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Post by hardly on Sept 8, 2014 19:32:51 GMT
... Bad news?
What's going on guys? What next? PC sprint? Hubworld? New ages?
The silence is really boring. You've fallen off a roadmap cliff and you need to give us some hints. Don't save it all up for a road map that you release in a month. Just tell us what you are doing now and what you plan to do next.
If you don't know the answers to these questions then we should be worried. If you can't share the answers to these questions then you haven't got the message about playing possum.
The last thing we want is another update where you work for 3 months on a new mechanic, drop it on us and then we tell you we hate it. That approach hasn't worked over the last year and it won't start working now. So how about you try sharing and being open about what you are doing?
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Post by engarde on Sept 8, 2014 19:43:02 GMT
No news is company policy.
The last thing you want is almost guaranteed to be the thing they give you, if not actually guaranteed then something your petty little mind was too insufficient to imagine will replace it.
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Post by nerdyvonnerdling on Sept 8, 2014 20:35:56 GMT
Yeah, par for the course. When have they ever been forthcoming with information? Vague proclamations on occasions, sure. But actual solid info? Not so much.
Besides, at the moment, I'm not sure what kind of info they can really state that would be informative in a good way. PC sprint apparently some time on the horizon, since it's now 'autumn'. That'll take some time, and probably not address any of the outstanding issues that have been prevalent for about a year, but add a few new head-scratching mechanics that are mostly reviled. Like a sticker temple or some shit.
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Post by hardly on Sept 8, 2014 20:41:34 GMT
I think Danjal's right they will have to work on new content for mobile next, then hubworld (I wonder what's gone wrong there) and if they get on top of all that maybe a pc sprint. That's if they aren't shuttering the windows and hocking of the equipment as we speak.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 8, 2014 21:05:40 GMT
I think Danjal's right they will have to work on new content for mobile next, then hubworld (I wonder what's gone wrong there) and if they get on top of all that maybe a pc sprint. That's if they aren't shuttering the windows and hocking of the equipment as we speak. Settlements man. Think about it. Hubworld was initially intended to release around the beginning of summer, but we went all, "Wtf is this settlement nonsense?" and they went, "Oh damn, they're fucking right." And here we are. |
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zeruelb
Junior Apprentice
Posts: 63 
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Post by zeruelb on Sept 9, 2014 5:12:53 GMT
I guess Molyneux is sleeping so he can wake up and have another "brilliant" idea that has to be done asap.
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Post by hardly on Sept 9, 2014 9:31:31 GMT
This is so boring. I dont mind waiting for content but I hate waiting to hear the plan. This situation is ridiculous.
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Post by Danjal on Sept 9, 2014 9:51:08 GMT
I think Danjal's right they will have to work on new content for mobile next, then hubworld (I wonder what's gone wrong there) and if they get on top of all that maybe a pc sprint. That's if they aren't shuttering the windows and hocking of the equipment as we speak. Settlements man. Think about it. Hubworld was initially intended to release around the beginning of summer, but we went all, "Wtf is this settlement nonsense?" and they went, "Oh damn, they're fucking right." And here we are. There's another problem with Hubworlds that could be a likely culprit. We've heard they say they've "played" hubworlds in the office, implying that barring tweaks, glitches or balance issues it "works" to a certain degree. However we've yet to hear anything about how they intend to get the various people to connect to eachother. It is entirely possible that this in and of itself is causing more problems than initially expected. Afterall, how are you going to connect all these players together, if you can't get it to work in a proper fashion. Just randomly slotting people together as they become available or based on location wouldn't do it, since you're limited to hubs of 4, there's a very tiny window of connectivity to work with. I think they might well have created a significant obstacle there by designing it in such a way, as opposed to instanced based matchmaking from moment to moment. Yet they want to make things persistent so... Think about it - what have we seen or heard about hubworlds actually working 'online', in a multiplayer format as it was described to us? When does 22cans go silent? They go silent when they have no definitive answers, because a mechanic isn't thoroughly developed yet and things might still change... I'd say that given 22cans trackrecord of leaving mechanics half-broken, the focus on settlements is more of a "well we need to deliver some content before they are going for the pitchforks again" rather than a "this is more important than hubworlds" decision. A guess which back up with the half-rushed release of settlements, with some very buggy and untested mechanics tied to it. (I can't help but note how the settlement mechanic overlooks some of the upcoming changes that tie into future ages...) The settlements solution seems very much a "we need this to work within the current environment so we can provide them with content and an update"-style solution. |
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Post by Crumpy Six on Sept 9, 2014 10:59:44 GMT
PC sprint is out of the window while they work on fixing the bugs in the mobile and trying to get Hubworld working, I expect. Engaging with the PC crowd is a filler activity for George when the support tickets aren't piling up.
22Cans release strategy for the PC seems to be make lots of promises, miss all the deadlines, bleat on about iterative design and unexpected glitches and polishing stuff up, then we'll suddenly get a release out of nowhere full of unexpected content like it's a big reveal of "ta-da! this is why it took so long, we were doing all this cool stuff!" except the "cool stuff" is all broken and nobody wanted it in the first place.
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Post by earlparvisjam on Sept 9, 2014 15:45:24 GMT
Settlements man. Think about it. Hubworld was initially intended to release around the beginning of summer, but we went all, "Wtf is this settlement nonsense?" and they went, "Oh damn, they're fucking right." And here we are. There's another problem with Hubworlds that could be a likely culprit. We've heard they say they've "played" hubworlds in the office, implying that barring tweaks, glitches or balance issues it "works" to a certain degree. However we've yet to hear anything about how they intend to get the various people to connect to eachother. It is entirely possible that this in and of itself is causing more problems than initially expected. Afterall, how are you going to connect all these players together, if you can't get it to work in a proper fashion. Just randomly slotting people together as they become available or based on location wouldn't do it, since you're limited to hubs of 4, there's a very tiny window of connectivity to work with. I think they might well have created a significant obstacle there by designing it in such a way, as opposed to instanced based matchmaking from moment to moment. Yet they want to make things persistent so... Think about it - what have we seen or heard about hubworlds actually working 'online', in a multiplayer format as it was described to us? When does 22cans go silent? They go silent when they have no definitive answers, because a mechanic isn't thoroughly developed yet and things might still change... I'd say that given 22cans trackrecord of leaving mechanics half-broken, the focus on settlements is more of a "well we need to deliver some content before they are going for the pitchforks again" rather than a "this is more important than hubworlds" decision. A guess which back up with the half-rushed release of settlements, with some very buggy and untested mechanics tied to it. (I can't help but note how the settlement mechanic overlooks some of the upcoming changes that tie into future ages...) The settlements solution seems very much a "we need this to work within the current environment so we can provide them with content and an update"-style solution. I've ranted off and on about the fact that this is an mmo that has no online features after well over a year of development. At this point, 22Cans would be better off scrapping Hubworld and focusing on trying to make Homeowrld into something worth playing. I have more faith that they could shift it to a series of single player scenarios/maps (like Populous or B&W) than trust that they'll get Hubworld functioning within the next year. I don't think they have the wherewithal to do an online multiplayer game with significant player interaction. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 9, 2014 16:06:53 GMT
I agree, even if they can get hubworlds to work (something I have my doubts about), it will become an afterthought. A bit of a side-dish or collection of minigames with no real tie into the main game itself. Which is inevitably going to be homeworld.
Though like with so many other things, 22cans has made promises. In this particular case they have the promise to their God of Gods, the winner of Curiosity.
What are they going to end up doing with that if they were to come to the realization that Hubworlds isn't going to be a thing.
I'd say drop hubworlds and focus all available hands on homeworld, thats where the game is, thats what you want to flesh out.
And if that means letting the idea of God of Gods go for now. Then so be it.
I mean, if what they say is true - and given the nature of hubworld being disconnected from homeworld - they can always pick that up at a later point in time. If they're going to be developing "for years to come" anyway. Then what is the harm in officially postponing hubworlds untill later and fully focusing all efforts on the core game?
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 9, 2014 16:31:23 GMT
I'm not sure I fully agree with you on the way the settlement revamp was approached. I do find myself seeing the very real possibility of networking issues with the game, but I still think that given what little we've heard from them, that some of the Homeworld mechanics are intended to carry over in some ways to Hubworld, so getting them right takes priority over half-assing them in a semi-competitive environment where people would further rip them to shreds. The thing we need to keep in mind is that, unless they change their mind, the intent is for Hubworld to launch first on PC, between ourselves, and then be introduced to iOS users.
I think they still mean to stand by that, as we received 2.2 prior to iOS users, and we're working with the opt-in tests ahead of the iOS users. We somewhat seriously pick at this as us testing for the iOS users, but I think there's some slight truth to wanting to work with us over the iOS audience in some respects. Might only be because we actually give a load more feedback outside of analytics, but who knows. It's not like we'd believe them if they repeated the claim of wanting to make a decent PC game for us.
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Post by earlparvisjam on Sept 9, 2014 16:42:37 GMT
I'm not sure I fully agree with you on the way the settlement revamp was approached. I do find myself seeing the very real possibility of networking issues with the game, but I still think that given what little we've heard from them, that some of the Homeworld mechanics are intended to carry over in some ways to Hubworld, so getting them right takes priority over half-assing them in a semi-competitive environment where people would further rip them to shreds. The thing we need to keep in mind is that, unless they change their mind, the intent is for Hubworld to launch first on PC, between ourselves, and then be introduced to iOS users. I think they still mean to stand by that, as we received 2.2 prior to iOS users, and we're working with the opt-in tests ahead of the iOS users. We somewhat seriously pick at this as us testing for the iOS users, but I think there's some slight truth to wanting to work with us over the iOS audience in some respects. Might only be because we actually give a load more feedback outside of analytics, but who knows. It's not like we'd believe them if they repeated the claim of wanting to make a decent PC game for us. The thing is that we'd believe them if we ever got more than claims. So far there has been nothing done that reflects any sort of serious thought toward the pc side of things. Even the Pit of Doom is a quick fix when you look at the mechanics that surround it. They just reworked an existing temple and tweaked its build eventing to be a "sacrifice" functionality that removed the villager and incremented a variable when it triggered. It's really showy but probably only took a couple days of work to implement. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 9, 2014 16:43:41 GMT
There's value to what you're saying - though thats mostly based on recent events.
My judgement on the postponing of hubworld is based on events from well before the iOS launch and subsequent removal of NDA regarding apple's "limited launch" model.
Hubworlds were supposed to come quite some time ago, and have been postponed numerous times since.
I have a hard time seeing that they've been working on the Settlement update/revamp for all that time, especially regarding the other information going around about this.
While it is definitely true that the current priority towards content over hubworld is probably related to the iOS release and the need to increase player retention.
The original delay of hubworlds (which reportedly have been "playable" in office for months now) wouldn't be related to the settlement update.
Where does that leave them right now? With a disfunctional hubworld mechanic and a lack of over content to serve towards retention of players.
As for releasing hubworld on PC first - if they can get it working on one platform, they can get it working on the other. (Barring unforseen problems with mobile infrastructure)
And if the interest is there, hubworld would directly pose as a renewable source of content for the playerbase.
Take a look around, the games that sell best are often those that rely on online aspects. Be it social media integration or (competative) instanced gameplay.
I'd imagine that if they could get hubworld working, they would've pushed it out ages ago.
Any subsequent alterations made to homeworld that would affect hubworld wouldn't be that big of an issue to alter.
Considering how much they've reworked on the homeworld so far - its not exactly something they seem to worry about.
I'm willing to bet that Hubworld could solve the majority of their retention problems. If only they could get it to work...
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 9, 2014 16:56:26 GMT
I'm not sure I fully agree with you on the way the settlement revamp was approached. I do find myself seeing the very real possibility of networking issues with the game, but I still think that given what little we've heard from them, that some of the Homeworld mechanics are intended to carry over in some ways to Hubworld, so getting them right takes priority over half-assing them in a semi-competitive environment where people would further rip them to shreds. The thing we need to keep in mind is that, unless they change their mind, the intent is for Hubworld to launch first on PC, between ourselves, and then be introduced to iOS users. I think they still mean to stand by that, as we received 2.2 prior to iOS users, and we're working with the opt-in tests ahead of the iOS users. We somewhat seriously pick at this as us testing for the iOS users, but I think there's some slight truth to wanting to work with us over the iOS audience in some respects. Might only be because we actually give a load more feedback outside of analytics, but who knows. It's not like we'd believe them if they repeated the claim of wanting to make a decent PC game for us. The thing is that we'd believe them if we ever got more than claims. So far there has been nothing done that reflects any sort of serious thought toward the pc side of things. Even the Pit of Doom is a quick fix when you look at the mechanics that surround it. They just reworked an existing temple and tweaked its build eventing to be a "sacrifice" functionality that removed the villager and incremented a variable when it triggered. It's really showy but probably only took a couple days of work to implement. I know right? It makes working my position a huge pain because I completely follow where you're all coming from, and the only reason I don't echo you all is because I think there's enough echoing of these sentiments to go around the solar system probably a few hundred times, making it incredibly boring to do during these awkward intervening moments between updates. If I see an update and it's not up to par, I'll pick it apart (as I did and have done with 2.1, alongside everyone else), but if it's going back over what's been done? I just don't see the point in it. What's done is done and it really fucking sucks, but that's all the more reason to ditch the game until next update or pick apart what's there and try to provide some possibly ignored feedback/suggestions (and then also ditch it for awhile). Droning on about the bullshit that's been done and said won't change that it was bullshit. All we can try to do is hold them accountable to not shit all over the place some more. >_> There's value to what you're saying - though thats mostly based on recent events. My judgement on the postponing of hubworld is based on events from well before the iOS launch and subsequent removal of NDA regarding apple's "limited launch" model. Hubworlds were supposed to come quite some time ago, and have been postponed numerous times since. I have a hard time seeing that they've been working on the Settlement update/revamp for all that time, especially regarding the other information going around about this. While it is definitely true that the current priority towards content over hubworld is probably related to the iOS release and the need to increase player retention. The original delay of hubworlds (which reportedly have been "playable" in office for months now) wouldn't be related to the settlement update. I'm not sure I follow? As far as I've been able to tell this would entirely fit with the original delays. They want to get mechanics that will appear in some form there right, these mechanics are found in Homeworld and we're getting to test them and we don't like them, so they revisit them trying to get them right, this way they'll also work in Hubworld right. It's not solely settlements, those were just the most recent focus, it's a number of the other parts of the game like sculpting, collecting belief, when certain abilities are unlocked and so on. At least, that would be my speculation. |
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Post by Danjal on Sept 9, 2014 17:09:06 GMT
Hubworlds was originally scheduled to release 4 weeks after GDC, which was in march this year.
They've been delayed ever since. So thats going into the 5th month of delay.
It makes no sense that they delayed them based on features found in homeworld - when they had a playable version of hubworld at that time.
Hubworld 'worked' - they played it (or so they said). Going off of the fact that hubworld was played at that point in time.
The most logical reason for not releasing it would be because they couldn't get the connectivity working properly.
Secondary reasons would be related to the (then under NDA) mobile release version.
While the priority right now is with generating content for the iOS release, this wasn't the case in march...
Atleast not publicly. At that point in time their "flagship reveal" was hubworld.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 9, 2014 17:28:16 GMT
Hubworld can work with Homeworld mechanics but not be in quite the state they want it yet though. It's like what we have now, sure it's playable, but it's not all that fun. Introducing Hubworld with stuff like what we have now, but merely multiplayer, doesn't seem like it'd be much better, does it?
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Post by Danjal on Sept 9, 2014 17:33:48 GMT
You're entirely correct. However thats a judgement based on information available right now. When we know that even on the iOS platform people are struggling with the lack of content.
Back in march their public aim was to release hubworld as soon as possible, making it the "crown jewel" pushing Godus over the magical 50% marker.
Supposedly the game mechanic that would tie all the other together.
Given how 22cans' priority always has been to put the component pieces in place - and only start in balancing and polishing aswell as making it function together afterwards. I don't see why they would work differently here.
The sudden change in focus is out of place when compared to their progression up to that point. While it is entirely possible that you're correct and that they realized that the lack of content would become a problem. It seems unlikely that this dawned on them at that point in time.
Suffice it to say, its all speculation unless we can get confirmation from one of the cans, George or Matthew regarding this.
But I'd put my money on their inability to get the infrastructure to work.
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Post by Gmr Leon on Sept 9, 2014 17:37:29 GMT
You're entirely correct. However thats a judgement based on information available right now. When we know that even on the iOS platform people are struggling with the lack of content. Back in march their public aim was to release hubworld as soon as possible, making it the "crown jewel" pushing Godus over the magical 50% marker. Supposedly the game mechanic that would tie all the other together. Given how 22cans' priority always has been to put the component pieces in place - and only start in balancing and polishing aswell as making it function together afterwards. I don't see why they would work differently here. The sudden change in focus is out of place when compared to their progression up to that point. While it is entirely possible that you're correct and that they realized that the lack of content would become a problem. It seems unlikely that this dawned on them at that point in time. Suffice it to say, its all speculation unless we can get confirmation from one of the cans, George or Matthew regarding this. But I'd put my money on their inability to get the infrastructure to work. Yeah. I'd put it more on infrastructure and mechanical issues, but that's a load of speculation on my part based off a side comment from Matthew a month or two ago. I'd put up the quote in this post as I'm writing this, but Steam's community section seems to be having issues for some reason. I'll edit it in as soon as it gets back up. Here we go: There's still a good bit of Hubworld that's entirely reliant on the foundational gameplay established in the stages of development we're at right now (sorting out Settlements, balancing, etc.). So there'll still be a trickle down affect with the work that we accomplish in the Settlement revamp and the PC sprint that'll really have an impact on all forms of the game, be it Hubworld or the Homeworld. These next couple of weeks and months are a really pivotal moment in the game's development right now I feel, but I'm really looking forward to jumping in and really getting our hands dirty and diving head first into some big improvements to the core of the gameplay, regardless of which world that gameplay is in. |
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Post by banned on Sept 12, 2014 0:00:37 GMT
... Bad news? ...PC sprint? ... "Over the last few weeks, we’ve been working on completely overhauling our save game system for Godus on both Steam and iOS." "That’s right, swamps are no longer the preserve of your godly abilities but now appear organically within your Homeworld, adding an additional layer of challenge when commanding your Followers to spread out and explore the land." Massive PC sprint we were supposed to wait for was, exactly as expected, "add stuff from the mobile cash shop to PC" and they confirm the definition of "challenge" is "takes longer". But I am sure they didn't actually do a single thing for the PC version because I was so negative it depressed them. |
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