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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 10, 2014 20:47:00 GMT
Gems have quite the history in our community, and we recognise it isn’t an entirely rosy one. They have been seen as a cash mechanic frequently used in mobile games, and nothing more. But gems are more, much more than that. Gems have been used in games for ages, as markers denoting power and as currency. Given that we’re going for feel of gods playing with the world like it’s a table-top game, those kinds of gems make a lot of sense to us. But how to separate one kind of gem from another? The PC community has asked us to make a ‘pay-up-front’ kind of game, where there is no place for the mobile game variety of gems. But what about the table-top variety? Could that version of gems be embraced by the community? Given our iterative style of designing the game, we can but simply try. Of course, you may believe that us re-introducing gems is only a stepping stone to bringing back the gems for sale. We can only tell you that we’re aiming at an entirely different goal for gems. To be clear: we have no intention to bring a gems-for-sale option to PC. Not now, not later. We’ve listened to your feedback on the matter. That we’re experimenting with a very different interpretation of what a gem is has nothing to do with monetising the game and it won’t be turned into that at any time in the future either. Given how strongly the PC community feels about this, we wanted to make sure you didn’t have to worry about that kind of gem-monetisation mechanic returning. BS. Such BS. This is not a unique or different approach to gems. What gems are, what they essentially amount to in Godus, is little more than gold/money/dust/etc. currencies in other grand strategy games. Except of course, this is obscured by the fact that they're used as a microtransaction on mobile and we're all caught up in that for very good reasons, plus this isn't a grand strategy game. Setting that aside for a moment, here's the biggest problem with how this is implemented in Godus right now...The gem costs and timer balances are, as we all pretty much recognize, completely and totally off. In fact, if I weren't so sure they're inflated merely to wear down a mobile user's patience to buy gems, I'd almost be willing to believe that for some terribly backwards reason, they were trying to emulate turns in a grand strategy game but in real time. This is too absurd for me to believe this is the intent, however it disturbingly almost makes sense, doesn't it? City improvement or unit training takes a few turns to complete, but sprinkle on some gold and you can get it in the next turn. Works great there, because you know, turn-based and other stuff to do. Here, though, it's like they're trying to smash together something that simply doesn't work not only from a mobile design perspective but if they intend to keep the gem exchange around, from a general RTS design perspective. I have, in all my years of playing RTS games, rarely come across this design in such an extensive and terrible manner. In say, Rise of Legends and Age of Mythology (maybe also Age of Empires II: Age of Kings), I only ever saw this approach used minimally for the recruitment of mercenaries or the instant capture of neutral cities. That's it. That works, and the reason that works is because you've got other resources to invest in the construction of other structures (e.g. in Age of Mythology, you have stuff like wood/stone with gold being a side for upgrades and merc recruitment/creation). So really, what all this comes down to is that you're trying too hard to keep things simple, regardless of platform, and shooting yourself straight in the feet again by keeping more of the resource mechanics away for too long, all to emphasize belief, gems, and stickers as your key resources. Seriously, stop that. Make a good game. Add a sensible resource system, keep your gems for stuff that really matters, not every stupid little thing. You've already got the beginnings of some of the groundwork done for it. Heck, if you must have your stickers, boost their generation so that they may be used for both cards and structures or something. It makes as much sense as putting them on cards, after all. Faith stickers instantly make abodes pray generating belief to gather, tech stickers make stuff build faster and/or upgrade, social stickers make people happier, settlement stickers both allow for the creation of a settlement and the instant generation of one of its units (farmer/miner/builder), and voyage stickers can be used to hasten the beacon of expansion repair and/or uncover new voyages. There you go, you'll still need to balance it all out for the increased need for stickers on everything, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than gems everywhere and if you adjust it just right, you can still squeeze out some microtransactions from your mobile playerbase without boring them to death. How's that? I redesigned your resource system without having to jam in new crap, just rebalance some stuff which you've already admitted you need to do, and possibly made it align with your "more ethical" approach to F2P business models. Not only that, you get to keep your precious little gems and may still use them for picking up belief and stickers, just no longer on everything.
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Post by Danjal on Aug 10, 2014 20:57:55 GMT
Their defense: They're not for sale, you can just get them through ingame means.
And remember, its a PC designed game, it has NOTHING to do with either F2P, mobile, micro-transactions or anything of the sort!
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Post by Gmr Leon on Aug 10, 2014 21:05:45 GMT
Their defense: They're not for sale, you can just get them through ingame means. And remember, its a PC designed game, it has NOTHING to do with either F2P, mobile, micro-transactions or anything of the sort! Ugh, seriously, but you get my drift right? These gems are almost exactly like using the currencies in games like Civilization/Galactic Civilizations/Endless Space to instantly roll out a unit/upgrade (or if not instantly, next turn), but shoved into more of a RTS style game.
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Post by Crumpy Six on Aug 10, 2014 21:40:01 GMT
PM is deluded if he thinks the gem mechanic offers anything new to gaming. I don't mean this as a personal attack against him, merely as an observation based on the things he has said and the reality of the current implementation of Godus. This is not the first time he has sounded deluded about something - it seems like the negative reaction of PC gamers to Godus along the way has also taken him by surprise, so he either deliberately misinformed PC users in order to get the Early Access cash (and is just pretending to be surprised by the outcry) or he severely misjudged the appeal of his own game. These are the only logical explanations for 22Cans' deliverables over the last year.
Therefore I don't have confidence that Godus will improve. Either PM genuinely does not know what he's doing wrong and doesn't understand the situation well enough to correct it, or he is deliberately leading the game down this path and doesn't have the will to change it.
I feel sorry for George and Matthew because they are going to have to keep defending this appalling abortion of a game and pretending they think it's great and exciting and innovative and special. I think in reality they are intelligent people and do not hold this opinion at all. All I would say to them is, I suspect 22Cans is going to have to start cutting down on staff before too long, and PC-facing community team members are likely to be first on the block (due to the obvious fact that 22Cans has very little interest in the PC market at this stage and doesn't have much to gain by trying to keep us happy). Make sure your CVs are up to scratch.
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 10, 2014 21:48:49 GMT
I have to tell you politely, I don't buy that line.
I don't even think I need to explain why, I have actually played F2p games and I know from where I speak. You gave us Y, so, I am still waiting for X, but please don't even try to call your Y a different version of X.
As I told you before I don't want to brush my teeth with toothpaste flavored denture cream and frozen yogurt flavored ice cream will still make you fat.
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jpw
Master
Posts: 159
Pledge level: Patron+Acorn+Poster
I like: Populus
What I thought Godus was going to be...
I don't like: Waiting
Collecting belief
Stickers
Sculpting
Voyages
Managing settlements
Not being a god in a god game
Chests
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Post by jpw on Aug 10, 2014 22:09:24 GMT
Leaving aside the Kickstarter issues what I find amazing is how people who paid £15 to play this game are being treated and how they must feel. I know, yes, I put up over £80, a very small amount compared to others, but when I try to imagine this game from the point of view of a person who paid £15, what must they think now finding the identical, yes identical game on IOS for free, well, gosh.
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Post by banned on Aug 15, 2014 1:54:00 GMT
Their defense: They're not for sale, you can just get them through ingame means. And remember, its a PC designed game, it has NOTHING to do with either F2P, mobile, micro-transactions or anything of the sort! hmm, why is everything I see them do just proof of everything I told them I was concerned about a year and half ago turn out exactly as they said it would not since I was over reacting. Oh, because 22cans is a lying, thieving, disease, and should be expunged with fire. Yes, this shall all end well for them. After all, nerds on the internet are such an unskilful forgetful lot that never make sure the press notices.
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Post by banned on Aug 15, 2014 1:59:27 GMT
I have to tell you politely, I don't buy that line. I don't even think I need to explain why, I have actually played F2p games and I know from where I speak. You gave us Y, so, I am still waiting for X, but please don't even try to call your Y a different version of X. As I told you before I don't want to brush my teeth with toothpaste flavored denture cream and frozen yogurt flavored ice cream will still make you fat. "I have to tell you politely," Tried that for over a year. Now I want to make an example for the next scumbag that shows up to "predator" off my mates. Fool me once shame on me. Fool me twice, nope. The Internet doesn't forget so Fuck off.
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