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Post by muumipeikko on Aug 25, 2014 10:41:27 GMT
This is the problem with the PC licencing model... We have paid up front so no amount of polishing of this turd is going to bring in significant revenues where as the mobile version is designed around constant new iterations to temp people to spend them gems...
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Post by Danjal on Aug 25, 2014 16:24:18 GMT
22cans previous 'mobile sprint' lasted 6 months. The 'sprint' before that was the '5~6 month silence' to port the v1.3 version to the v2.0 mobile version. As you can see, they don't really do things as other companies do. I'd also like to point out for the record that the version numbering is a bit odd, considering that v1.0 is the "official release" usually. And works up from there. They're still in beta (or so they claim), though their product is far from feature complete so should barely be called an alpha. I think if we want to be pedantic we can point out many more such flaws in the 22cans work ethics. They're just still being bad about giving us information. I don't actually recall them ever saying it was a 6-month mobile sprint (mainly because they never told us about the mobile focus in the first place). The only confirmations I can think of that the 6 months were focusing on mobile were the now deleted explanations from George, and Peter mentioning that we were 'repeatedly told that it was mobile focus for the last 6 months'. That doesn't mean it was a single sprint, and it is incredibly likely that it's multiple sprints focusing on different aspects of the mobile game. We aren't privy to internal processes to the extent we want to be, so speculating about what constitutes a sprint or not is also kinda silly. We can assume from the one bit we do know about ( this), about what an actual sprint looks like. It's also worth noting the stuff from that document is actually implemented almost exactly as it is at current. As for version numbering, honestly that's really such a silly point to raise. Version numbers are totally irrelevant, just divide them all by 10 if it makes you happier. In terms of beta vs not-beta, I agree typically a beta of a game is considered almost feature complete, but unfortunately that is just a general/typical thing, it's not a fixed definition at all. If they want to say it is a beta, then technically it is. It's the not being clear about the state of the game that is problematic (i.e. complaints about the store page). We do see other examples where alpha/beta are applied generously to games (great example see early minecraft), so it's not just a 22cans thing. I'm merely pointing out that 22cans is rather flexible with how they handle their terminology and information and always have been. Whether you think each specific point weighs as much as the others is quite irrelevant - if you look across the board you'll notice a pattern. A pattern that points out specific preferences in their actions and a very casual nature towards what is considered honesty and truth. 22cans has at various occassions decided to 'bend' the truth and fullfill promises on technicalities - saving their own hides in the process to prevent repercussions. So that at the end of the day, nobody can call them out on not fullfilling these requirements since they can now say "But we did it, look here! We did X just like we promised." You can't pick and choose which side of the line you want to walk. And thats exactly what 22cans is trying to do. They try to get best of both worlds while trying to leave out the bits they don't really like. Which is the very reason they've gotten into this clusterfuck in the first place. (Get funding from kickstarter, subsequently abandon it, take advantage of SEA benefits but not delivering the requirements in all but the most technical of details etc etc) |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Aug 25, 2014 16:40:25 GMT
You're kidding right? Fuck the record, they're not gonna scrap another escape route. They're going to outlast us and then revise the history of events based off technicalities. We've seen this in motion the whole way. No offense to George, but he's been ridiculously complicit in pulling this since 2.1 hit before he went on vacation. Sure, he may be close to right based off a tiny nitpicky detail, but that's the kind of behavior that ruins good riddles and puzzles and amusingly enough, games. "Well based off this little piece the solution was obvious if you followed this convoluted line of reasoning." Like his 'we feel we were open about mobile development during kickstarter' posts. Those drive me nuts - true on such a surface level, but totally obfuscating the point and completely avoiding the very specific thing about mobile that angers people - that being, what was pitched and sold to people was drastically different than what it ended up being, a FTP monstrosity. Also avoiding that 22Cans outright denied it would be a FTP game when backers questioned some of the mechanics they were seeing. To be fair, though, I guess, that is kind of his job. Control the narrative. |
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Post by Danjal on Aug 25, 2014 16:47:54 GMT
To be fair, though, I guess, that is kind of his job. Control the narrative. I think that all depends on the message you want to send. Sure a company needs to control the information going out, afterall - they can't show certain early builds or concepts that might not make it into the final game (technically they should not promise features they're not even sure they're gonna bother with either... But okay). So control of information and such is relatively important in game development. This changes with crowdfunding and SEA models, as a lot of this information relies on feedback from the community. But then still some control of information is required. You'll note that 22cans uses the "corporate" method of top-secret clearance, we're not gonna tell you shit. Now here's the key point. Peter believes that he can do what he wants because there's nobody to tell him otherwise. There's no board of directors or venture capitalist that has an investment and certain rules on paper. He feels he's invincible and can just do what he wants as it is his company. Technically the backers should have some say (as per the original agreement), but that agreement is flimsy enough that he feels it can't stand up in court and nobody has decided to press that advantage or so it would seem. Ofcourse there's one thing that IS at risk. Which is the company reputation. Sure, very few PC players will buy the game from this point on - and their main target audience is mobile players that do not reference the internet for reviews so are not likely to be tainted by their negative rep. But sooner or later Peter, 22cans or anyone else involved in their dealings will need to interact with the outside world again. And what are you going to do now that you're reputation is that of someone that doesn't keep his word? Right... |
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Post by neonero on Aug 25, 2014 18:26:16 GMT
To be perfectly honest, Peter, much as I love him, does tend to throw around estimates a bit willy nilly. The truth of the matter is that at the time of that recording, and even right now, the specific perimeters of the PC sprint are still up in the air at the moment. The length of time for the PC sprint hasn't been nailed down yet (though we certainly have a window that we're shooting for). I've heard estimates ranging from one month to three months. Personally, the longer the better in my opinion, but I recognize that there's multiple spinning plates going on, not to mention that this will not be the last time the team focuses on PC. All that to say there's not really any finalized ETA or duration on the PC sprint. Not yet, at least. Source steamcommunity.com/app/232810/discussions/0/35221584594666866/#c35221584663655282 |
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Post by neonero on Aug 25, 2014 18:29:21 GMT
So maybe android focus first?
then maybe and only maybe PC focus?
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Post by Danjal on Aug 25, 2014 18:43:49 GMT
So maybe android focus first? then maybe and only maybe PC focus? An android focus would be odd. They are already trying to manage two seperate versions. It'd be a very poor business decision to add a third one in. Especially when you consider that first impressions are crucial and the android platform does not necessarily look outside its own 'store'. Anyone who is restricted to the android platform will go into Godus "untainted" by outside prejudice, as such it actually benefits them to hold that release off for as long as possible. Right now, polishing and improving the iOS version to increase retention would be their primary objective. The PC release effectively is a lost cause and purely a pair of cement shoes in terms of profitability. The android release is a wildcard and can go all directions depending on when they decide to launch and what the state of the 'game' is at that given point in time. Ultimately, unless they can get a mobile version that PC players can be satisfied with, there will never be a true PC focus. It'll be adapting mobile mechanics and rebalancing them for PC at best. |
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Post by Qetesh on Aug 25, 2014 19:08:31 GMT
If we don't get the PC sprint, the gates of all women hellfire shall open from forth from Qetesh. |
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Post by 13thGeneral on Aug 25, 2014 20:36:17 GMT
So maybe android focus first? then maybe and only maybe PC focus? An android focus would be odd. They are already trying to manage two seperate versions. It'd be a very poor business decision to add a third one in. Especially when you consider that first impressions are crucial and the android platform does not necessarily look outside its own 'store'. Anyone who is restricted to the android platform will go into Godus "untainted" by outside prejudice, as such it actually benefits them to hold that release off for as long as possible. Right now, polishing and improving the iOS version to increase retention would be their primary objective. The PC release effectively is a lost cause and purely a pair of cement shoes in terms of profitability. The android release is a wildcard and can go all directions depending on when they decide to launch and what the state of the 'game' is at that given point in time. Ultimately, unless they can get a mobile version that PC players can be satisfied with, there will never be a true PC focus. It'll be adapting mobile mechanics and rebalancing them for PC at best. That's pretty much how I see it, too - which is really unfortunate. I'm fairly certain it's exactly what will happen. |
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zeruelb
Junior Apprentice
Posts: 63 
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Post by zeruelb on Aug 26, 2014 5:29:47 GMT
Aren't there PCs out there that run on Android? Windows is nowhere stated i guess?
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Post by hardly on Aug 26, 2014 9:21:35 GMT
Every time I think 22cans can't dig the hole any deeper they break out the spades and start digging.
Pretty much every allegation we have made against 22cans is coming true. Based on the information I have seen it appears they worked on PC for 9 months ?? and launched it on SEA. Then it appears they started a 9 month mobile sprint to get iOS ready. They ported iOS version to PC and added a few mods. Now they think a 1-3 month PC sprint is going to create a legitimate PC version of GODUS. Ridiculous.
I realise George is on leave (how long?) but someone from 22cans needs to come up with a sensible plan and communicate it. I'm really starting to suspect that they have no intention of dealing with the PC game at all which to be honest isn't much of a surprise but still saddens me.
It's classic that Peter has recently complained about bad community reaction and since then his CMs have been AWOL (sorry guys but it's true) and we are back to rumour and conjecture with Peter throwing in the occasional inflammatory comment. When CMs have commented it's basically speculation.
I'm all for working together to improve GODUS but there has been no information sharing, there is no shared plan, no discussion, and the details that are out there (1 month sprint, Peter calling community bullies, no comment on analytics, no comment on hubworld) all inflame the situation. What we should be seeing is a invitation to engage.
George you are completely entitled to a holiday but I feel like the lack of information has nothing to do with that and everything to do with 22cans bunker mentality. I'm sensing an unwillingness to share even basic information and I think that is because people realise the reality does not in anyway match the promises that have been made.
As always I'm happy to be proved wrong.
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Sept 4, 2014 0:43:05 GMT
It's classic that Peter has recently complained about bad community reaction and since then his CMs have been AWOL (sorry guys but it's true) and we are back to rumour and conjecture with Peter throwing in the occasional inflammatory comment. When CMs have commented it's basically speculation. No need to apologize!  George is out on holiday and we've been swamped with a good bit of support tickets, social media, and I've been spending a good bit of my focus on Steam lately. Worry not, I or we haven't forgotten about this corner of our community though. |
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Sept 4, 2014 15:11:21 GMT
... he says, a week and a half later.  |
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Matthew Allen
Former 22Cans staff
Full Time Rock Star
Posts: 295
Pledge level: Elemental
Steam: MrMatthewAllen
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Post by Matthew Allen on Sept 4, 2014 16:24:16 GMT
... he says, a week and a half later. I like lurking you just lot sometimes.  |
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Sept 4, 2014 18:51:20 GMT
... he says, a week and a half later. ... he says, a week and a half later. I like lurking you just lot sometimes. He likes to lurk you a lot.  |
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Post by banned on Sept 8, 2014 22:03:33 GMT
"the gates of all women hellfire shall open" and good night folks! |
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