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Post by Bob the Builder on Feb 9, 2016 3:07:11 GMT
Which ran a story about a man who was well trusted among his peers, yet was arrested and charged with bilking many thousands of dollars out of people in what has become known as a Ponzi scheme.
With a few obvious differences, the story read out much like the recent Godus Wars drama has.
Man makes wild claims to draw investors in. Man promises investors a return on their investment. Man fails to produce what was promised. Investors start to suspect something is up. Man brings in new investors with additional promises. Man tries to fool original investors into thinking their investment is producing while simultaneously making new promises to new investors. Man fails to produce what was promised yet again. Man gets caught, man goes to jail.
Take from this what you will. I'm not claiming laws have been broken, but I thought the similarities were striking.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Feb 10, 2016 17:24:02 GMT
The only real differences, with regards to that list of criteria, are that 22Cans at least produced something tangible, even if its not explicitly what was expected, and that said product was a mere "reward" in return for on our "investment" and not an actual return+interest. Otherwise, both these "schemes" do, on the most minimal observational surface level, have similarities in execution. One of the biggest issues with crowd funding - as opposed to financial investing - is that it still exists in a sort-of legal "grey area", in that the funds provided by the supporters (e.g. "investors") isn't solidly recognized as neither an investment, nor a donation; its more closely akin to a gift, typically with the implicit (but not always explicit) understanding that - in some instances - the "giver" receives nothing in return other than the knowledge your funds helped make a thing, or supported a cause, and in many instances "rewards" for providing the gift "IF" said project is successful in its intent. The legal system is having much difficulty defining, and therefore enforcing, exactly what this new form of "invest-donate-gifting" is and how it should be handled as far as the (individual Country) laws are concerned. Some reading for the informed crowdfund investor: And an interesting change in Us laws that may help guide future legal protections in crowdfunding; Changes To “Accredited Investor” Definition Recommended By SEC Staff; The Good, The Bad And The UglyWe would likely have a pretty tough time proving 22Cans had the intent to rip off thousands of people - without testimonials from employees and recorded proof, since they have produced a tangible product - whereas Ponzi schemes are generally pretty solid cases of fraud once they're exposed.
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Post by bed on Feb 24, 2016 11:45:06 GMT
I don't believe for a second there was bad intentions, they tried, they just failed and were out of their league. It was Peter blindly guiding some less experience people who trusted him and it just failed.
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Mandrake
Master
The Vault Boogeyman
Posts: 113
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Post by Mandrake on Feb 24, 2016 12:34:03 GMT
When someone pitches one thing and then really doesn't make much of an attempt to deliver upon what was pitched, to a degree that it seems that there were not even plans outside of a questionable roadmap, then it really matches up with PM's admissions in the RPS intervention that he was just trying to get money and saying anything to get it. The signing on with DeNA in DIRECT conflict with the Kickstarter pitch was basically another insult by 22cans to their backers, and according to PM's admissions he KNEW he would have needed more money from the start. For example, one easy Kickstarter backer reward: If there is a design document for Godus it's either in crayon or covered with so much NDA that...they couldn't release it anyways despite it being one of the Kickstarter backer tiers that should have been available years ago, like from the start. That they can't even produce the plans for what they are working on is the surest indication that 22cans had far from honourable intentions when creating the Kickstarter and the materials for it. Edit: Also, Fig.co is attempting to address many of the problems with crowdfunding. Naturally, this would exclude those looking to use it like 22cans did Kickstarter, because actual investment opens up a lot more Club Fed-friendly laws.
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Post by vv on Feb 24, 2016 16:25:16 GMT
The fact that 22cans won't even tell us what they've done in a week or month after they've designed it and tried it is telling enough. That tells me that the total lack of information from them is most likely NDA related because if it wasn't NDA related then they could at least do a "hey this is what we've rejected so far" kind of blog. That would satisfy most of us I think in regards to knowing that they are looking at feed back from us.
Things like "we tried what you suggested but found it just didn't work with what we might have planned" would be a good start to address the total lack of feedback from 22cans.
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