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Post by engarde on Jun 3, 2014 13:26:13 GMT
It's the aliens leatherheads I tell you. Under the dome stylee (book not tv show).
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
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Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Jun 3, 2014 16:22:47 GMT
Yep the "Community Concerns" are about how to report bugs...ummmmm hummmm...got my hopes up that they where about to address something of value...guess not... Not just that, bless his heart, but admitting that their bug reporting system is severely flawed isn't setting anyone at ease. Unfortunately, though not surprisingly, they also haven't addressed anything about working to fix these issues and concerns with the feedback system within the roadmap either. I didn't write this particular update (it was a copy/paste over here), but every bug that gets sent in is put into our bug tracking process and the programmers are held accountable on their rate of completion. For every bug that the community finds, the programmers usually end up finding 10. So I know it might seem like slow progress on some of the bug fixing but it's all part of the process. We're still aware of everyone's bugs and we have them priority ranked as well, so many of the community's more pervasive bugs are sitting near the top of the list.
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Post by engarde on Jun 4, 2014 9:20:34 GMT
Matthew, I fail to see how telling us that the devs find 10 times as many bugs as we do as the reason for slow progress is a good 'line' for you to take or can even be seen as a beneficial statement to make, period. If I find and report an issue and a developer finds out that actually its a dozen different issues which magically line up to give one end user bug experience, as an end user I could not care. Or if I cannot see their 10 issues because they system exploded for me before I can find/experience those ten, so what.
I've been developing software for more than 25 years and frankly to me as a developer statements such as 'accountable on their rate of completion' are distasteful at best.
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zeruelb
Junior Apprentice
Posts: 63
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Post by zeruelb on Jun 4, 2014 9:56:19 GMT
I've been developing software for more than 25 years and frankly to me as a developer statements such as 'accountable on their rate of completion' are distasteful at best. It is. But we also know that PM likes meaningless Percentages.
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jun 4, 2014 11:34:52 GMT
I didn't write this particular update (it was a copy/paste over here), but every bug that gets sent in is put into our bug tracking process and the programmers are held accountable on their rate of completion. For every bug that the community finds, the programmers usually end up finding 10. So I know it might seem like slow progress on some of the bug fixing but it's all part of the process. We're still aware of everyone's bugs and we have them priority ranked as well, so many of the community's more pervasive bugs are sitting near the top of the list. Thanks. I suppose that's actually pretty common, for the Devs to find more bugs and things the players never see. Question; if they find 10x more bugs per every bug reported, then why are (most of) these not listed in the "Known" or "Fixed" columns in the Patch Notes? At least, the larger, more persistent ones, or any that might be more pervasive or potentially game-breaking, should be listed for the players/testers; fixed or not. Even letting us know that they fixed something as minor as " the word {blah} was misspelled on {such-and-such}" is better than nothing. Likewise, it doesn't need be too specific for sweeping fixes like, " smoothed all the meshes on all the houses that were glitching", instead of listing each house individually. And I'm not talking about the in-house development version that hasn't been released yet, but anything they fix in the releasetest and the open-beta version. I might not have used the best examples (I'll think how to clarify), and I know they need to be somewhat choosy which ones to list - because listing every little nudge is just silly - but you know what I mean; I'm just curious to know more.
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World Stroking Simulator 2014™
Master
Oh hey, Godus, that was a thing. Yeah. *shakes head*
Posts: 143
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I like: Indy games. Also decent studio games.
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Post by World Stroking Simulator 2014™ on Jun 4, 2014 12:51:12 GMT
I am on the opt-out build.
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Jun 6, 2014 5:13:57 GMT
I didn't write this particular update (it was a copy/paste over here), but every bug that gets sent in is put into our bug tracking process and the programmers are held accountable on their rate of completion. For every bug that the community finds, the programmers usually end up finding 10. So I know it might seem like slow progress on some of the bug fixing but it's all part of the process. We're still aware of everyone's bugs and we have them priority ranked as well, so many of the community's more pervasive bugs are sitting near the top of the list. Thanks. I suppose that's actually pretty common, for the Devs to find more bugs and things the players never see. Question; if they find 10x more bugs per every bug reported, then why are (most of) these not listed in the "Known" or "Fixed" columns in the Patch Notes? At least, the larger, more persistent ones, or any that might be more pervasive or potentially game-breaking, should be listed for the players/testers; fixed or not. Even letting us know that they fixed something as minor as " the word {blah} was misspelled on {such-and-such}" is better than nothing. Likewise, it doesn't need be too specific for sweeping fixes like, " smoothed all the meshes on all the houses that were glitching", instead of listing each house individually. And I'm not talking about the in-house development version that hasn't been released yet, but anything they fix in the releasetest and the open-beta version. I might not have used the best examples (I'll think how to clarify), and I know they need to be somewhat choosy which ones to list - because listing every little nudge is just silly - but you know what I mean; I'm just curious to know more. Granted, "10" was just a number I threw around. No idea what the actual stats are on that. Anywho, to answer your question, in most cases the minor bugs that the programming team finds in one update get fixed in the next. Not always of course (cause that'd be awesome), but that's why you'll not see an addition to the Known Issues list as that's more for keeping the community informed of the commonly reported and unfixed issues, as opposed to it being a more dynamic daily changing document, if only because it'd be getting updated every few hours (which is where our proper bug tracking software comes in). Something like what you're talking about is more of a patch notes thing I feel. Are you guys interested in more of the nitty gritty (and minor) changes whenever we post updates?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 6, 2014 5:37:01 GMT
I don't speak for anyone else of course but bugs don't really interest me that much. They would only interest me if I knew how the subsystem the bug occurs in was structured in programming terms. Then it could be interesting to think about why the bug could be occurring and then I would like to know what needed to be done in order to fix the bug. Mind you I'm not asking you guys or suggesting that that is something that you should do. It would be far too much work anyway. Just talking about how much/little I care about bugs in a general sense.
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Post by greay on Jun 6, 2014 6:31:13 GMT
I don't speak for anyone else of course but bugs don't really interest me that much. They would only interest me if I knew how the subsystem the bug occurs in was structured in programming terms. Then it could be interesting to think about why the bug could be occurring and then I would like to know what needed to be done in order to fix the bug. Mind you I'm not asking you guys or suggesting that that is something that you should do. It would be far too much work anyway. Just talking about how much/little I care about bugs in a general sense. I'm a little curious what the community's opinion on bugs vs features is. I know for myself I'd much rather they focus on adding new features and iterating on existing systems than fixing bugs – even if the game becomes more unstable. Of course in the real world they have to keep a balance; if they ignore bugs too much it'll get to the point that it becomes harder to add new features, but I do think the goal should be new stuff over stability. Is this something other people feel?
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 6, 2014 6:35:35 GMT
You have to deal with bugs, if you let them hang around too long it could become harder to figure out how to fix them. Also if you don't deal with a bug and you build more code on top of it you are likely to get new bugs when you fix the old one.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 6, 2014 6:50:28 GMT
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Post by engarde on Jun 11, 2014 8:03:07 GMT
The flowing water/spotlight issues has been described as a balance file copy problem. I linked the triggering of the spotlights to the underground fires, and their appearance to my flowing water having exited voyage 2 - they remained a linked case so presumably they are inked and what they will fix in balance terms will address the lot... Given the balance files are server side that surprises me, but with their non-update of last weeks weekly updates it will apparently be address in the next one, this week. Not that I necessarily believe 1) it will be fixed 2) is a balance file issue 3) they will release anything at E3 4) release anything whilst they are at E3 5) will obviously force the optin-ers to reset back to 0 again.
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