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Post by rubgish on May 21, 2014 12:38:50 GMT
EDIT: Link - Blog updateCopied from Monkeythumbz on the steam forums: So hopefully we should get a blog update & video today! Figured I'd get ahead of the game and make a thread so we can discuss them in one handy place. Personally i'm hoping that this will be the start of a whole raft of information that'll keep us occupied and maybe, just maybe, be the start of Godus turning into a genuine PC game rather than a mobile port. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 21, 2014 13:06:09 GMT
I'm getting a lot more interested in the content of the PC builds now. Now that the mobile release has gone out and has been established as a separate branch of development, maybe we can expect to see major divergence in content in the PC version.
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Post by Monkeythumbz on May 21, 2014 13:07:00 GMT
I'm getting a lot more interested in the content of the PC builds now. Now that the mobile release has gone out and has been established as a separate branch of development, maybe we can expect to see major divergence in content in the PC version. That will happen, but probably not until the end of the Summer at my rough reckoning. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on May 21, 2014 15:13:19 GMT
To the first point, I don't think anyone ever expected gold-plated documentation. But in any area of design, you do need a general idea of where you're going, even while allowing for enough freedom for emergent design. What is bizarre is that this company hasn't been able to give even a basic summation of what they're doing/what direction they're headed in, and it's been years, man. What's bizarre is that, while claiming open development and community involvement, they are crazy secretive and cryptic, then hit you with surprises nobody wanted or saw coming at all. BAM, Stickers!
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on May 21, 2014 15:22:00 GMT
Although now that I think about it, if people did expect gold-plated design documentation, it is probably because Peter stated that he had such documentation, and would release it as soon as he cleaned up the swear words on it, or something to that effect.
So, another self-created problem.
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stuhacking
Master
Posts: 170 
Pledge level: Partner
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Post by stuhacking on May 21, 2014 15:25:40 GMT
Although now that I think about it, if people did expect gold-plated design documentation, it is probably because Peter stated that he had such documentation, and would release it as soon as he cleaned up the swear words on it, or something to that effect. Each time a question is asked it either receives no answer, or a bizarrely unexpected and different answer than some previous iteration of the question. Perhaps 22Cans actually refers to the arrangement of the office space, wherein employees are seated inside 22 individually sealed cans and are unaware of each others activities... But getting back on topic- I hope that there has been a design document of some form up until this point. Agile Development certainly doesn't mean Agile Design, and Agile doesn't mean you just throw out other important engineering practices and start mashing keys. I'd be worried if there was no form of documentation about the projects goals, design, or architecture in the 22Cans offices... |
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Post by Monkeythumbz on May 21, 2014 15:35:48 GMT
But getting back on topic- I hope that there has been a design document of some form up until this point. Agile Development certainly doesn't mean Agile Design, and Agile doesn't mean you just throw out other important engineering practices and start mashing keys. I'd be worried if there was no form of documentation about the projects goals, design, or architecture in the 22Cans offices... That is why I'll be sharing a sprint doc later on today. |
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splitterwind
Master
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I don't like: Ignoring a unpleasant question or answering with something that is only loosely related or way to vague to actually answer something. Mods that Cherry-pick in discussions. Banning people for minor offenses.
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Post by splitterwind on May 21, 2014 15:48:24 GMT
But in any area of design, you do need a general idea of where you're going, even while allowing for enough freedom for emergent design. 22cans should be limited in their freedom by what they promised on kickstarter and other sources. On the steam forum it was said that they use "agile software development" but on the same thread it was also said that they aren't responsive to our feedback but peters feedback, who obviously doesn't care about our feedback. There should be a vision/general idea of Godus based on kickstarter, interviews etc. It doesn't explain why there isn't, why the current game differs so drastically from the vision they sold and why our feedback doesn't influence the game. Or why Peter can't publicly share his vision (or why he doesn't have at least a vague vision). Its like they had a pretty clear vision of Godus when they asked for our money but the further development goes the more obscurer and blurred their vision of Godus becomes. At the beginning they had no problem in sharing features (wind and weather simulation, tides, erosion, waterfalls...) but the further development goes the more secretive they become. And the further Godus moves away from the original vision that had been sold. That can't be easily explained or excused. The best excuse that 22cans could come with would be to claim that they tested and solely developed the mobile version so far and will now concentrate on the PC version + separated development and vastly different gameplay for both versions (just sharing things like sound, graphic and engine). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 16:02:50 GMT
Although now that I think about it, if people did expect gold-plated design documentation, it is probably because Peter stated that he had such documentation, and would release it as soon as he cleaned up the swear words on it, or something to that effect. So, another self-created problem. Indeed, seems quite hardish to have a design documentation of the product that is not finished. I don't know which version you could grab, the mobile one or the PC one ? Godus could still be in dev, after a first overall realease for the ages dev. "space age, etc..." |
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Post by julians on May 21, 2014 16:12:53 GMT
Maybe somebody should show Peter a video on agile development and product planning? Starting to code without any sort of design document or feature outline is a novice mistake at best and idiotic for experienced designer.
What's more likely is that Peter and Peter had a clear design document/vision of Godus, they knew it would get over well in KS and later with backer and decided to keep it secret. Probably pulled it out when signing mobile publisher. Seems unlikely a publisher would just put forth cash on empty promises, but I don't know the inner workings of game publishers.
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arryu
Senior Apprentice
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Post by arryu on May 21, 2014 16:16:26 GMT
Although now that I think about it, if people did expect gold-plated design documentation, it is probably because Peter stated that he had such documentation, and would release it as soon as he cleaned up the swear words on it, or something to that effect. So, another self-created problem. Indeed, seems quite hardish to have a design documentation of the product that is not finished. I don't know which version you could grab, the mobile one or the PC one ? Godus could still be in dev, after a first overall realease for the ages dev. "space age, etc..." I would grab the free one. OH WAIT TOO LATE. I already paid for the game. The now free game. Bleh, I will try to be quiet with my anger vomit. I apologize. On topic, yes the dev plans should have been available a long while ago, hopefully this info will help quell the frustration and uncertainty regarding the two. Hopefully I will be able to see that my $20 went somewhere meaningful. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on May 21, 2014 16:22:51 GMT
But in any area of design, you do need a general idea of where you're going, even while allowing for enough freedom for emergent design. 22cans should be limited in their freedom by what they promised on kickstarter and other sources. On the steam forum it was said that they use "agile software development" but on the same thread it was also said that they aren't responsive to our feedback but peters feedback, who obviously doesn't care about our feedback. There should be a vision/general idea of Godus based on kickstarter, interviews etc. It doesn't explain why there isn't, why the current game differs so drastically from the vision they sold and why our feedback doesn't influence the game. Or why Peter can't publicly share his vision (or why he doesn't have at least a vague vision). Its like they had a pretty clear vision of Godus when they asked for our money but the further development goes the more obscurer and blurred their vision of Godus becomes. At the beginning they had no problem in sharing features (wind and weather simulation, tides, erosion, waterfalls...) but the further development goes the more secretive they become. And the further Godus moves away from the original vision that had been sold. That can't be easily explained or excused. The best excuse that 22cans could come with would be to claim that they tested and solely developed the mobile version so far and will now concentrate on the PC version + separated development and vastly different gameplay for both versions (just sharing things like sound, graphic and engine). Yeah, it's interesting. Not gonna lie, I find the situation fascinating in a bad, schadenfreude-y visceral kind of way. Making a bad game, whatever, it happens. Good premise falls flat upon execution. Happens in books, happens in movies, happens with music, architecture, damn near anything I can think of. What's unique with Godus and 22cans is, from my perspective, how hilariously bad they are at customer interaction (no offense, George, you just got there). And yes, there's a world of difference between what the product currently is, and what was pitched. Invoking what are considered to be some of the classic benchmarks of compelling RTS games, and putting forth what any sensible person would recognize as a game with facebook/farmville mechanics? Wow. It's just on a whole other level. I haven't even played the game in over a month - the game is terrible as it stands right now. And that's interesting to me, too. Somehow I've played this game for 70 hours, yet I would recommend it to no one. I would describe it as a terrible game. This is crazy unique, to me. It's a spectacle. And I can't stop watching. |
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Post by rubgish on May 21, 2014 18:18:02 GMT
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Post by Monkeythumbz on May 21, 2014 18:21:13 GMT
Bloody hell, that was quick! |
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Post by rubgish on May 21, 2014 18:34:38 GMT
Bloody hell, that was quick! I got lucky, I wondered if it'd been put up and checked the blog, and there it was  With regard to the blog itself, I have a couple of questions: - How many sprints are ongoing at any given time?
- It looks like its a pretty obvious copy of the opening on B&W/B&W2, how much else is going to get copied and put into Godus?
- The wording of the blog suggests that this sprint is building on top of things we don't have yet "A new image of flying is stitch to end of existing sequence." - we don't have a sequence yet. How much further ahead is the in-house testing version compared to the opt-in version we can play at the moment?
- A lot of the screenshots look like the mobile version (i.e gem shop). Is this the case, or is the shop just enabled in dev-builds on the PC?
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
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Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on May 21, 2014 18:49:41 GMT
Bloody hell, that was quick! I got lucky, I wondered if it'd been put up and checked the blog, and there it was With regard to the blog itself, I have a couple of questions: - How many sprints are ongoing at any given time?
- It looks like its a pretty obvious copy of the opening on B&W/B&W2, how much else is going to get copied and put into Godus?
- The wording of the blog suggests that this sprint is building on top of things we don't have yet "A new image of flying is stitch to end of existing sequence." - we don't have a sequence yet. How much further ahead is the in-house testing version compared to the opt-in version we can play at the moment?
- A lot of the screenshots look like the mobile version (i.e gem shop). Is this the case, or is the shop just enabled in dev-builds on the PC?
It varies, but at the moment there's one short sprint going on (the one outlined in the blog) and one long sprint going on (which is working on more of the core foundations of the game itself). It's two separate teams but there is occasionally a bit of crossover. And yeah, there's a few things from prior sprints that haven't made it to the public builds yet. There's a few reasons for the timing of all this and sometimes it just has to do with the timing of the longer sprints themselves. The screenshots are mostly just mock ups that aren't really from PC or mobile. |
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Post by wonkonpac on May 21, 2014 19:04:17 GMT
Hi Matthew Allen: First off, thanks for the really informative sprint update. It gives us some tangible points to discuss with you, Monkeythumbz, and the team. If you can keep information like this (especially about the long sprints) coming, I hope that community interaction will become significantly more pleasurable and results oriented. Please keep them coming! I wanted to make two specific points / suggestions out of the many this prompted me to consider: 1. I see that a lot of work is being done on the tutorial/introduction. I know that Peter has said that he envisions people having one homeworld their entire lives. So in theory, the public players will only see the tutorial once. Can you make the tutorial skippable for the dev branch? That way, if someone wants to test the tutorial, they can, but those of us who have seen some variant on it before can move forward without the lengthy delay? I still prefer making the tutorial skippable entirely, but this seems to be a good compromise that may satisfy the community for the time being. (But definitely provide clarity regarding whether the final PC version is likely to have a skippable tutorial. It'd be a terrible surprise to get used to a feature like skippable tutorial only to have it swiped at the last moment when the game finally ships! And by terrible surprise, I mean, something likely to cause you & George heartache.) 2. So, the stickers. Still sticking with them, I see. Well, erm. Can you confirm that the "rare" stickers won't be necessary in early game, so they could conceivably be horded for late game use? Are they like Gems were when Gems were first introduced, where we had to use one to build our first settlement, but we didn't ~have~ to use them for future settlements? *edit - moved from the announcements, where I shouldn't be able to post a reply, to here, for discussion |
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Post by julians on May 21, 2014 20:51:33 GMT
What if somebody buys new phone, from what i understand mobile garbage signup starts 35 mins in. You'd want to skip tutorial in new phone.
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Post by distraction on May 21, 2014 21:30:07 GMT
I think it's clear where the priority is. The below picture only even more so. Feedback from the NZ ios launch is that people don't like belief?   Happiness or belief; the game mechanic remains the same. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on May 21, 2014 23:06:45 GMT
Rare stickers, hahah! I can only imagine what goes on in some of the design meetings at 22cans.
Months of silence will be worth it once we introduce these awesome new stickers!
Wow, that didn't go over well. I know how to remedy this - multi-stickers!
Wow, that didn't go over well. I've got an idea - sticker chests magically replenished by rain!
Wow, that didn't go over well. Hey, let's do rare stickers! Golden!
For the other stuff, man, that is a rough storyboard, there. Yikes. I do like the fast push-in from the clouds, and directly helping followers from the get-go. Seems more immersive. However, still not skippable, and I have no idea why you need to go to an additional screen to tell people how to 'click-and-drag' the land. 'Happiness' could be interesting, but from the looks of it on this outline, it won't be - just another 'click-here-now' pointless time-sink that you can spend gems/belief/real money on. This is why you all get so many 'cow-clicker' comments.
Diverse huts is cool, though.
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