Lord Ba'al
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I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 9, 2014 21:45:38 GMT
Is there by any chance an English major, teacher or professor on this forum? My girlfriend is driving me insane with her non-logic. She makes sentences like "My mood and mentality changes like the weather anymore." Now disregarding the fact that "changes" should have been "change", I have a problem with the way the word "anymore" is used there. I have just had an extensive discussion with her about this but she is very stubborn. She brought up a whole lot of examples she found online but in all of those the word "anymore" was used correctly such as in "You don't love me anymore". She simply won't accept my opinion that this a very different use of the word "anymore". Urban dictionary has an example saying "Girl scout cookies are horrible anymore." To me this just sounds wrong. I feel inclined to say "Sentences with the word anymore are used horribly anymore." Can anyone shed some light on this?
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Post by morsealworth on Mar 10, 2014 6:22:29 GMT
Dat ain't linguistics. 'tese are psychology and cybernetics. Do you know what heuristic is? Heuristic is a shortcut, a "what should we do if it becomes like this" kind of rule, never supported by actual theoretical base. There may be that base in the reasons for the heuristic to appear, but it becomes totally unrelated to it shortly. When did you last think why are you wearing underwear? I bet never. Because wearing underwear is dictated by social heuristic called "moral" and it doesn't require any basis. Why am I talking about it? The fact is, majority of women use these to live. They can try and use abstract thinking, but they do it with difficulties, and, more importantly, abstract thinking is always slower. And when you can get the result faster relying on most ancient and basic kind of thinking your right hemisphere provides, why not? It's not like women get their brain lateralisation as early as men do, they get their sexual system (mainly genitalia) prioritized instead. So she uses heuristics for using the word "anymore" and will not listen to any logic behind it. That's why, your argument shoyld be not what the word is, but how it is used correcrly with examples. Lots of examples, if you want her to learn a new, correct heuristic. But first you have to become an authority in itself in her eyes, because she won't listen to you otherwise. P.S. Poll ain't working.
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 13:40:46 GMT
Not everyone wants to talk or post like they are writing a report for the English teach and many actual writers of books today have their character talk more colorfully often to make a point and add variety to spice things up.
I consider it to be a correct use of a vernacular style of phrasing. The quote from the Girl Scouts came from urban dictionary and supports my theory that what once was slang has now become acceptable. The fact is everyone knew what I mean when they read that post supports this. I also have a pet peeve with grammar Nazis on forums because I am not at work nor filling out a government form, I posting a forum for FUN. I have said You Da Bomb plenty of times and no spelling or grammar Nazi has ever attacked that because if they did they would come off a jerk and they know it.
Whether you call those things you put on your feet to play sports in.......sneakers, tennies, kicks, athletic shoes or any other generally used term, it is correct. The phrase I used is the same and as urban dictionary has shown has become a part of accepted society today.
As for the poll, it is slanted to get votes in one way by the wording of the two options. You need a third one saying the phrase is an acceptable form of communication and I understand it's context.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 10, 2014 14:20:40 GMT
The poll is working, you have to click on the sentence of your choosing, not on the coloured bars.
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 14:23:45 GMT
I can't vote on that poll, because neither choice is the one I would use.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 10, 2014 14:24:13 GMT
Not everyone wants to talk or post like they are writing a report for the English teach and many actual writers of books today have their character talk more colorfully often to make a point and add variety to spice things up. I consider it to be a correct use of a vernacular style of phrasing. The quote from the Girl Scouts came from urban dictionary and supports my theory that what once was slang has now become acceptable. The fact is everyone knew what I mean when they read that post supports this. I also have a pet peeve with grammar Nazis on forums because I am not at work nor filling out a government form, I posting a forum for FUN. I have said You Da Bomb plenty of times and no spelling or grammar Nazi has ever attacked that because if they did they would come off a jerk and they know it. Whether you call those things you put on your feet to play sports in.......sneakers, tennies, kicks, athletic shoes or any other generally used term, it is correct. The phrase I used is the same and as urban dictionary has shown has become a part of accepted society today. As for the poll, it is slanted to get votes in one way by the wording of the two options. You need a third one saying the phrase is an acceptable form of communication and I understand it's context. Don't get your panties in a bunch. The poll is just fine as it is. And as for your statement that "everyone knew what you meant" that remains to be seen and is exactly what this thread is about.
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 15:19:38 GMT
Fair enough...........nothing bunched here, but I disagree that the poll is fine. I think there is a gray area to the very black and white poll missing.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 10, 2014 15:38:48 GMT
Fair enough...........nothing bunched here, but I disagree that the poll is fine. I think there is a gray area to the very black and white poll missing. Obviously your choice in the poll would be the opposite one from what I chose. So go and vote already.
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 15:54:18 GMT
I don't think you understand that I am saying there is a difference from "correct" and acceptable. The phrase is acceptable although it might not be considered proper English as you learn in school. This is why I requested a third option. I am just going to wait and see what others say and see how the chips fall.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 10, 2014 16:10:55 GMT
There, I edited the poll. Please vote by ticking the appropriate checkbox.
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Casinha
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Post by Casinha on Mar 10, 2014 16:47:02 GMT
I have no idea what "Girl scout cookies are horribly anymore" is supposed to communicate. Is it missing a verb? Using the incorrect adjective? Is it trying to say that something is or isn't? If someone said this to me I would probably just look at them blankly wondering 'What on earth did I just hear?' Got no problem with people butchering grammar (although I do have my own pet peeves, but I recognise them as unimportant) so long as I'm able to understand what's trying to be said, but I honestly don't understand that sentence. In fact, if someone could open my eyes to the meaning, that would be awesome.
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Lord Ba'al
Supreme Deity
Posts: 6,260
Pledge level: Half a Partner
I like: Cats; single malt Scotch; Stargate; Amiga; fried potatoes; retro gaming; cheese; snickers; sticky tape.
I don't like: Dimples in the bottom of scotch bottles; Facebook games masquerading as godgames.
Steam: stonelesscutter
GOG: stonelesscutter
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Post by Lord Ba'al on Mar 10, 2014 16:49:00 GMT
I have no idea what "Girl scout cookies are horribly anymore" is supposed to communicate. Is it missing a verb? Using the incorrect adjective? Is it trying to say that something is or isn't? If someone said this to me I would probably just look at them blankly wondering 'What on earth did I just hear?' Got no problem with people butchering grammar (although I do have my own pet peeves, but I recognise them as unimportant) so long as I'm able to understand what's trying to be said, but I honestly don't understand that sentence. In fact, if someone could open my eyes to the meaning, that would be awesome. That is EXACTLY what I mean!
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 16:56:00 GMT
I have no idea what "Girl scout cookies are horribly anymore" is supposed to communicate. Is it missing a verb? Using the incorrect adjective? Is it trying to say that something is or isn't? If someone said this to me I would probably just look at them blankly wondering 'What on earth did I just hear?' Got no problem with people butchering grammar (although I do have my own pet peeves, but I recognise them as unimportant) so long as I'm able to understand what's trying to be said, but I honestly don't understand that sentence. In fact, if someone could open my eyes to the meaning, that would be awesome. If you look at the word "anymore" as "nowadays" it means Girl Scout cookies are horrible nowadays. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=anymore
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stuhacking
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Post by stuhacking on Mar 10, 2014 17:05:25 GMT
Here is my belief as a speaker of English, and reader of books: Language is fluid, words adapt to new meanings, sentence structure is not set in stone. Some of the greatest works of poetry and prose have thrown old ideas out in favour of new dynamism and expressibility. We should embrace the change and nurture the future of communication. but using `anymore' like that is an abomination! (and urbandictionary is not the first place I would turn to for linguistic example )
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 17:09:33 GMT
Here is my belief as a speaker of English, and reader of books: Language is fluid, words adapt to new meanings, sentence structure is not set in stone. Some of the greatest works of poetry and prose have thrown old ideas out in favour of new dynamism and expressibility. We should embrace the change and nurture the future of communication. but using `anymore' like that is an abomination! (and urbandictionary is not the first place I would turn to for linguistic example ) Egad, I think my BF has a twin. LOL.
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Post by morsealworth on Mar 10, 2014 21:04:32 GMT
Goddesses condemn. The word "anymore" is comprised too obviously to mean anything other that "any more than this". There are times when Japanese use the word instead of "even more", but it's because both would be それ以上 in Japanese and nuances aren't alwaqys available to people who can't even say "vi" syllable without special training. But shame to any native English speaker who can betray his own language like that. It's betrayal of one's history and betrayal of one's conscious mind, as it is based on verbal expressions. And who can believe in a human who betrays their own self?
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 21:19:10 GMT
If we all spoke like English teachers, the world would be a boring place. I think non native English speakers learn proper book English and so don't really grasp the nuances of cultural slangs and vernacular styles. I also not only speak English, I speak American. I would never try to tell a British person their words or phrases are wrong because they are speaking British and not just English. I find it surprising that if it is acceptable to be used in general society then why it is considered wrong to use on a forum.
Urban Dictionary is a perfect example to use in this case we were are not debating if it is proper English but if it is an accepted use of the phrase in society.
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Post by morsealworth on Mar 10, 2014 21:25:02 GMT
Urban Dictionary would be the last place to talk about "socially accepted". Simply because there's no sociak control of acceptability. And if everyone talked proper English, it wouldn't be beoring as it wouldn't lose any of colorful words and phraseologisms. It would simply way more understandable.
Ad slang argument doesn't work here because there is a diffenece between slang and speech errors. Slang is a example of (language) evolution that has its own etymology, speech errors are result of personal developmental disorder either for internal or external reasons. It is a basic, trivial example of disontogenesis.
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Post by Qetesh on Mar 10, 2014 22:01:10 GMT
Urban Dictionary would be the last place to talk about "socially accepted". Simply because there's no sociak control of acceptability. And if everyone talked proper English, it wouldn't be beoring as it wouldn't lose any of colorful words and phraseologisms. It would simply way more understandable. I am going to agree to disagree on both parts of that. I know plenty of people that look up UD for words and phrases. I like it because it is made by people for people and not just by teachers for students. The word ain't was not in the English dictionary for years because of this type of argument but it became so socially acceptable that it is now. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ain't
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Post by carcosa on Mar 10, 2014 23:41:03 GMT
Hmmm....................
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