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Post by username on May 25, 2014 6:12:40 GMT
What would it take for you to give a 10 on the goodwill meter? For me personally, 22cans will need to start being as open and honest as possible, have better 2-way communication, and have (and always have had) a clear plan for an actual great game. Something like…
“Hello. This is Peter Molyneux. First and foremost, I would like to apologize to all of the Kickstarter backers and early access purchasers. I know that you feel neglected and betrayed, and I realize that I am truly to blame. I really have all these great ideas that will make Godus truly will be a great game. However, since you all can’t live inside my head I will try my best to explain what is going on.
My vision: I really do want a game that both hardcore gamers and casual gamers can play together. I know it doesn’t seem this way yet, but the PC game will be for the traditional and hardcore players. You will see many changes in the future, and the end result will be quite different than what you are seeing now.
50% complete: What I mean is that the foundations of the game are mostly done. The graphics, the background mechanics, client/server communications, and generally a lot of stuff that you can’t see. Stickers, chests, mini-games, fountains… that’s trivial stuff in the large scheme of things – and honestly, not that important.
Two sides of the same coin: You see, the PC and mobile version share those same foundations. However that other 50%, can be completely different. Yes, there has to be common elements in both. The land sculpting, the god powers, the shrines, the ages… these things have to be present in both. You will be sharing the same world, after all. But how both versions progress can be completely different.
Invest to play: I know all you think that invest to play is the same as free to play or pay to win. And yes, I should have been clearer on what it meant. (And releasing the mobile version before explaining probably didn’t help). Yes, the mobile game is all about free to play and you will have to invest in gems to advance. But I also should have mentioned that the PC version is all about investing time, and that you will have to spend a lot of time to advance.
Pacing: So will it take a day (or days) to unlock shires when this is all done? Yes and no. Yes there will be timers in the mobile version and yes you can use gems to speed things up. The PC version will be different when it’s done. It will take your time (investment) to unlock and advance. It can be by gathering wheat/stone/stickers … whatever. The important part is that people that people that spend a lot of time on the PC side can still advance at the same speed as those who spend a lot of gems on the mobile side. But no matter what pace you decide to go at, there will things for you to do. What those things are is up to you.
We do care about your opinions: Now that the 50% part is done (which was fairly inflexible), we can go back that thing I said about listening to your feedback. Don’t like stickers? Okay, you all can grind for applicable resources instead. Didn’t like that mini-game? We will come up with something else, I guess. Think chests are silly? We will make them trivial. (So no stickers, but you will still collect stuff like artifacts and um… hats? You all like hats, right?) We will discuss theses things, and as long as it doesn’t interfere with the pacing and those foundations we talked about, I sure we can come up with something together.
So why are we not there yet? We really should have had enough funding from the Kickstarter campaign, but things happened… You see there was this 3rd party software that was problematic for us. Legally, I can’t go into it. Let’s just say, things were promised and goals weren’t met. But a lot of time and effort went in to making things (mostly) right. We thought that if we could do the early access thing, we could make up what was lost. Yeah, the game was half baked and the vision was never fully explained. I just thought you all could see what I was seeing. Then the reviews came in. That’s when we got a little desperate.
The most important thing: Okay, I probably shouldn’t have said it, but it’s partially true you know. Okay, money shouldn’t be the most important thing in designing games. But I run a company of 20+ employees. To keep things going, and had to make a few deals with a few mobile companies (which legally, I can’t go into). Let’s just say they gave a few pointers in the whole free to play business, and things won’t be a dire for us or Godus because of it. If we didn’t do it, Godus would be stuck on 1.4 (or 1.5 if we were lucky). But I will do anything in my power to make Godus into that great game I promised you all.
Moving forward: I made some promises on the mobile end (which legally, you know). We are going to be stuck on the mobile development for a little bit longer. But in the meantime, our community manager is compiling a list of every crazy idea I have for Godus. Yes, many things are wishful thinking (I don’t think we can get to that simulated sand bit) so please don’t get too excited. (Or it will be that whole acorn thing all over again). My hope is that the community will review it, and give honest feedback on it. This way we can stop a disliked feature before we start coding it in. We will get to that Godus we talked about, and we will get to it together.
Thank you for your time and understanding.
Peter
P.S. Attached is that roadmap that we were working on.”
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Post by julians on May 25, 2014 6:38:06 GMT
Nothing, actions have consequences, Peter is not a child. And you can't completely repair broken trust.
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Post by greay on May 25, 2014 8:48:11 GMT
Something like that would work for me.
... except they'd probably need some really good explanation as to why they've gone silent / why the communication has been so bad (when they stressed how important it was during the kickstarter). I can't imagine what that would be, though.
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arondc
Wannabe
Posts: 29 
Pledge level: Supporter
I like: bunnies
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Post by arondc on May 25, 2014 9:21:04 GMT
Step 1: Dump Peter Molyneux, his name as game designer istn't worth anything anymore. Yes he made some great games in his youth but today he is even more evil than a big publisher with the same initials as "Early Access". Even an apologize wouldn't help much anymore I think (at least not for me). He may be a nice person in private life but he is just a awful person when it comes to community interaction and game design. Step 2: Give refund to the users who want a refund. Because ...
(not everyone may be interested to still take part in step 3 and following) Step 2.5: Shelve the mobile version of godus (we'll come back to it later)Step 3: Restart the development on godus (PC). Keep the Engine, keep the graphics stile but everything gameplay related is just broken and wrong.
There ist nothing wrong with the graphics stile (actually it's quite nice and functional for that type of game) but dump everything else. The whole sticker & timer system just doesn't work for a fun game. If you haven't any idea of how to substitute this mechanics, ask the community... there are many many great ideas that would make the game really enjoyable. Step 3+1: Maintain a healthy 2 way connection between the developers and the community.This means: - Implement a proper Scrum workflow (if you use scrum, make sure you really use scrum) that enables you to give out a new opt-in beta version every week (every two weeks) without any delaying for testing (because thats part of a full scrum sprint!)
- (Scrum) Make your Product backlog and Sprint backlog be accessible for everyone and make sure it is always the most recent version one has access to
- Set up a permanent accessible roadmap so everyone can see what is your master plan (even if it's not fleshed out here and there). Maybe even link this roadmap to some tool for "idea collection" so the Community coudl discuss about certain parts of your roadmap and give their thoughts about gameplay machanics etc.
- Put up a page where users can share their bug reports centrally (e.g. Bugzilla) so they aren't spread over 2-3 forums
- Put up a development blog where every developer can (and should) share what he/she is working on right now; can post screenshots/videos of WIP things and the CM can use it to have a central point for polls/surveys and spread new information (they still can post things to the Steam or official Godus forums but there would be more time for actual community interaction if your information is on one page where you just have to link to; Gives CM more time for talking to community and developers)
- Get rid of Muir (he may be a nice useful person but he has earned a very bad reputation due to his banhammer action) as he is not a real part of the CM team
- Have a F.A.Q. page where users can submit their questions and browse the catalogue of already answered questions (it's on the long hand less repetitive work for CM)
Step 4: Bring Godus (PC) to a state where you can proudly say "Thats my baby" and wont have to fear critizism.
Step 5: Now you can start on working on a mobile version of Godus. The easy way would be porting the PC version 1:1 to mobile (with the changes needed in controls/graphics quality etc.) and sell it for a fixed price. A good game for a reasonable one time purchase price is worth more than 100.000.000 cow clickers!
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 25, 2014 12:31:21 GMT
Hello Peter! Welcome to the forum. I hope you'll feel right at home here.
Regarding your post, I'm afraid that I've heard it all before and I think that the damage you have done is simply too great for my faith in you as a leader of this project to ever be restored.
Have a nice day.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on May 25, 2014 15:49:28 GMT
Yeah, nothing at this point could bring it up to a 10. The way this company has interacted with it's customers is appalling. The fact that they've clearly lied about aspects of the game they were selling, and the way they've treated mundane details like they were state secrets while claiming 'open development' and 'developer interaction', is just ridiculous. Bigger problem is, there are plenty of other early access titles to compare them to, where you have real developer interaction, not 'community manager' liaisons.
They've just shot themselves in the foot so many times, in so many ways, I don't see a recovery being possible. No way Kickstarter is open to them as a funding route again. Unlikely most of us bother with a 22Cans product again, after this. Absolute best-case scenario is, game development changes drastically and we end up with a game closely resembling what was pitched and sold to us, but really, how many people see that as being plausible at this point?
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Post by Crumpy Six on May 25, 2014 16:02:25 GMT
Come clean, admit what Godus is really all about, offer refunds to those who want it then make a renewed commitment to creating a PC game in keeping with the Kickstarter.
I mean honestly this wouldn't bring the Goodwill up to 10/10, but it's about time 22Cans at least started offering refunds to the people they conned. I used to get annoyed when people would call Godus a scam or a con, but since the 2.0 release the truth has become more and more obvious.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 20:58:22 GMT
... I'm afraid that I've heard it all before ... Thought the same thing. Heard it all before. More than once. Sounds like, please calm down and don't make too much trouble until we have our "money making invest to play super app" out there. Tired of posts like that. 10/10 never again.
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Post by banned on May 26, 2014 15:17:12 GMT
Hello and welcome Peter, It shows character and guts that you have come here knowing you are, to a significant part, facing folks displeased with your decisions and performance. " 22cans will need to start being as open and honest as possible, have better 2-way communication" Promised in kickstarter and multiple times since with little beyond additional people saying it. " I know it doesn’t seem this way yet, but the PC game will be for the traditional and hardcore players. You will see many changes in the future, and the end result will be quite different than what you are seeing now." I assure you that I am aware that there exists a chance that my opinion of the mobile game won't be the same as the version released on the PC. And I have stated if that is the case you and all at 22cans shall receive my heart felt apology with many a post in all the places I have access detailing the achievement. However until there are significant signs, this is just another "marketing ploy." " Stickers, chests, mini-games, fountains… that’s trivial stuff in the large scheme of things – and honestly, not that important." I utterly disagree. These are the crux of the problem as everything wrong stems from these P2W elements. Even if you adjust the timing on the PC to not push store sales, their dumbing down effect remains soundly in place. " I know all you think that invest to play is the same as free to play or pay to win. And yes, I should have been clearer on what it meant. " No, you should have been honest when the elements were first seen and the kickstarter backers asked flat out. " the PC version is all about investing time, and that you will have to spend a lot of time to advance." But I am not investing time. It is a casual game. Hell, on the update restart I got the basics established to where I was getting ready to build the first farming settlement and then I BBQed, (burgers, chicken breasts, egg plant, mushrooms, and corn), I was able to come back in instead of standing by the grill, click and sweep the bubbles (ah, the touch screen and all who think it is for anything but turning pages and pushing really big playschool buttons, ), flatten the required parking lot, etc... without over cooking or in fact rushing anything. This in and of itself is not bad. What is bad, is not admitting that up front. " Yes there will be timers in the mobile version and yes you can use gems to speed things up. The PC version will be different when it’s done. It will take your time (investment) to unlock and advance. It can be by gathering wheat/stone/stickers … whatever." Paywall for a casual game is better because you can't buy your way out of it, how? Please, because I don't see it, beyond waiting what strategy should be considered because other than flattening land now and waiting later or waiting now and flattening later (which I find no determinable outcome between), what else is there? How do the decisions matter? Other than play for a minute or so now or wait until the next bowel movement. " The important part is that people that people that spend a lot of time on the PC side can still advance at the same speed as those who spend a lot of gems on the mobile side." and the winner of "completely misses the point in an attempt to justify" award goes to, ... Peter Molyneux, 22cans! This is the deal with MBAs claims that P2W is fine, this argument is based upon the fallacy that the problem is that the P2W elements are only available in the store. No! The problem is the corruption of game play where paywall placed in the game for no reason other than to drive sales at the expense of actual game play. " But no matter what pace you decide to go at, there will things for you to do. What those things are is up to you." The very definition of a casual game with a justification of the paywall of waiting. You are correct. We can perform menial repetitive tasks instead of pay to win. Got it. " So no stickers, but you will still collect stuff like artifacts and um… hats? You all like hats, right?" back to missing the point. It is not the artwork that is the issue. Nor the name. It is the mechanic put in place so you can sell the shit in the store. Denial is not a river in Egypt. " So why are we not there yet?" Damned few complaints are about this despite the many defenders trying very hard to believe this is the issue. The only complaints about time are over periods of silence and that which was wasted on figuring out new angles to add or what to rename the monetization. " I just thought you all could see what I was seeing." Here is the rub. We do see it. Do you? Everything to date has lead to a casual P2W game. " money shouldn’t be the most important thing in designing games. But I run a company of 20+ employees." Sorry to be callous, but, cry me a river. You are in business. I am a client. Want my money deliver a product I want. Don't want to make a product I want then don't sell it to me and make a product obviously not what you offered. There are other monetization options than making the game P2W and a number of us advised them a year ago. But to be honest, I don't care about the money. water, bridge. I care that the mindset which leads to "make a quick buck by raping the design with P2W!" is prevalent and to date only the "wallstreet" side of it gets any press. As I told you before, my specific aim is not to harm you or 22cans personally, but there is a price to pay for the path you chose. You unfortunately chose to associate me with backing a P2W game by not disclosing that fact and accepting my money. I find this offensive. I paid for the right to my opinion, I am being vocal about it. This is how it really works despite the MBAs focus on "make more quicker" being the only consideration. " I will do anything in my power to make Godus into that great game I promised you all." Do it and I'll praise you beyond your 10/10 creams. (yes innuendo intended. I am bad  However I don't see, given the mechanics you placed in the game, that it is possible to get more than 5/10. This is also why I won't write a review until Godus is released. Believe it or not, as mean as I have been, you still have benefit of doubt on the end result, (not the P2W, that ship sailed into the reef already). " We are going to be stuck on the mobile development for a little bit longer." and had you been honest about this the moment the DeNA deal was out you would be far happier with your current situation. " This way we can stop a disliked feature before we start coding it in." Not sure of the validity of design by committee but you are in appeasement mode and trying to quell a very bad PR revolt, so I see where it is from. You should not feel the the need to appease but if you are not willing to defend an element, as you would not when directly asked on the kickstarter forum, then likely the element is in for the wrong reason. As I said back then, "be proud of and stand up for your design. If you can't/won't then perhaps the problem isn't that we don't like something." It is my opinion that you and 22cans would be best served by abandoning the PC and focusing on fleecing little Timmy as that path is now in stone with your feet firmly on said stone. If however you are masochistic enough to continue to claim, Godus: "PC game will be for the traditional and hardcore players", then more power to you. I'll praise where I deem worthy, condemn where I deem required, and be mean as hell since being nice a year ago got me ignored. again, thank you for coming here and talking to us. Being in a forum not under your control might actually be in your best interest. |
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Post by username on May 26, 2014 21:33:09 GMT
Follow up questions, if you may. If 10/10 is impossible… If their past actions and statements have no excuse… If your good opinion of them is lost and lost forever… Starting today, what steps would like to see 22cans make to at least try to mend these bridges they severely broke?
And if they strictly followed your steps to (partial) redemption, how high would you rate your goodwill towards them?
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on May 26, 2014 22:17:30 GMT
Follow up questions, if you may. If 10/10 is impossible… If their past actions and statements have no excuse… If your good opinion of them is lost and lost forever… Starting today, what steps would like to see 22cans make to at least try to mend these bridges they severely broke? And if they strictly followed your steps to (partial) redemption, how high would you rate your goodwill towards them? Here's the thing. In general, consumers don't expect much. Being honest and open about what you're selling really isn't a very lofty goal to reach for, and shouldn't be hard. Most of their wounds to their reputation, at this point, are completely self-inflicted over the course of, what, a year and a half, two years, now. Once you've earned a reputation with the general public, as 22Cans has, it's very hard to un-earn, or to alter. Damn near impossible. Here's the biggest problem they face - I don't care. I'm not alone, either. I really don't know what they can do, specifically or generally, to redeem themselves. And I don't care. There are too many other companies that haven't 'blown it' with projects to be excited about, and honestly, this company has already had far more time than they deserve, and have continued to shoot themselves in the foot. Life, my friend, is short - they had a shot, they blew it. Beyond redeeming themselves, they have the monumental task of convincing us (the general public) that we should care that they even try. The game, itself, that's far more tangible. I've already bought it, so I'm invested, as it were. There have been suggestions from the very beginning on how to improve that. Part of what puts 22Cans in the position that they're in is that they've ignored this info, misconstrued it, or outright lied about their approach to feedback. Fixing the game and making it somewhat worthwhile or even good, much more concrete than fixing the reputation of the company. |
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Post by waiting on conway on May 27, 2014 1:22:38 GMT
Peter, I’m not certain that you understand the nature of the pickle you’re in. At this point, I believe you will have to deliver a finished “kick-ass” PC game before PC gamers will take you seriously. I also think you’re faced with two immediately irresolvable issues.
A) Perception and the Human Animal
The human animal is such that when it believes it’s been cheated, when it feels betrayed, it won’t forget and it rarely forgives. Let me illustrate:
I meet with my sister for lunch once a week. We typically frequented a local Denny’s restaurant since I loved their biscuits and gravy, with some simple black pepper and the little bits of sausage mixed into. . . Until one day when our orders arrived and mine was stone cold. And it didn’t taste right. And the waitress could not be found.
Once my sister finished her meal, we headed to the cash register and there we waited. And we waited. It seems that Denny’s had booked conventioneers in a back dining area and they had absorbed the staff’s attention. Eventually two waitresses emerged and saw us at the register so we paid our bills (anybody curious as to why I might pay the bill is free to ask). I’d missed it, but my sister heard one of the waitresses say, “We gave the free-meal offer to the wrong one.”
Neither of us has yet returned to Denny’s, and by now it’s been at least two years.
You see? Stuff happens. A trusted vender fumbles repeatedly, and some human animals won’t even tell you that you’re done: I know I’m being unreasonable, I know stuff happens and neither I nor my sister will cut those simpleton bastards any slack.
Would you believe I actually thought to go back to Denny’s a few months ago, but my sister looked at me like I was crazy? So here’s the final thrust of “A) Perception and the Human animal.” Apologies mean nothing. Promises mean nothing and explanations are worthless excuses. Extenuating circumstances don’t matter and burned is burned; we’ll not help you recover. We will, however, happily badmouth you to everyone we know because fact takes a backseat to perception. And popular perception says Godus is a retched lie.
Can’t say I’m proud of it, but that is the way it is.
B) The Nature of a Work In Progress
With the singular exception of Kentucky Route Zero, I learned that I’m not suited to Kickstarter or Early Access in-progress games. The generic sales pitch seems attractive; “Fund our project and have a voice in how it develops,” but the simple truth is that very few of us are prepared to assume the risk of backing an unfinished game.
I think this is wise. I think gamers should back away from unsubstantiated claims and promises. I also believe that playing and providing feedback on any game is the antithesis of fun. To learn, be forced to forget and then relearn the rules over and over again? That’s not fun. That’s work. I’m not going to do your work for you unless you pay me –but wait. I paid you. And that’s the dilemma at the heart of a ragged crowd-funded model.
Populous was great, PowerMonger was great and Black&White was absolutely wondrous, so I extend the following challenge to you.
Kentucky Route Zero isn’t a god game, nor is it a point-and-click or texted based game although it does draw heavily upon these last two genres. It possesses a striking visual style and a varied story-telling technique. It’s contemporary, it’s historic. It’s also rife with stage and literary references. In spite of all its wildly disparate components --or perhaps because of them-- Kentucky Route Zero transcends its parts and delivers something new, something that haunts, something fun and something that’s immeasurably rewarding beyond the sum of its parts.
I agree with what someone else said in another forum elsewhere: Even if Kentucky Route Zero’s last two remaining episodes turn out to be awful, I’ll still have received my money’s worth. Devine how this might be so, and you may yet salvage Godus from a multitude of circling wolves.
You have my best wishes.
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Post by banned on May 27, 2014 1:37:04 GMT
"Black&White was absolutely wondrous"
I'd play it to this day but the multiplayer was unstable.
B&W2 was never bought in my house because we knew "eventually get multiplayer" meant publisher shall never let it occur.
Sorry, we assumed publisher. Given Godus, I may owe the suits an apology as the idiotic omission of multiplayer in the sequel could well have been another source.
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Post by waiting on conway on May 27, 2014 2:39:46 GMT
Howdy tigrismorte.
Black&White 2’s graphics were pretty stinkin’ hot, but it also eliminated any mystery surrounding how creatures operated. That was one of the very, very cool things about the original: Creatures could be trained, but they never completely obeyed their training. Black&White 2 was something like a magician reveling how he executed his magic, and how creatures were locked into robotic predetermined actions.
That confounding, ineffable mystery; that’s precisely what made for the original Black&White’s gaming magic.
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Post by engarde on May 27, 2014 7:21:12 GMT
Am I the only one thinking of Swiss Toni from The Fast Show every time Peter attempts, and fails, to compare software development to cooking? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Toni |
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stuhacking
Master
Posts: 170
Pledge level: Partner
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Post by stuhacking on May 27, 2014 14:47:00 GMT
Step 2.5: Shelve the mobile version of godus (we'll come back to it later)Step 3: Restart the development on godus (PC). Keep the Engine, keep the graphics stile but everything gameplay related is just broken and wrong. This sounds so simple on the face of it, and I'm sure if Peter announced that there would be much rejoicing. Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more I think that 22Cans are taking the only course of action they can to produce a good PC game. - See, what everyone really wants is a deep, engaging PC game, no question..
- Such games take a lot of effort to produce, which requires a lot of funding.
- Currently, 22Cans are a bit short on funding, and with such a poor situation on Steam, it looks as though the EA PC version is not going to cut it.
- But there's a solution: Shallow mobile games require less effort, and therefore potentially less funding. Mobile games also gives them the best potential for sales because that's a model that seems to be working right now.
- High sales of mobile means 22Cans get more money... more funds.
- More funding can be used to pay for more effort.
- More effort can hopefully be put into the PC version to deliver on the initial vision.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the lack of communication. I'm just saying that if 22Cans were to simply "Abandon the mobile version and make the PC game" they would surely fail, because they do not have enough money. What they are currently doing is probably the best chance of getting money. So what I would say to Peter is: Stop designing for a second, stop giving us grand dreams and promises. Get your business sorted out, make sure you have the means to produce the game you want to produce. If you can't make the game, then all the promises will have been for naught anyway. If you want to give us something meaningful, how about sharing some of the things you learned from this project? Real gritty stuff. Be straight with us... what went wrong? How do you plan to recover? You have a wealth of experience from the traditional game industry, yet seemed to stumble here: I'm sure this taught you stuff you could pass on? The backer forum seems to have quite a few developers, artists and designers, so I have no doubt that an honest account of the project would be welcomed wholeheartedly. |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 27, 2014 15:35:44 GMT
Step 2.5: Shelve the mobile version of godus (we'll come back to it later)Step 3: Restart the development on godus (PC). Keep the Engine, keep the graphics stile but everything gameplay related is just broken and wrong. This sounds so simple on the face of it, and I'm sure if Peter announced that there would be much rejoicing. Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more I think that 22Cans are taking the only course of action they can to produce a good PC game. Yeah but Peter keeps babbling about the pc version and the mobile version being connected, so not happening. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 15:58:34 GMT
Step 2.5: Shelve the mobile version of godus (we'll come back to it later)Step 3: Restart the development on godus (PC). Keep the Engine, keep the graphics stile but everything gameplay related is just broken and wrong. This sounds so simple on the face of it, and I'm sure if Peter announced that there would be much rejoicing. Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the more I think that 22Cans are taking the only course of action they can to produce a good PC game. - See, what everyone really wants is a deep, engaging PC game, no question..
- Such games take a lot of effort to produce, which requires a lot of funding.
- Currently, 22Cans are a bit short on funding, and with such a poor situation on Steam, it looks as though the EA PC version is not going to cut it.
- But there's a solution: Shallow mobile games require less effort, and therefore potentially less funding. Mobile games also gives them the best potential for sales because that's a model that seems to be working right now.
- High sales of mobile means 22Cans get more money... more funds.
- More funding can be used to pay for more effort.
- More effort can hopefully be put into the PC version to deliver on the initial vision.
I'm not trying to make excuses for the lack of communication. I'm just saying that if 22Cans were to simply "Abandon the mobile version and make the PC game" they would surely fail, because they do not have enough money. What they are currently doing is probably the best chance of getting money. Some time ago i thought like that, too. But then someone told me that they have a publisher for the mobile version which gives them money ...
It's like a fight of some little people in my head. A read and a blue one. The red one tries to defend 22cans and searches for reasons to trust them. The blue one brings me back into reality. I have tried to look at the whole project from different angles but everytime i come to the same conclusion ... they lied to us. In one story it was earlier in another later but everytime it ends the same way. And even if they do the best pc game ever in five years when the mobile game has made enough money it's not ok to lie to their backers.
I think what i can read in your post is the small and tiny bit of hope that we will get a delightful PC Game one day. And yes sometimes i feel like that, too. But as mentioned above ... they lied to us. I have thought so many possible alternative stories and in one they lied more, in another one less, but never there was a story without any lies. In one they lied out of malice, panic, fear, calculation or greed ... but in every story they lied at some point (it wasn't the same time and place but it was there).
I see only one other possibility and that's total incompetence of the complete management and public releations team. I can't believe that and i don't think it does make the chance to get a great PC Game much better.
Sometimes I have pity for them but then i think why do you lie to me. What are you doing with my >200pounds? That's a lot of money. Is it ok to take that money to fullfill your dreams? Which seem to be to make much more money out of it and not a great pc game. If this poor guy with nothing to eat breaks into a house to steal your historical pc game collection to sell it on ebay he gets shot in some countries. No one says ok, maybe he will start a great business with this money and in three years i get my money back or maybe a great pc game to play with my kids.
I don't want them to go to jail, get shot and i even don't whish them any kind of disease. I don't want Peter to be a broken man, crawling on his knees. But i want honesty. And that's something i can't feel or see here at the moment and in the last one and a half year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2014 16:25:20 GMT
I believe I've already seen that backers story a few times on the other forum... sad. Why don't backers leave 22cans and themselves alone? (I know they got backers money, etc...) or at least until there's something new to say about the development? You may save some useful energy: there s some calendar by now: www.22cans.com/what-are-we-working-on-right-now/ On the 12th of June or maybe a few dayz later, there ll be "matter" to discuss and real topics to create (I mean not topics already seen except for the new ppl on the forum.  I just say that, not a huge critic 'cause I see the same people talking about the same things. well... I don't believe the 22cans studios doesn't care about its audience, just care a bit about yourself as well. Cheers ! |
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Post by username on May 27, 2014 17:45:48 GMT
Personally, I have being learning a lot from this thread. I guess I’m that new person on this forum, but I haven’t heard a lot of these stories. I thank everyone that has been sharing.
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