonder why they tried at all.
Come to think of it, Godus already uses up most of the available memory on mobile devices. They probably couldn't add Wars to mobile if they wanted to.
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Post by vv on Feb 11, 2016 22:59:54 GMT
The unity Launcher uses about ~500kb of ram or there abouts. If required they could swap the code out for the menus. There is heaps and heaps of optimizations that can be done for these sorts of things but just arn't due to lazy. I'm sure peter is well aware of what he can get away with on such a platform from his time making populous 1 and 2. The current phones have more ram usually than an amiga 500 with out expansion ram and have much better gfx,cpu and sound. So far this game isn't really more complex than populous 2. The sculpting code needs serious clean up and refactoring etc and if they need to the textures etc can be compressed better I'm guessing if there is a ram trade off required. Really looking at this game there are many things that can be fixed and optimized.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 23:01:58 GMT
A family member of mine speaks fluent Chinese and often makes trips to and from. I might just ask him to do some investigative journalism if anyone is really curious. Mandarin or Cantonese? I'm assuming the Godus China release is Mandarin, since that's a larger population. Mandarin.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 23:05:17 GMT
A family member of mine speaks fluent Chinese and often makes trips to and from. I might just ask him to do some investigative journalism if anyone is really curious. By all means! Would be good to know if Godus was ever even released in China. And do they have a Chinese godus.boards.net? I've been curious whether it's actually named "Godus" at all.
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Mandrake
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The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 11, 2016 23:23:34 GMT
I think if they wanted to release Wars on mobile, they'd have started on that platform. After the first release of Godus on Steam it's pretty risky for them to release anything on Steam now, who's user-base is ready to tear them a new one. And I think Wars's lack of players and review ratings shows that. After the first release of Godus on Steam it was simply 22cans showing their arses to VALVe and their customers by chucking Godus again through the Eternally Alpha program; after that point everything else seems like supporting evidence. There really is no other explanation for 22cans obviously trying to compete with Citadels as worst RTS on Steam, as everyone who has reviewed the damn thing has come to the same conclusions. Since 22cans only really cares about mobile, then it would make sense to have a better impression for the audience 22cans expects to continually hand over money to them. Considering that there are STILL problems for Godus on mobile that annoys the hell out of their users (iOS especially), then it would make sense to put Godus Wars through a public playtesting phase before the real moneymaker. The whole controversy about PC microtransaction in a game they already paid for wouldn't really register with the mobile crowd, who are often used to paying more for a game after they've already bought it - mobile would just be receiving something "new"; if it were F2P they wouldn't generally care in what state it arrived aside from crashing as the audience's standards in general have been sufficiently crushed under an entire marketload of crap. If 22cans were intentionally looking for bad PR, because they don't intend to take one platform seriously while using the controversy as publicity, then can you think of a better what to acquire that and still look halfway legitimate to further abuse the EA program for free/paying testing? 22cans aren't being stupid about this, just evil, using the "It's shit!" marketing scheme - relying on those warning the industry about bad products/business practices for a bit of advertising. If Citadels and Godus Wars weren't so bad then the titles would have just existed as one of the multitude of mediocre people wouldn't have noticed. All that is left is for the meltdown Uwe Boll style when the house of cards (with stickers) collapses: www.salon.com/2015/06/09/kickstarters_greatest_triumph_making_uwe_boll_the_worlds_worst_director_disappear/Because PC simply doesn't matter to 22cans and never has - they've all been about chasing money, Fabs' blog post illustrated that along with Konrad's honesty that got him in trouble with Peter because the press exposed the dishonesty behind the company. They pointed out how Godus wasn't really intended to be anything but bait for mobile microtransactions - the big moneymaker that PM was so enamored with in dev speeches but somehow the company's financials don't reflect this. Anyways, financial suicide was long ago attempted for when 22cans had folks there drawing salary who appeared to have little to no use to the studio* while the studio churns out sub-par efforts for even a studio a fraction of the size. From what I've seen it looks like they might have about a year or so at best left to the company, so are trying for a Christmas Godus Wars release for mobile. "Godus Wars - now with more gameplay and less asinine pay-to-wait design than Godus!" * - Mostly in Production - why has Godus/Godus Wars needed TWO Producers when it looks like they didn't have any at all? Also, will The Trail ever be finished before the company faces insolvency, which in itself represents a significant chunk of studio manpower over the last year? That reason is probably why the combat maps are so small and simple, along with the AI that appears to not be remotely threatening in any way.
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Post by idem on Feb 11, 2016 23:54:43 GMT
Mandrake If Wars on Steam was indeed intended as a testing phase, then who's paying for the development during this phase? Wars was given away for free to the existing player base. And there's no reason to assume that there'd be many new adopters on Steam, given the reviews. You're saying they're trying to lose money on purpose? What for?
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 12, 2016 0:12:56 GMT
Mandrake If Wars on Steam was indeed intended as a testing phase, then who's paying for the development during this phase? Presumably the same people who were paying 22cans to hide the development on Godus Wars for about the last year while the rest of the studio worked on The Trail. Who were strung along about the whole "update coming to Godus" that turned out to be something 22cans can't even clearly identify as a sequel or spin-off or a completely different game; the story changes depending upon who from 22cans you ask. Free testing base while using those who might see what their friends are doing might be lured into buying the game, as per the social media aspect of Steam. Again: With mobile as the "moneymaker" then Steam Early Access was used as a paying testing ground to refine Godus for the real market. That was what 22cans did already with Godus and reaching "2.0" (somehow without having first reached an actual release candidate). So how is a repeat of what happened before that much of a surprise?
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Post by Qetesh on Feb 12, 2016 0:59:01 GMT
A family member of mine speaks fluent Chinese and often makes trips to and from. I might just ask him to do some investigative journalism if anyone is really curious. By all means! Would be good to know if Godus was ever even released in China. And do they have a Chinese godus.boards.net? Doesn't China have some Geo-locks on it's internet content?
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