Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 5, 2014 22:00:10 GMT
What if somebody started a Kickstarter with the intention of teaching the backers how to develop a game from start to finish? So I mean the project is not making the game, the project is teaching people how to make the game. The end product would off course still be a game, but the main result would be a lot of people would have gained important knowledge about the whole process from start to finish. Not everybody could follow all of it at the same speed obviously. Some people might be able to learn it all while others are barely able to follow things at the start. Regardless of how much you already know or how much you learn there would be a significant community of people who could help eachother learn more and progress. And all the information would remain so people could continue to learn at their own speed even after the project was completed. People might form groups to start their own projects even. What do you think?
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Dawnreaver
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Diablo III - Reaper of Souls, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Thief
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Post by Dawnreaver on Mar 5, 2014 23:56:25 GMT
It is a noble cause ... but to be honest if you want to learn anything these days ( at least the fundamentals) go to youtube.( have a look for BurgZerg Arcade) The problem that I see is that the questions people have would be so diverse that it is impossible to serve them all e.g. Engines ( Cocos2D, Corona, Unity 3D, Unreal Engine 3.0, CryEngine 3.0, Game Maker), Scripting Languages ( C#, Java Script, Lua, Objective C#, Game Maker Language, HTML5), Programming Languages( C, C++), Modelling Tools ( Blender, Maya, Max, Zbrush, Mudbox, Cinema 4D, MilkShape 3D), Textureing Tools (Photoshop, Corel Draw, Gimp), Revison Control( Perforce, GitHub), Audio Software, Plannin Software ... please continue the examples yourself. This is a lot of things to gather and compile. Most of the stuff is already done in the respective fields, you just need to have the determination and the money to get it all. Let's put this all aside: who is going to supervise the compilation? The next thing is that there are constantly new trends, so how do you keep it up to date? This might sound a little disheartening Now the next bit is only my personal view and I'm not trying to step on anyones toes: but do we want everyone to make games? Don't get me wrong. I support people wanting to get into game development! Hell I spend the last 11 years of my life to finally get close to where I want to be. But you have to work really hard. And unfortunately most games that are developed by hobby devs are far below average in regards to quality. Have you looked into the App Stores larely? All a result because game development is more accessible than ever. And I'm not even going to start to speak about what people motivates to make games. My job right now makes me work on games, that make my heart bleed when I fix, debug and somewhere down the line publish them. Seriously if it was my company I wouldn't have published any of those games because the quality is so far below from what I was trained to do. To bring this to an end: Yes live your dream, do it. I don't regret anything. Not the time spend, the hardship, the (bloody) expensive school I went to, the disillusion after finishing the education in regards to the job market and getting a job after spending an entire year next to my 7am - 5pm job to build up a portfolio that finally got me a job in games. But to be honest everyone will have to deal with the reality of making games. So if you want to make awesome high quality games ( models, story, level design, game design, sound, textures) go for it it's all out there! And maybe a kickstarter is a good Idea to help people who cannot afford the education at private specialised schools but don't do it if you think you can make games by sitting down for 1/2h every day. Ok. Please feel free to take my statement apart I welcome the discussion
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 6, 2014 1:07:50 GMT
Well off course you are right. There are lots of different tools out there each with their own ways and pros and cons. And you can find a lot of info on google and youtube and stackoverflow and lots of other places. There are so many options it's hard to find a good place to start. And when you do know where to start then where do you go from there.
My suggestion was not to provide a course on everything but rather to pick a few specific tools that would get the job done and stick to those. I guess it would all depend on the people leading the project which tools those would be. Or perhaps they could suggest a few options that would be suitable and have the kickstarters vote on those. Likewise the type of game could be voted upon and discussed beforehand.
How much money would it take for a handful of developers to take on a project like this. It would probably take at least 2 years maybe 3 to produce a something decent while keeping the main focus on communication with the backers and maintaining an educational structure.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 25, 2014 1:28:23 GMT
Bumping this thread up to see if anyone has some fresh insights or things they'd like to add.
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arondc
Wannabe
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Post by arondc on May 25, 2014 21:59:12 GMT
I'm teaching programming (and making tutorial videos for beginning java programmers) to absolute beginners at my university and I really think a "game development" course wouldn't help much there as game development is far harder than just application development. The thing is: Game programming was never easier than today. Today you just have to take Unity 3d (that is absolutely free) and work through 2-3 very basic tutorials to get your feet into basic game development without a very steep learning curve. I hardly believe someone who would like to learn how to program a game through an online course isn't smart enough to google that by him/her self. Unity wasn't the tool of my choice a long long time because it has a workflow you have to learn and some restrictions (without being very restrictive) you have to accept. Me coming from Java development (and application development in first hand) didn't appeal that approach as I always feeled like being pushed into some boundaries that I just could find my way into (and thus resulting in me learning the usage of LibGDX a multiplattform Java/Android Library for game development, that takes a lot of tedious tasks from your shoulders). I would still recommend Unity to starters (without needing some kickstarter funded tutorial series) as it is easy to learn (In the meantime I got into the workflow and its reeeeeaaallly easy!), has a huuuge helpful community and a big collection of ressources. TL;DR I don't see the need of a kickstarter campaign dedicated to teaching game programming. If one hasn't enough endurance to learn basic programming by himself (books, online tutorials, workshops) he won't ever be able to get into game programming. There are a lot of good Tutorial (Videos,Text tutorials, Books) to start with (as game programming is based on application programming and enhancing it with real time behaviour). edit: Just as i posted this answer there was some article posted by gamedev.net on facebook about getting into unity with a simple 2d game ( and learning the basics of unity 2d with it ) : pixelnest.io/tutorials/2d-game-unity/ (you have to click on "next" after scrolling down to get to the table of contents for this tutorial)
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on May 26, 2014 4:55:27 GMT
Okay so there are people who obviously don't like the idea such as arondc and Dawnreaver. But I do recall people mentioning that they backed Godus because they were hoping to learn some intimate knowledge of developing a game like that. So are you saying that you wouldn't ever back a project like I described? Would anyone be willing to back a project like this for say the price of what you'd normally pay for a game? (you'd get the game at the end of the project I would imagine)
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arondc
Wannabe
Posts: 29
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I like: bunnies
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Post by arondc on May 26, 2014 8:43:53 GMT
Ba'al: You got me wrong. It isn't that I don't like the idea. I just think it isn't really neccessary. The intimate knowledge of developing a game is also something I wished with backing godus but maybe my expectations were others as those of someone who thought he would learn to program. I expected to get "insider" infos on how the team is arranged and deeper details about their work with scrum and how their assets/code come into life. Something like Maxis has done in its developer blogs when they described their techniques they used for SimCity. I would happily pay for good educational programs (if the quality is above the quality of the things you get in the net for free)(I bought the game "Influent" because of that) And there are some very good kickstarter projects that revolve around teaching the basics of algorithmics that can be very helpful if you want to learn programming at all (one for kids but also one of the best I found codemonkeyplanet.com/ but as i said there are plenty of games/projects that aim to teach algorithmics).
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