|
|
Post by greay on Aug 24, 2016 20:54:34 GMT
Alright, I've given it a more than reasonable amount of time, so let's assess the situation. On April 30, I let Simon know that I was going to make a public statement telling the community of my plans to stay on as a moderator in spite of there being no CM at that time and no active contact between the moderators and the company. Simon responded on May 3, telling us he had been abroad but would read the draft I had written later that day. On May 5 he returned to say things had been really busy at work and he'd reply shortly. On May 9 his answers to our questions came. The answers he gave weren't meant for the public but he told me to re-draft my statement and that I could use some of what he had said. He had proposed to bring in someone from production into the chat and I suggested this person could 'ok' my next draft for a public statement. On May 11, I posted my new draft. On May 12 Simon responded, saying he'd read it shortly. On may 13, having received no corrections to our draft, we posted it. While waiting for Simon, I posted some follow-up questions on May 17. Simon responded to the follow-up questions on May 23. He gave us more information but told us it was best not to share it. The issue of getting a producer into the chat remained in progress. On June 6 I request more information about the producer that was to become part of the chat. On June 20, I noticed that some new information about Konrad had gone public and suspected that some media attention was imminent. Muir expressed a desire to leave if Simon didn't respond soon. Simon responded from abroad. We discussed how to proceed and Simon handled it from there. I then asked about the producer again, and Simon said he was working on it. Simon returned on June 28 and talked about how things went with the media attention on Konrad's leaving. He also commented that the producer should really be in the chat already. He said he'd find out what's going on. I also inquired about the documentary and we argued a bit about the pros and cons of going public with more information. On August 1 I posted this recap of the events so far and added that I'd really love to be able to end on a more positive note. On August 8 I said that having received no revisions or additional information I assume that it would be ready to post as is. Simon replied that he hadn't had a chance to catch up with it yet immediately. Now on August 24 I said that having still received no corrections or revisions, I'll assume it isn't going to get any. The overall (subjective) impression this endeavor gives me is that there may be a discernible distinction between when Simon replies quickly, and when he doesn't. I feel that fear of the community's reaction to anything they might say or do is driving them to stall until the release of their next game. It's now likely their belief that it's best not to say anything at all. While I can understand how it got to be that way, I strongly disagree. But I also strongly feel that the stance the community at large takes on how to approach getting the change they are after does more harm than good. Rather than making communication better, we arrive at a stalemate. Both 'sides' are afraid to get burned, either by outrage or by disappointment. Further anger won't break the silence. Further silence won't stop the anger. Currently, the producer still isn't a part of the communications between the mods and the company. |
|
|
|
Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 25, 2016 7:21:09 GMT
It was bold of Aynen to post that. He must have known there could have been consequences from 22Cans, as Simon had made it clear that he wasn't comfortable with the information (however limited) being made public. Thanks for your courage, Aynen.
So Simon has been responding this whole time. That's interesting. I think it's a little funny that Aynen finally lost patience and went ahead with the post anyway, after just 16 days of silence in response to his last question. It's all very well getting frustrated with the communty for our negativity, but we don't have the benefit of this inside source so imagine how we feel after over 150 days of dead air.
22Cans reluctance to engage makes perfect sense at this point. PC Godus is no longer being supported. It is months since anyone from support or QA engaged with customers to respond to technical problems. It increasingly appears that mobile Godus is not being supported either. To allow this situation to fester is indefensible so why bother trying? This is an entirely separate issue to the lack of development and neglect of the community, and exploitation of Early Access.
Like all small businesses, 22Cans has two options: Get bought out or go bust. The only way they can sell is if the new game works out. Strategy: abandon Godus and give the new game everything they've got, and pray it works out.
|
|
|
|
Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 25, 2016 10:34:40 GMT
This comment I find to be completely unfair:
The community are evil. Mean. Outraged. Never give 22Cans a chance. Interpret everything with cynicism and disgust. Poor 22Cans, being thwarted at every turn by the uncompromising Community. Right?
No. Lots of efforts have been made to engage in constructive, good-faith communications with 22Cans. Much of which required members of the community to make a considerable investment of their personal time. Every time 22Cans has attempted to engage, while the feebleness of their responses have been criticised, the effort to share has always been appreciated and I think that's been made clear on every occasion.
The ball is very much in 22Cans court. There is literally nothing the community can do to improve communications, short of pretending that the present situation and the management of the project has been positive and successful (to try to tempt them out of the woodwork), which nobody is going to do because we aren't idiots.
|
|
|
|
Post by greay on Aug 25, 2016 10:52:09 GMT
It was bold of Aynen to post that. He must have known there could have been consequences from 22Cans, as Simon had made it clear that he wasn't comfortable with the information (however limited) being made public. Thanks for your courage, Aynen. How will 22cans ever know that he posted it? |
|
|
|
Post by Deth on Aug 26, 2016 0:17:13 GMT
I assume someone will pass it on to a friend in the press and it will be posted for the hits it will surely draw.
|
|
|
|
Post by earlparvisjam on Aug 26, 2016 5:01:25 GMT
Let me get this straight to make absolutely sure. Aynen is just now publicizing that he wrote up a post back at the end of April to announce that he was planning on staying on as moderator even though there is no CM. A producer was promised to start talking with moderators to fill in a communication gap between them and the company. That producer still hasn't shown up, the publicity about Moo's leaving made them uncomfortable, and 22Cans is reluctant to talk about anything until they release their new title for fear of public backlash.
Where's the news in that? They have no external communication. We know that already. That they fear public backlash for anything they say isn't news either. Anybody with half a clue could tell us that.
I guess the only news is that Aynen is still affiliated with this train wreck. The amount of mental gymnastics required to excuse any of this is staggering. If everyone else has left the building, the lights have been shut off, and all the food's been put away the party's over. It's not our fault he refuses to recognize the not-so-subtle hints that everyone's been giving him...
|
|
heggers
Master
Posts: 203 
Pledge level: Partner
|
Post by heggers on Aug 26, 2016 9:13:55 GMT
Hmm... reading Aynen's comments I think I'm starting to develop a very small spark of respect for both him and Muir... (don't worry I'm sure it won't go any further  ) I do disagree with his comments on a stalemate though Rather than making communication better, we arrive at a stalemate. Both 'sides' are afraid to get burned, either by outrage or by disappointment. There is no stalemate. We have nothing to lose here. With the exception of a few deluded souls I don't think any of us expect 22Cons to ever fulfill their promises. And if they think stalling further until the release of BeTrail (or however we're spelling it) will work in their favour... Well maybe they should take another look at the release of Godus Wars and see how that worked out for them |
|
|
|
Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 26, 2016 10:05:12 GMT
I am morbidly curious about the Trail, but it feels impossible that a company with 22Cans' record could produce a good game. Godus/Godus Wars missed every possible mark. It didn't meet any of its key functional specifications, it didn't achieve any of its deadlines, PR was a disaster, support was patchy and then non-existent and it didn't have the confidence of its own development team. Perhaps within the echo chamber of the 22Cans studio it is considered a successful title that was the victim of vindictive customers, but this is simply false.
|
|
|
|
Post by greay on Aug 26, 2016 10:11:30 GMT
Let me get this straight to make absolutely sure. Aynen is just now publicizing that he wrote up a post back at the end of April to announce that he was planning on staying on as moderator even though there is no CM. A producer was promised to start talking with moderators to fill in a communication gap between them and the company. That producer still hasn't shown up, the publicity about Moo's leaving made them uncomfortable, and 22Cans is reluctant to talk about anything until they release their new title for fear of public backlash. Where's the news in that? They have no external communication. We know that already. That they fear public backlash for anything they say isn't news either. Anybody with half a clue could tell us that. I guess the only news is that Aynen is still affiliated with this train wreck. The amount of mental gymnastics required to excuse any of this is staggering. If everyone else has left the building, the lights have been shut off, and all the food's been put away the party's over. It's not our fault he refuses to recognize the not-so-subtle hints that everyone's been giving him... If anything, the news is that even Aynen has reached the breaking point. But this is also confirmation (not that it's in any way surprising) that 22cans doesn't even communicate with the mods – which is something. |
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Aug 26, 2016 22:54:05 GMT
Crazy continues to get crazier.
Like Heggers I find myself with a little more respect for Aynen and Muir. But I also think Aynen comes to the wrong conclusions about the community/22Cans relationship for the reasons Crumpy says. The community may have been harsh with 22Cans at times but the fact is 22Cans is obligated to provide a product that meets their original specifications - space age anyone, something they have avoided at every turn.
The point Aynen misses is that they clearly aren't developing GODUS. All the comments about producers and what not a meaningless milestones that have nothing to do with concrete development. If they were secretly developing GODUS/GODUS Wars we would have seen an update by now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deth on Aug 27, 2016 0:15:44 GMT
I think most of us could have forgiven them some of the more, over the moon promises. If they had at least tried to give something closer to what they promised then what we ended up with. That and communicated reason earlier on rather then taking the whole "We know better then you" blind charge to what they thought we wanted or what Peter though he wanted.
As to the community being mean, it the internet! If you can not take flack from a troll or two get of the net. I have backed another game and just got a update from them about how he is "Getting off the net" and letting his partner handle the communication side of thing and going into a more programing mode just because he can not handle the flak they are getting because he game is taking so long. I have not gave them any flak but can respect him for not going "Well here is what I have. Take it, I am calling it done and going home." He is handing communications off to someone that can handle it and he is doing what he is good at.
Maybe if Peter had done that instead of trying to stand in the limelight all the time maybe we would have gotten something closer to what he promised.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 27, 2016 6:57:17 GMT
There is certainly no stalemate here. There is no community to speak of. Us? Seriously, being wary of us? When there's maybe ten or so of us at best? They've already made probably the majority of their backers write this whole wreck off at this point. The worst we could do, after trying our damnedest to be constructive, we've already done. We drew them out into the press' attention once more and let them get appropriately mauled for neglecting us, but more importantly, for neglecting their own fucking responsibilities.
Sure, maybe it was a bit too hasty with FuriousMoo only just getting things going on his work, but given what we could see at the time, it looked like it was heading where it ended up being. Another stopgap effort to appear as if they were fulfilling their commitments to the backers without any of the substance to back it up.
What's more, could any of us even really be all that upset anymore? I'm pretty sure at this point any outrage we might have, or have had, has been had, several times over at that.
Frankly, even though it wouldn't benefit anyone, I think many of us here would be content to see them simply fess up and say they fucked their backers and Early Access buyers over, and they're not going to finish the game, ever. No, they're not even going to try.
Practically none of us would be the least bit surprised by now. That writing has been on the wall basically for years now.
|
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Aug 27, 2016 9:59:14 GMT
There is certainly no stalemate here. There is no community to speak of. Us? Seriously, being wary of us? When there's maybe ten or so of us at best? They've already made probably the majority of their backers write this whole wreck off at this point. The worst we could do, after trying our damnedest to be constructive, we've already done. We drew them out into the press' attention once more and let them get appropriately mauled for neglecting us, but more importantly, for neglecting their own fucking responsibilities. Sure, maybe it was a bit too hasty with FuriousMoo only just getting things going on his work, but given what we could see at the time, it looked like it was heading where it ended up being. Another stopgap effort to appear as if they were fulfilling their commitments to the backers without any of the substance to back it up. What's more, could any of us even really be all that upset anymore? I'm pretty sure at this point any outrage we might have, or have had, has been had, several times over at that. Frankly, even though it wouldn't benefit anyone, I think many of us here would be content to see them simply fess up and say they fucked their backers and Early Access buyers over, and they're not going to finish the game, ever. No, they're not even going to try. Practically none of us would be the least bit surprised by now. That writing has been on the wall basically for years now. Exactly. They've walked away and we've given up caring. |
|
|
|
Post by Qetesh on Aug 28, 2016 6:33:45 GMT
Hmm... reading Aynen's comments I think I'm starting to develop a very small spark of respect for both him and Muir... (don't worry I'm sure it won't go any further ) I do disagree with his comments on a stalemate though There is no stalemate. We have nothing to lose here. With the exception of a few deluded souls I don't think any of us expect 22Cons to ever fulfill their promises. And if they think stalling further until the release of BeTrail (or however we're spelling it) will work in their favour... Well maybe they should take another look at the release of Godus Wars and see how that worked out for them I have to agree. I am not a "side". I was a person who gave a company money to do something and got lied to, misled, ignored, insulted and cheated. I won't forgot it and will never give anything PM or Simon is attached to a penny again. Other than that, I have life and I hope Karma hits them where the sun don't shine. |
|
|
|
Post by hardly on Aug 29, 2016 21:04:34 GMT
It seems to completely elude some people that many of these so called crazed critics of 22Cans were in fact Peter Molyneux biggest fans. For myself, I didn't actually stress about GODUS for several months after it was released. The game felt like it had potential but was content poor. My biggest complaint was sculpting and I figured they'd change it reasonably quickly given the complaints on the forum and Jacks later comments on the issue. How wrong I was.
After six months or so of waiting I got engaged in the GODUS Wars, and I don't mean the weird byproduct they released. It became apparent over time that the issues were not about recognising and acting on feedback. The rest of course is history.
|
|
|
|
Post by RobertMuldoon on Aug 30, 2016 11:54:52 GMT
My confirmation bias and I are pleased to see further evidence of Simon acting deplorably, even playing the Soonus card with his own voluntary staff. I don't get why he didn't just offer a straight answer from the get-go.
|
|
)
