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Post by Qetesh on Jun 30, 2014 11:28:43 GMT
I am going to go ahead and make this Poll on a thread open for discussion as well. I would ask that this thread remain constructive. I feel that this is a way to respond to the article from PM and his desire to end this division of gamers with a new game genre for Godus.. Please select your answer and feel free to expand your reasons why. Please note, I would like this poll and thread to be a place where Devs can use if they wanted to so if it becomes another negative thread, I will move those posts to another thread and close the poll for discussion. You want a place to have your input heard, and I think this is a great opportunity. I will go ahead and make my vote and copy and paste my response from the thread with the article on it. |
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Post by Qetesh on Jun 30, 2014 11:29:36 GMT
This sounds like he wants to blend the games into one new genre, but there is a problem with that. I don't want to play a new type of genre game. I like that division and I don't see anything wrong with it. I think that a good PC game with a store for superficial items is perfect already. I don't mind paying 40 dollars for a game upfront and never having to pay a penny again. I don't want any F2p mechanics in my game. I don't want any chores in my game either. I think of this and it makes me think of people wanting everyone to have the same size car. They would make a medium size car for all so that there would be no more division of car owners. That would be horrible. I might want a small car to save on gas and because I don't like to drive bigger cars and I don't like the look of them, I like small cars. Or, I might want a big car because I have a large family, or ton of stuff to tote around in day to day life, or I just like the look and feel of a bigger car. This should be my choice. The games are no different. As a consumer, I should be able to choose what type of game I want. I am the customer and I am supposed to be the one that is always right and catered to. This should not be the other way around. I don't want the gaming industry deciding for me what types of games to play nor do I see a bit of a problem as a gamer with this division. I get that this is now a way to justify the F2p mechanics in the game, okay, so this is the F2p mobile game, I'm over that, but please don't tell me that my PC game is going to be anything like any F2p to create a new genre or meld some division that I don't care about. I just wanted a fun PC God game. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Jun 30, 2014 11:48:32 GMT
I'll explain my reasoning, and reaction to the article, later today by editing this post. Right now I need to get ready for work, so this is just a placeholder to remind me.  But yes, I think it's a terrible idea and I think either PM is misguided or backpeddling, and saying it so he's essentially covered no matter how the game comes out. |
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Post by Deth on Jun 30, 2014 11:59:17 GMT
I am willing to give anything a try once. With out innovation games will stagnate. Even if his idea fails maybe it will motivate someone else to make a better genre of games. I am sure when someone first put out the idea for the first MMO I am sure there were people going, "I do not want that, it will not work, people will not play it." But look at where we are today.
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Post by Danjal on Jun 30, 2014 12:13:04 GMT
Tacking random popular ideas and buzzwords together, thats what Godus is.
The original idea to make a Utopian game that will provide something for *everyone* and that people will keep playing for years to come.
Totally discounting the players that aren't looking for another 'job', but just want to play for a few hours and then move on with their lives.
Thats what Godus is.
Apparently they still believe that if they can just get enough buzzwords and tape them together, the endresult will be highly profitable.
"Cloud", "Mobile", "Accessibility", "Competative Multiplayer" - and the list goes on...
Innovation? Not really, its a taking existing popular concepts and taping them together to hope it works.
If only they had an actual solid plan or direction...
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Post by engarde on Jun 30, 2014 12:22:19 GMT
I could careless what the buzzword bingo team call it.
It has to be a game however...
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jun 30, 2014 12:27:57 GMT
I found the idea of combining mobile and PC interesting from the start but I also expected it to be a failure, so I was skeptical. At present time I feel like my initial fears were justified though I still hope 22Cans will manage to pull the proverbial rabbit from the hat. What I've longed for from the start and still do is an engrossing PC game and to achieve that I think that mobile would have to be cut loose from PC completely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 12:29:57 GMT
I really don't get what he wants to tell us with this interview at all. I really love new game Genres, but i don't think he is talking about them. A genre is (for me) strategy, simulation, rpg, shooter - maybe devided into subgenres (turnbased strategy, realtime strategy). Godus dosn't look like a new genre. What he wants seems to be unite hardcore and casual players. But it sounds more like he tries to justify his f2p adventures.
I don't see this breakdown into hardcore and casual gamers. I think you can call me a so called hardcore gamer, and my wife could be a so called casual gamer. But i like to play some f2p from time to time. Sometimes she shows me a new game on here phone and we have some fun with it. Sometimes i load the game on my phone, too. So what? I like playing Dwarf Fortress or Crusader Kings 2 nevertheless. On the other hand i showed here CS:GO and The Guild 2 - and she can have fun with them, too? What defines a casual or a hardcore gamer? The Game? The time they play games? My wife plays "Candy Crush" or "Quiz Duell" for hours, is she a hardcore gamer? We don't need a "Einheitsspiel" who every one should play. We are gamers and we need good games that are fun to play, we need different games so anyone can find the game he likes.
The kickstarter backers and early access people are not angry and throwing tomatoes on him (never heard any of us did this) because he is doing another f2p game. They are angry because he told them something, took their money and now seems to do something completly different. So called hardcore gamers don't like to pay for something everyone else can get for free. And i can tell you that my casual gamer wife doesn't like it, too.
I hope that's not negative.
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Post by stuhacking on Jun 30, 2014 12:30:05 GMT
The problem with the idea is that it's usually not for developers to say what genre their game is - They can implement mechanics that are well known (e.g. a turn-based combat strategy gives a good description of what a game is), but it's usually the players that assign 'genres' and group games together with other similar games. That creates division, but I think it's maybe unavoidable...
I would love a game that could equally appeal to all players, really! But that seems like an enormously tough sell! There are difficulties:
1) Even in the relatively small Godus backer community there are so many differing ideas about what the game should be- that should tell you how tough it would be to scale that idea up. A game that tried to incorporate multiple mechanics to appeal to fans of different genres would be a complex thing to develop.
2) There will always be people in the player community who want to generate some sort of 'top-tier' of users, because that's how some people operate. The community that grows out of a game is out of the developer's control.
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Post by Danjal on Jun 30, 2014 13:41:53 GMT
If only Godus knew what it was...
Its an identity crisis if I ever saw one.
On the one hand it wants to play with the big kids, but on the other hand it knows that the casual crowd is far larger (and therefor far more profitable).
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Post by Monkeythumbz on Jun 30, 2014 13:51:58 GMT
On the one hand it wants to play with the big kids, but on the other hand it knows that the casual crowd is far larger (and therefor far more profitable). You know what, this is precisely part of the problem - I agree. However, the design team are committed to resolving it. Just because something is (very?) hard, doesn't mean it's impossible. The results, of course, will be yours to judge. Also, very nice to see you again, Danjal - I'm glad you've joined these forums. |
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Post by earlparvisjam on Jun 30, 2014 15:47:52 GMT
The issue isn't just melding game play styles like hardcore and casual. It's a lot more. Godus is a game that's trying to be all things to all people on all devices with wildly divergent capabilities. On top of that, it's trying to bridge the gap between f2p and p2p mechanics. If it tried to do one of those things, I could see it happening. If it tried to do two, I'd say it's feasible. Trying all three, well that's just someone saying what people want to hear any time they're asked a question.
As it stands, Godus CAN'T work. There are innate design paradoxes baked into the game based upon what PM has stated in interviews. No amount of deep thought is going to solve them. Either some of the stated features have to be scrapped or the game will wither and die. The fact that it's been 9 months and we're still opening chests for random stickers should be a tip off as to where this project is heading.
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Post by splitterwind on Jun 30, 2014 17:41:47 GMT
What is this genre called and how does it differentiate between other genres? What are the criteria to fit in that genre?
He is alway talking about trying something new, but I fail to see what should be new about Godus.
That it is (supposedly!) appealing to both casual and core gamers?
Blizzard made multiple fantastic games that were appealing to both. Most games of Nintendo were also appealing to both groups with a shift more towards casual. Except these games were actually capable of appealing to both groups. There are further games that can appeal to both groups of gamers.
Since Godus isn't appealing to core gamers so far it wouldn't even fit the criteria of that supposedly new genre.
Or is this genre defined by its monetization? F2P isn't a genre and neither is pay2win. Monetization doesn't equal genre.
Is it about making a game that works on both mobile and PC? XCOM enemy unknown did it great and achieved high ratings on both platforms and a few other games did too. They actually did it better by far than godus. Thats not a genre either.
I fail to see how Godus is supposed to be seen as a new genre.
Calling Godus a new genre sounds like buzzword / marketing spin.
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splitterwind
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Post by splitterwind on Jun 30, 2014 17:48:54 GMT
There is no answer on the poll that would reflect my opinion.
I'm open to new genres and innovative games. I like games like antichamber or dear esther and I even kind of liked the void. But godus simply isn't one of them.
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Post by banned on Jul 1, 2014 2:45:23 GMT
I do not like paid freemium.
I did not pledge for pay again.
I will not like it in a phone,
I will not give it to anyone.
I do not like greedy cash grab,
I did not pledge for freemium.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 5:08:55 GMT
I wish Peter would do a current interview where he gushed and quivered and pined about the specifics of "Godus, the PC Game" instead of drumming his chest about thinly veiled monetezation analytics. I wish he would tell us how great the game play will be. I wish he would go into specifics about how much fun I am going to have playing it. I wish he would tell tails that fill my head with fanciful musings of the inspired art direction. I wish he would tell me about the interesting technical aspects of bringing intuitive game core mechanics to the PC version.
I wish that HE would come out and tell his fans, and his skeptics, that he is truly invested in making Godus a great game that lives up to its hype, instead of a cheap retirement mobile money-mill that it appears to be. I wish that he would really take a stand in front of his public and weather those "rotten tomatoes" and prove the haters wrong in all aspects.
I wish he would follow through on his promises.
I really do wish that these things would happen...
But right now, all that really seems to be on his mind, at least publicly, is engineering himself into the bottom level of a new disposable income quid farming market.
I got a little off topic, but to answer the OP... I don't believe he has discovered or designed a new genre at all. I think he is an expert at using vague buzzwords to get people excited about ideas that aren't well thought out. Which is really... really sad considering the many good things he has brought to the gaming industry.
I hope I am wrong.
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Lord Ba'al
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Jul 1, 2014 5:23:02 GMT
Nice avatar you got there.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2014 10:21:42 GMT
Why thank you. Someday it will grow into a tree... or so I'm told.
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Post by Casinha on Jul 1, 2014 11:00:24 GMT
So hang on, he wants to break the boundaries created by genres by creating a genre? Not sure how that would work. Is he looking to transcend genres rather than creating a new one?
Also, games do not separate "casuals" from "core gamers", the gamers themselves do. Someone who claims to be a hard core gamer will often readily dismiss someone who plays bejewelled as a casual gamer, yet there are people that will play bejewelled for hundreds of hours in an effort to increase their high score. We also hail the arcade days as being the era of true hard core gaming, but in what way is mobile gaming different to arcades? Granted, the platform is different, but the notion of sitting down and quickly playing an Angry Birds level is no different - to me - to waltzing into an arcade and dropping a few pounds into the Time Crisis machine.
A game will not break this "divide" between casual and core gamers (that would require an attitude adjustment), and I'm pretty sure this divide is being overemphasised regardless, it's the same as someone who reads books a lot vs. someone who doesn't read books a lot, pointless to point out or complain about and doesn't matter in the slightest. Yes, I know he only vaguely mentioned casual and core gaming, but it keeps coming up and it bothers me, so nyah.
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