Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Nov 18, 2017 18:22:26 GMT
It's been a while since I've said anything on these forums. I miss being part of the community as I've now worked at two companies that didn't really want their staff interacting with steam forums or other community groups. Well, now I can a bit, because I plan on making my own rules. For those of you that don't remember me, I'm the coder that left snac22 because of the free to play elements, and that was pretty much the only reason. I could not stand what Godus had become, but I was willing to give the next title a chance, but I was then told the next title was The Trail by a reporter in bilbao, and found out it was free to play from day one 100%. I was out. So, long story short, I worked in VR games at a nice (but still secretive) company called nDreams, and now work at Team17, but I feel it's time to try to start something. The need to make games is very strong, and I'm not getting to do that where I'm working, and doing it in spare time is almost impossible with children and 15 hours of commuting per week. I'm management these days, and I want to make more things with my hands. And want to do more than just code. Why this board? Why this sub board? Well, I wondered what you guys thought of a plan to start a company from a kickstarter. It's a massive longshot, and no-one who backed it would have any idea what they were going to get at the end of it, as no part of the company plan actually contains any specific games designs or suggestions. Have a look at www.clayfortress.com and see if you would like to see that kind of games company exist in the world. I am thinking that I'd run a campaign to raise enough to hire three people for a year, and produce enough games to begin to self-sustain in that time period. It's a crazy plan, but I've been wanting to do this for 8 years now, and this is the closest I've got so far. Other developers have managed to stick around long enough to get bonuses instead of stick around long enough to get into debt while keeping their employer in pocket, or have had the option to live at home and spend free time developing until the game is done, or just simply get lucky with knowing the right people, I'm not lucky in that way, but I'm also not giving up. I welcome comments of all sorts, including "it'll never work, because..." as long as I can use it to improve my life, and the lives of others, because I'm so very tired of working for others, and working on games that I don't morally agree with, and I think there are many others out there doing the same, just waiting for a chance to break free, and probably thousands, if not millions, of players waiting for the kind of strange, non-mainstream games we will almost certainly be making. Thanks for reading all the way to the end. If you contact me via clayfortress.com, I will add you to an announcement list if I get things started one way or another.
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Post by Qetesh on Nov 18, 2017 20:29:51 GMT
You have been missed. Long time no see. I finally bought myself a new computer and so this should be interesting indeed!
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Post by idem on Nov 19, 2017 3:02:30 GMT
Wow, I really love your mission statement, Fabs! I'd be quite interested in being a part of that on the music front. I really love how you view trial & error as an approach to development, and creating an environment where one can fail safely. I really hope it'll work!
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Post by 13thGeneral on Nov 19, 2017 6:44:02 GMT
Hey Raspofabs, welcome back. What a great inspirational statement, too. I'm definitely intrigued.
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liam
Wannabe
Posts: 25
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Post by liam on Nov 19, 2017 18:03:23 GMT
I am not quite sure what the plan would be with regard to the Kickstarter. Raising enough money to hire 3 people for a year is incredibly difficult if you don't have a claim to famous successful past projects, also it is unfortunate but your association with The Failure might harm you on KS (those who backed it can be incredibly mean, and they have been ignored for a long time, as soon as word gets around, you could end up becoming an outlet for them to hurl unjustified abuse at). On top of all this, how would you convince people to pledge to an unknown project (am I understanding this part correctly)? I don't know how familiar you are with the current state of Kickstarter but people are extremely wary of it these days. However, games companies do still use it successfully to drum up hype for their future releases, and you can still get pledges from people who are really convinced by your page. I ran a failed kickstarter in 2015 for Empires of the Undergrowth (its an ant game inspired by Dungeon Keeper). Here is the overview of the KS: www.kicktraq.com/projects/eotu/empires-of-the-undergrowth/Getting those 329 backers was hell, and I don't think it was a particularly weak campaign (though we did make some mistakes). The main feeling we got from it was that people didn't trust that we could actually deliver the product. We even had proper gameplay footage in updates where we described different systems - it was pretty fleshed out. To be fair, another problem was that we were targeting mobile devices and a lot of the interest was coming from PC gamers. In April the following year we ran another KS after switching to Unreal Engine, turning it quickly into a PC game and provided a demo. Here is the overview of that one: www.kicktraq.com/projects/eotu/empires-of-the-undergrowth-rise-of-the-colony/This went way better and even though we lowered our target, we got more than the original target. Still, getting that £18k involved the fanbase that we had built up over the past 6 months, and a month of no development whilst the 3 of us (3 devs on our project) tried to contact games media, youtubers, generate updates, learn how to use twitter and fb for promotion (and something called Stomt). It ended in a 24 hour live stream on twitch where we ate insects in exchange for funding milestones, that was a lot of fun actually. The point here is that we had a convincing video, a demo that everyone could play, and 3 people (albeit with no prior record and no marketing experience) trying to promote the game, and all we could amass was £18k. That is certainly not enough to pay your 3 developers for a year. I can only imagine that, with another 18 months passing since then and probably a load more burned Kickstarter backers who put money into failed indie games, it is even more difficult now. Maybe I misunderstood part of your plan, but it sounds like you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. I don't know what to suggest otherwise, perhaps somehow you could use your past affiliation with "snac22" to your advantage, but I don't know how that would look. Perhaps a series of AMAs on Reddit if you are allowed, they would certainly be popular and you could feel the pulse of the community. P.S. What was it like working with Peter "He Who Shall Not Be Named"? I will always remember him first for his work on Dungeon Keeper and Black and White
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Nov 21, 2017 11:02:29 GMT
I miss being part of the community as I've now worked at two companies that didn't really want their staff interacting with steam forums or other community groups. Hey, I was always keen for you to get involved with the community on forums etc.!
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Nov 21, 2017 16:47:03 GMT
I miss being part of the community as I've now worked at two companies that didn't really want their staff interacting with steam forums or other community groups. Hey, I was always keen for you to get involved with the community on forums etc.! Trying to get him to do your job for you huh?
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Post by 13thGeneral on Nov 21, 2017 17:23:30 GMT
I am not quite sure what the plan would be with regard to the Kickstarter. Raising enough money to hire 3 people for a year is incredibly difficult if you don't have a claim to famous successful past projects, also it is unfortunate but your association with The Failure might harm you on KS (those who backed it can be incredibly mean, and they have been ignored for a long time, as soon as word gets around, you could end up becoming an outlet for them to hurl unjustified abuse at). On top of all this, how would you convince people to pledge to an unknown project (am I understanding this part correctly)? I don't know how familiar you are with the current state of Kickstarter but people are extremely wary of it these days. However, games companies do still use it successfully to drum up hype for their future releases, and you can still get pledges from people who are really convinced by your page. I ran a failed kickstarter in 2015 for Empires of the Undergrowth (its an ant game inspired by Dungeon Keeper). Here is the overview of the KS: ... Some really good points of perspective.
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Nov 22, 2017 12:51:20 GMT
I am not quite sure what the plan would be with regard to the Kickstarter. Raising enough money to hire 3 people for a year is incredibly difficult if you don't have a claim to famous successful past projects, also it is unfortunate but your association with The Failure might harm you on KS. Even though I don't have many success stories, yet, I think that I might be able to get some momentum from the collective experience of the team members. We've got some interesting successful titles from different genres and scopes, including every member having done AAA dev on multi-million selling positive reviewed titles. Yes, me included. I worked on some good games too you know. It is true that the presentation of the value of the team is going to be very important for a kickstarter, so big thanks for reinforcing that point very clearly. P.S. What was it like working with Peter "He Who Shall Not Be Named"? I will always remember him first for his work on Dungeon Keeper and Black and White Oddly, working with him is still one of my fonder memories of game development. I didn't like where the company was going with its revenue stream choices, but I do like him. He's friendly, generally nice, and generous, but he's easily distracted and that can come off as rude sometimes. I do the same, go off on a different train of thought because of something that was said, and then get caught out not having listened to the last five minutes of the meeting. The best feature of Peter is that, more so than many people I have known, he knows what something can become. He sees potential in things that I might have dismissed, and also sees what the impact a thing will have, rather than how it feels right now. This is a great trait to have in a producer, or a game director, but I think he squanders it (or used to) by being a designer. Henry James once wrote: - What was the author trying to do? How well did he succeed? Was it worth it? Peter is able to answer the last question very well, without even seeing the full concept, and that's a great strength, as it leads to far fewer pointless features. I wonder if it's something you can learn to do, because it's a skill that would be invaluable at a place that makes as many games as I want to be making.
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Post by Spiderweb on Nov 23, 2017 16:02:43 GMT
It's been a while since I've said anything on these forums.... Just like to wish you good luck, fabs. You had always been one of the more interactive developers during goad-us and will definitely look into whatever game(s) you produce. The only reason I got into software development myself was to make games, alas I went down the wrong path and now a slave to the paycheck. My suggestion would be to try to blog some of you dev work, I'm sure that would generate interest in what you make. Even if you need to hide some of the concepts I think that stuff would be really interesting.
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Raspofabs
Former 22Cans staff
Posts: 227
I like: coding, high peat single malts, ... , yeah, that's about it.
I don't like: object oriented design, and liver.
Steam: raspofabs
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Post by Raspofabs on Nov 23, 2017 21:39:26 GMT
I think I already have this in the company plans somewhere, about "twitch"ing the development, or just blogging about everything we do. Most game development companies would have to worry about keeping things secret, but that doesn't make much sense for us, as we're going to be done and product out the door before a normal company can spin up a team to compete. Also, if there's one thing I've learned over the years, there's no point in keeping concepts secret really. The magic, the real secret sauce, is always in the implementation, and that comes from having a good team. Otherwise there could really be people who just have the ideas, and take 90%. You know, like the guy in the pub who wants to sell you their great idea about a GTA clone, but with giant rabbits. He only wants $100k for the idea, he knows you will make millions.
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